A Vision for Transit in Jacksonville

[9a is my backyard]

First of all, fantastic article. The way it's written and formatted will make it very accessible to those who aren't a part of the MetJax choir that I would imagine makes up most of the readers for the average article.

Unfortunately, I think the city would have to have, a the very least, construction started on a new convention facility before converting the prime osborn. I'm not sure how that works with JTA's current schedule for the transit center, but I imagine it would push things back at least 3-5 years. I agree, I doesn't seem like the prime osborn brings in much business, but we need to prove that factually first (a comparison with the hyatt would be fantastic, especially if we could prove there were enough openings in the hyatt's schedule to accommodate whatever business would be lost in the transition period to a new convention center).  Ultimately, the city is going to see every event at the prime osborn as revenue at a time when revenue is tough to come by. Could we make the arguement that a new convention center would bring in additional business?  I just don't see city leaders jumping on board a plan that would leave us without a convention center and, as a result, with no way to access the lucritive market of conventions, even if the prime osborn is in itself a hinderance to attracting conventions, which we could argue. 

Plus, given how long it took for construction to start on the courthouse, I think we would have to have construction on a new convention center before the city would be willng to release the prime osborn back to it's intended purpose!

[thelakelander]

Okay help me out here people...  Mr. Crescimbeni wrote me back and told me that he read the article.  Here's what he asked me and I could use some help on what to answer back...

1)  Am I to conclude that "refit" for Amtrak is synonymous with "demolition" of existing Convention Center
exhibition space?

Immediately? No. However, eventually its best for both the convention and transportation center's future to relocate the convention facility to an area that will allow it to grow and succeed.

What you see in both this presentation and JTA's plan is a long range master plan that could take more than a decade to put in place.  Certain components, like Amtrak, can come back with the convention center still in tact.  However, over time, the convention facility will have to be removed if we want our tax dollars to be utilized in a fashion that creates two efficient public facilities.  If we want both to fail and remain substandard, leaving the convention center at the terminal is the way to go.

2)  Where would you propose that events requiring extensive exhibition space be held?"  If you are proposing to demolish exhibition space, your tweaking of the JTA Mater Plan had best include an answer to that question as
well - or I wouldn't consider it a viable one.

This idea ties three major city redevelopment sites together.  Those sites are the new county courthouse, the existing Bay Street courthouse and the train terminal together.  The long term idea is that once the courthouse relocates to LaVilla, the Bay Street property becomes the site of a new improved convention facility.  This location provides our convention center will several complementing factors that any center will need as a minimum to be a success.  That is:

1. A convention center hotel already in place in the form of the Hyatt.
2. A entertainment district already in place in the form of East Bay Street and the Florida Theater.
3. Connectivity with the urban core in the form of the riverwalk.
4. Restaurant and dining facilities in the form of the Landing.

Building a new or expanding the convention center is much more complex than adding an exhibition hall box.  The actual construction of a convention box should be the least of Jacksonville's concerns.  Connectivity, synergy and integration with complementing uses to build a compact walkable district should be the highest priority with this issue.

The thing no one discusses is the fact that if the convention center remains in LaVilla, these things will have to be provided and most likely incentivized to put our convention center in a situation in where it can efficiently compete against centers in peer cities that already offer these assets.  We can certainly go that route, but why subsidize new complementing development to compete against those who have already invested in these uses within the downtown core?

With that said, once the Prime Osborn is out of the train terminal, you then have the opportunity to completely use that site for what it was originally designed for.  That is a compact, well organized intermodal transportation complex.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Well guys and girls sounds great looks great and makes sense, but that's the problem.

[mtraininjax]

Lake, you and Ock do know how to kill some trees.

Can we please build the courthouse before throwing around new taxpayer money? With this administration losing money (we know of) and probably (losing money we will never hear of), would it not be best to delay spending with Peyton and his robots? I mean, these guys would not know a plan if it was a 10lb book hitting them in the head.

[thelakelander]

Nobody said that a full blown transportation center will be built overnight.  However, you have to plan regardless of budget concerns and take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.  If we had planned for viable mass transit options over the last few years, maybe we would have received more stimulus dollars than what came our way.  If we can plan before throwing money at our problems, we'll save a lot in the long run.

[mtraininjax]

If we can plan before throwing money at our problems, we'll save a lot in the long run.

Corrine Delivers.....!!!!! 

[thelakelander]

If the city were smart, they would push to see if she can back her slogan.

[Ocklawaha]

If the city were smart, they would push to see if she can back her slogan.

Using "smart" and "the city," IE: Jacksonville, in the same sentence could prove to be a disaster, however if WE at MJ set up a nice report, I'd E:Mail it to John Mica, Brown and Crenshaw. This is just the sort of "thing" Mica asked me to send him at his private residence. "Bob, get these people to present some plans, ANYTHING is open for consideration, they're going to spend it anyway so I'd like to see us put Florida in the lead. Send me something, anything."

You JTA types, this is what John told me before that downtown women in transportation meeting. Michael, Scott, James, Mike, Victoria, Steve and Suraya... SEND ME SOMETHING, let's roll... Streetcar Study? Commuter Rail?, BRT?, Skyway? Please, SOMETHING!

OCKLAWAHA

[ralpho37]

Hey new update about my conversations with the city council.  Believe it or not, I just got an e-mail from none other than Mayor Peyton!  He said he forwarded my messages about our transportation center to Bill Killingsworth, director of Planning and Development Department.  The article has apparently caught the right people's attention, so hopefully they will at least consider some of our ideas.

[buckethead]

Mass transit infrastruture is far from my field of expertise, but I have slept at a few Holiday inn expresses around the country  . One thing that is great about the nightmare that is Hartsfield in the ATL, is the fact that MARTA can take you directly into downtown Atlanta. (As well as throughout the city)

If the convention center is to be reclaimed (rightfully) as a terminal, the monorail needs to have a stop directly connected to the terminal. Inside preferrably. Passengers with bags need easy access to it, as well as hotels and the new convention center.

For the business travler, a means of avoiding weather (Indy) would prove attractive. So much of our city is so well laid out if we can just use our strengths.

[JeffreyS]

St. Louis has a train I took from the airport to my convention at the America Center. It was a very impressive way to go. Elevated near the airport and freeways, ground level when it merged with existing rail and subway downtown.

[CS Foltz]

We need to get the powers that be,ie those in office now, to look objectively at what can be developed now and for the future! The MJ plan not only makes sense but seems to be pretty cost effective. Courthouse not withstanding planning now will save money over the long run and that should be the name of the game! I would not count on Johnny or his minions to be of much help!

[ramonher]

The main problem with our transportation system is that busses don't go where the public wants to go. And to be totally honest, most of the bus routes are set up for low income people and not the masses. One would think that in order to make money, you take the busses where the money is. My pet peve is that the people mover does not go to the stadium. That, to me should be a priority. Build a new convention center near the stadium near or on the waterfront and use the old convention center as a transportation hub.

[tufsu1]

Shouldn't a public transportantion system first be set up for those who have no choice?

This is a dilemna faced by almost every transit agency....look at Gainesville....they have increased ridership 10 fold over the last decade...but that was by investing in UF-oriented routes, some with 7 minute headways....the poor side of town is still primarily served by 30 min or 1 hour headways.

[CS Foltz]

Well heaven forbid that routes are actually planned for the lower income side of things! I don't remember seeing any bus's entering into Deer Wood or Kings Bay or any other high income development! Unless the domestic servants took a collection up.......but that won't happen either!