State Rd 9B

[reednavy]

Hmm, I thought everyone used San Jose.

The Old St Augustine Road interchange exit from 95 southbound is terribly short and requires very sudden slow down, unless you want to fly into the onramp for 95 southbound.

Also, the main reason why is because the limited number of interchanges on 95, especially 210, are critically over built and needs better access to US1. A good bit of the traffic problem would be releaved, for a few years at least until developers come along, by building an interchange with Racetrack Road. So, you either go through Bartram Park and sit, or take San Jose and sit.

9B is not necessary, mass transit is. JTA buses do not go into St. Johns County at all, and that's likely part of the problem. St. johns County has ZERO mass transit options, and building another highway is not the answer. You have a perfectly fine and easily accessible railroad track adjacent to main road in the county that can be utilized.

The way the communities in the northern part of St. Johns and southern Duval are built or spread far apart to not even utilize connectivity. BPB is NOT an example of connectivity in action. I've said it before and will say it again, connectivity via a street grid can do wonders.

Take Oklahoma City for example. They have a perfect grid pattern, and to travel from Norman to downtown OKC using city streets alone takes only about 45 minutes for a 20 mile trip, roughly the same distance from most locations in northern St. Johns to downtown Jacksonville. Part of the problem though is our greatest asset, the river.

[stjr]

you'll realize how useless 9B is.


Now correct me if I am wrong but was the new 295 interchange built with the intention to have 9b? If so would that not make it necessary? I would suggest anyone who has seen the interchange at Old St. Aug rd and 95 in the morning would know that folks in St. Johns county need a way to get out of the county rather than Bartram Park Blvd.  And before everyone goes and tells me about public transportation, have you met the people of N St. Johns county?  I love them, but they are not getting on bus, train, or a hovercraft. They are getting in an SUV and going to work.  9b becomes pretty necessary when you consider that.

Welcome, St. Auggie.  I hope my response below doesn't run you off, it's just how I see it versus how you see it. No offense.

People moved to St. Johns County based on the roads presently there.  They have I-95, US 1, and SR-13.  This is the problem with urban sprawl.  It feeds on itself, never catching up with its demands.  We can build 9B but you will be back in a few years complaining that, after the growth it creates is manifested, that you still need more ways out of St. Johns.  Of course, the Outer Beltway is being justified already in anticipation of this growth.

Just look to Jax or any other well established city, and you will see this is a never ending cycle.  Where does it end is the question.  Until a different approach is taken, we will be building these roads, FOLLOWING growth, forever, and you will never find satisfaction.  Mass transit is the key to getting off this treadmill.

As to the I-295 interchange depending on 9B, I have never heard that before this thread.  The I-295/I-95 interchange was possibly 30 or more years in the making.  I don't think you will find the concept of 9B going back anywhere near that far.  Regardless, I don't see where that effect comes in so someone will have to explain it.  The I-295/I-95 is a full blown interchange, possibly the largest in Northeast Florida.

Old St. Augustine Road is entirely in Duval County and I don't see that as ever having been a major viable conduit for many St. Johns County residents.  For what its worth, the real problem with St. Augustine Road, like JTB/I95 and so many other area interchanges, is that FDOT builds cheap diamond or half-diamond interchanges requiring traffic lights instead of full interchanges without lights.  When traffic overwhelms them, FDOT claims it's too expensive to buy back all the surrounding developed land they could have had for peanuts when the interchange was first built in the middle of nowhere.  Once again, a broken system.

To be candid, St. Johns County residents should live closer to their jobs in Duval if they don't like the traffic in St. Johns.  If more people exercised this privilege, we wouldn't have urban sprawl and would have viable mass transit.  Whether 9B and/or the Outer Beltway gets built, when the tens of thousands of new homes get built on all those Nocatee-like DRI's on former St. Johns County timberlands, you will be really howling about traffic (and probably overcrowded schools, etc.).  Then what?

By the way, why don't you hold the developers accountable for selling you a home they know you will ultimately be sitting in traffic for when they finish building out their tracts?  Buyer beware.

[Tripoli1711]

I do not inherently hate projects such as 9B.  I think in this instance it is not the right time or the right priority.  I also believe that our development in the sprawl areas is too often haphazardly done and that is the reason for the justifiable skepticism regarding 9B.  I think we should work to improve density in the urban core before we consider creating a catalyst to sprawl.  However, certain people will never have any inclination to live in dense urban developments.  The reason sprawl is so pervasive is because low density single family homes are wildly popular.  Once mass transit and other initiatives frequently discussed here have been implemented, it is likely a road such as this will be needed as natural population growth will demand it. 

Once built, it should be built "all-in".  I agree with the criticism regarding 9A.  I think 9A is a fantastic road and I am glad it was built, but it should have been built 6 lanes from the word "go".  That is one thing I always noticed in South Florida years ago when I visited often.  In many of their areas of "sprawl", their main arteries were 6 lanes even though it appeared unnecessary.  I assume this was because they recognized that in a few years the population of the area would justify 6 lanes, and it would be a much larger undertaking of time and money to expand.

I guess what I am trying to say is I am very hesitant to dismiss highway projects out of hand.  They will always be necessary because there will always be thousands of people who want to live in suburbia or exurbia.  I am a product of suburbia.  I would rather build mass transit and spur development in the core, even though I do not live there.  I recognize the benefit to the community at large of doing this.  But I am in the minority.  We cannot hope to eliminate sprawl any more than we can hope to eliminate population growth or people like my dad who would never live where his lot was less than 1/3 acre.  What we must do is demand responsibility from our officials regarding where the sprawl is directed and how it will impact our overall transportation landscape.

[tufsu1]

Now correct me if I am wrong but was the new 295 interchange built with the intention to have 9b? If so would that not make it necessary?

from what I understand rom FDOT, you are correct.

