Sniffing Along The Waterfront

[urbanlibertarian]

Mayor Haydon Burns was trying to make DT Jax more appealing to the insurance companies he wanted to move here.  IMO the riverwalk we have now is better than a series of wharves.

[stephendare]

It was actually considered a source of crime

[tufsu1]

God what an enormous mistake it was to demolish our wharfs.

that's what they said in Baltimore in the 1970's....I think they're pretty happy with the end product now!

[stephendare]

Commercial wharves drive money and profit and business.  They gave downtown a vibrancy that it lacks now.  It was a tactical error to destroy the wharves.

[heights unknown]

Way before my time.  All I remember is a clean waterfront with parking lots back in the 60's when I first arrived as a Country Boy new entry.  Negroes catching catfish from a rickety dock?  Glad stereotyping of African Americans is almost over...yes we still catch catfish and yes we still eat them, but I'll bet caucasians, in the past and moreso now that times are hard, catch and eat more catfish than we did and do now.  Just joking y'all, it's just real interesting how the race thing was back then. Hope one day it is all buried, on both sides, once and for all.

Heights Unknown

[stjr]

My grandfather came to Jax in 1940 to help build and operate the National Container plant on Tallyrand.  I believe it's now Smurfit-Stone's plant.  He also oversaw the National Container paper mill in Valdosta, Ga. which was far larger.   The Georgia mill was eventually acquired by Georgia Pacific but now appears to be Packaging Corporation of America (see aerial below).  National Container was owned by Sam Kipnis who was another Jax business legend that became very prominent in both Jax and New York City circles.  National Container was bought out by Owens Illinois in the mid-50's.

Here is some info on Sam Kipnis and National Container found in a book about a Georgia lumber company that did business with them: http://books.google.com/books?id=IO02VExuINMC&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=national+container+kipnis&source=bl&ots=JfNqNH-66r&sig=3TTf1kLCz5miccxm0MhwI5A0muE&hl=en&ei=xnlzSrWIGcWgmAfUoq3KBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=national%20container%20kipnis&f=false

An aerial shot of the mill in Valdosta: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=5495+Clyattville+Lake+Park+Road,+Valdosta,+GA+31601&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.641855,78.837891&ie=UTF8&ll=30.694778,-83.303339&spn=0.01299,0.019248&t=h&z=16

More shots of the Jacksonville plant:















Worker at the factory for the National Container Corporation (Mill Division) : Jacksonville, Florida picture:



Worker in laboratory at the factory for the National Container Corporation (Mill Division) : Jacksonville, Florida picture:



Worker at the factory for the National Container Corporation (Mill Division) : Jacksonville, Florida picture:



Worker at the factory for the National Container Corporation (Mill Division) : Jacksonville, Florida picture:

[urbanlibertarian]

stephendare wrote "Commercial wharves drive money and profit and business."

I know they did up through the 1950's but how would they in the 21st century?

[thelakelander]

My dad's first job out of college was in the accounting office of Owens-Illinois at the Wigmore Street mill, in the images above.  After a brief stay in the military (Vietnam years), he was given a promotion to relocate to either Valdosta or Winter Haven, FL.  He ended up choosing Winter Haven because it was a short drive from his birthplace (Tampa).  He just retired about a year ago after spending 40 years with PCA (his plant went from Owens Illinois to Nekoosa Packaging to Georgia-Pacific to Packaging Corporation of America).

Growing up, every now and then, he'd take us (me and my brothers), with him to Owens-Illinois' headquarters in Toledo.

One SeaGate Place (Owens-Illinois Headquarters in Toledo (1982-2006) *-The tall glass tower on the right


The base of One SeaGate Place had a Rouse festival center called Portside Festival Marketplace.  Opened in 1984, like the Landing (for Jacksonville), it was supposed to renovate downtown Toledo.  As a kid, I remember it being quite empty.  Unlike the Landing, it closed for good in 1990 and has since been converted into a science museum.

Portside Festival Marketplace


Anyway, over the years, both of my brothers ended up getting jobs (one still works for them) at the Winter Haven box plant.  I was the only one to go the opposite route (high school-college-career).  

After a visit to Sloss Furnances in Birmingham five years ago, I always thought the old paper mill would have made a great industrial museum.  However, except for a kiln, the entire complex has been demolished.  Future plans for this site call for converting it into a coal terminal.

By the way, when did they demolish the old power plant next door?  From the images, it looked to be pretty architecturally impressive for an industrial facility.

[thelakelander]

stephendare wrote "Commercial wharves drive money and profit and business."

I know they did up through the 1950's but how would they in the 21st century?

Over time, the uses would have changed, but if a few were left they would have been ideal for a public market.

[stjr]

My dad's first job out of college was in the accounting office of Owens-Illinois at the Wigmore Street mill, in the images above.  After a brief stay in the military (Vietnam years), he was given a promotion to relocate to either Valdosta or Winter Haven, FL.  He ended up choosing Winter Haven because it was a short drive from his birthplace (Tampa).  He just retired about a year ago after spending 40 years with PCA (his plant went from Owens Illinois to Nekoosa Packaging to Georgia-Pacific to Packaging Corporation of America).

Growing up, every now and then, he'd take us (me and my brothers), with him to Owens-Illinois' headquarters in Toledo.

Lake, your Dad started at the same time my granddad was retiring.  Hey, we have a common ancestry with National Container/Owens Illinois/PCA.  Neat.

[stjr]

The state archives identifies this power plant as serving electirc trolleys.  Based on the landscaping, apparent age, and design, could it be anywhere else but Jacksonville?  What year?

[stjr]

By the way, when did they demolish the old power plant next door?  From the images, it looked to be pretty architecturally impressive for an industrial facility.

I don't know but JEA could probably tell us.  Here is one more image, apparently a bit older than the one you posted above:

[stjr]

Aerial still showing wharves in place:







Waterfront after "cleaning it up".  First picture appears to be late 50's based on construction pictured of old city hall:

[heights unknown]

Wow; Jax was truly an "industrial waste fart" back in the day; much more industry (especially fishing, textile, etc.) than is here now.

Heights Unknown

[tufsu1]

Commercial wharves drive money and profit and business.  They gave downtown a vibrancy that it lacks now.  It was a tactical error to destroy the wharves.

most cities moved their waterfront industrial uses away from downtown  (in our case, that would be the Tallyrand and Dames Point areas)....giving way to public space along the water....I don't see how that's a tactical error in any way.