[stjr]

I went back to a few Times Union archived articles on 9B (1997 is the furthest back they seem to make available) and found the following interesting tidbits:

1) Another politically connected player showed up in 2004 with Gate's purchase of land near 9B.

2) It appears that anything regarding 9B south of I-95 wasn't even conceived of until 1997 so, certainly, none of this could be related to justifying a fix for I-95/I-295.

3) No surprise, future mass transit corridor accommodations are nonexistent.

4) Scott Clem, a current JTA manager, apparently didn't mind dinging Jax while working previously for St. Johns County.  He just made the point that all transportation comes down to politics, not the common good.  Again, no surprise here.

[1-23-2004]
The state Department of Transportation on Thursday kicked off a study that will pick a St. Johns County route for Florida 9B, the $206 million highway that will give Julington Creek residents a faster connection to Interstate 95...

...Clem said the county wants to see construction of Florida 9B start sooner and will try to obtain right of way for the Race Track Road relocation to hasten the process. Most of that part of northern St. Johns County is undeveloped land that's in the Cummer Trust. Last week, Gate Petroleum Co. announced it has contracted to buy the 5,460-acre tract.

Gate Petroleum's move to buy the land is the latest large-scale real estate transaction in northern St. Johns County. Florida 9B will help handle the increased traffic, said Ed Lehman, director of growth management at the Northeast Florida Regional Planning Council.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012304/met_14616154.shtml

[5-17-1997]
Now Commissioner Pal Howell has asked the state to use that money in his northwest county district to buy the land for his road plan, which advocates extending the proposed Florida 9B highway from its suggested end point at Interstate 95 all the way south to Race Track Road.

Howell made the request May 9 in a letter to Ken Morefield, the DOT's district secretary, even though he admits it is a long shot.

Florida 9B will run from the Interstate 295/Interstate 95 merger south to U.S. 1, then connect to I-95 just south of Bayard when it is done sometime in the next decade. Howell wants the state to extend that highway eight-tenths-of-a-mile farther south and hook up to Race Track Road to give his constituents access to the interstate.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/051797/BBB___A1.html

[5-26-2006] David Anderson, project engineer, said DOT's consultant, HNTB Corp. of Jacksonville, offered 24 separate corridor options but later narrowed it to six....

...One interested browser, Louise Thrower of Fruit Cove, said she didn't see any provisions for mass transit.

"I want to know where their monorail and mass transit lanes are," she said.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052606/nes_21960293.shtml

[4-9-2003]
A political tug-of-war has developed among four Northeast Florida counties over who can form metropolitan planning organizations, which control thousands of highway dollars and make key recommendations on projects that affect motorists every day.

Jacksonville has its own organization that encompasses parts of Clay and St. Johns counties but wants to expand to include all of St. Johns.

However, St. Johns officials want to go on their own, saying they would have more control over transportation projects and get more money for such projects with their own organization. They say they'll never get a fair shake from the existing First Coast Metropolitan Planning Organization because its staff members are also Jacksonville city employees.

"I find it hard to believe that they can be totally impartial when their boss is the [Jacksonville] mayor," said Scott Clem, director of growth management services for St. Johns County.[/b]

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040903/met_planning.shtml

[reednavy]

Gate is connected somehow, I'm shocked!






Not really

[British Shoe Company]

So what if Gate wanted to purchase 35,000 acres between Jax. and St. Aug.  If you had the money, you would want to make investments too.   An investment was made.   If you do not like Gate, shop at Kangaroo.  The gas at Kangaroo is liberal.  The gas at Gate is conservative.  If people get angry with Metro Jax., and the opinions people have, get help at Charter.  If you don't get help there, get help somewhere.

[British Shoe Company]

A JTA to St. Aug. round trip bus route makes since too. 4 times a day sounds about right.  Maybe more or less, depending on the need.  We still need 9B.  A bus route will not solve future infrastructure needs of Northeast Florida.  What would Mr. Flagler do.  He would build a train.  woops, he did.  "Are people shocked, or not really" still w/ Mr. Flagler. 
 

[reednavy]

Liberal and conservative gas stations. Wow, you really are a dumbass troll.

[stjr]

As to British Shoe, he/she seems to be here just to rile us up.  Hard to take seriously.  I've seen this type of poster on other boards.  They just crave attention and will say anything outrageous to get it.[/b]

Reednavy, I would like to repeat my previous advice regarding British Shoe.  I think it is becoming more apparent with every post he/she makes, that I pegged this poster correctly.  Other than to suggest other posters stay clear of responding, I wouldn't pay the aptly titled "BS" any more heed.

The gas at Kangaroo is liberal.  The gas at Gate is conservative.  If people get angry with Metro Jax., and the opinions people have, get help at Charter.  If you don't get help there, get help somewhere.

Perhaps some of us should follow the advice we dispense to others. 

[British Shoe Company]

Are yall Mr. Wrestling #1, and #2?  I think you are intitled to your opinions, and I was trying to add a little humer with the  Kangaroo statement.  In fact it is really a French owned  company.  I do not shop at Citco.  I hope you guys do not drive 50 miles to fill up on Hugo's gas!

[British Shoe Company]

Liberal and conservative gas stations. Wow, you really are a dumbass troll.

[British Shoe Company]

Gate is connected somehow, I'm shocked!






Not really

[British Shoe Company]

reed bible talkl, gibberish or otherwise is just as good as any other talk, gibberish or otherwise.  It doesnt break the rules of our forums anywhere near the incivility of telling people to shut up, or demean their religion.

[British Shoe Company]

reednavy, and stjr, I am sure you are both good people.  I know Mr. Wrestling #1, and Mr. Wrestling #2, and you two are not them.

NACHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!