$ky-high-way POLL: Pick it's fate (or your poison)!

[lindab]

I would be interested to see the documents. If you haven't done so somewhere else on this forum, can you provide the links or list who to call? Thanks.

[Ocklawaha]

stjr, here is just one reference to employee protection, Railroads, Amtrak and MASS TRANSIT EMPLOYEES.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:SN00738:@@@D&summ2=m&
Subtitle C: Employee Protection Reforms - Provides that notices to Amtrak employees regarding employee protective arrangements and severance benefits, including all provisions of Appendix C-2 to the National Railroad Passenger Agreement, signed July 5, 1973, shall be deemed served and effective 45 days after enactment of this Act.

(Sec. 141) Requires the National Mediation Board to complete all efforts with respect to the dispute over such arrangements and benefits not later than 120 days after enactment of this Act. Authorizes parties to such dispute to agree to submit it to arbitration under the Railway Labor Act.

Declares that nothing in this Act shall affect the level of protection provided to freight railroad employees and mass transportation employees as it existed before enactment of this Act.

(Sec. 142) Repeals certain requirements for fair and equitable employee protective arrangements in the event of a discontinuance of intercity rail passenger service (effectively eliminating such contracts).

This is the part where you come in and say, "It doesn't matter for the Skyway, rip it down..." Protection bites double when one considers the Skyway is automated and the dozen or so techies over at monorail central are not cheap. Most every Skyway-Monorail job comes with EXTREME specialties.



OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

That's because (are you sitting down?) we actually agree on Jax's lack of vision and progressiveness.  Because of that, mass transit advocates are playing with very limited political capital, not to mention financial resources

stjr, I think you're onto something here  

Hmmm, what are the conclusions we, as mass transit advocates, ought to draw from this statement?

[stephendare]

well we could probably do a lot, but at the present theres pretty much just one person who hates the skyway so badly, and one very useful bridge that crosses the river with mass transit.

No amount of posting really changes that.  It boils down to either working with it or coming up with an alternative.

I have yet to hear the alternative.

[Ocklawaha]

stjr
 I say cut our losses, abandon it, and pursue much better alternatives.

Considering the book I'm reading, DAMN AM I GLAD YOUR WERE NOT IN CHARGE AT PEARL HARBOR!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

stjr, here is just one reference to employee protection, Railroads, Amtrak and MASS TRANSIT EMPLOYEES.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:SN00738:@@@D&summ2=m&
Subtitle C: Employee Protection Reforms - Provides that notices to Amtrak employees regarding employee protective arrangements and severance benefits, including all provisions of Appendix C-2 to the National Railroad Passenger Agreement, signed July 5, 1973, shall be deemed served and effective 45 days after enactment of this Act.

(Sec. 141) Requires the National Mediation Board to complete all efforts with respect to the dispute over such arrangements and benefits not later than 120 days after enactment of this Act. Authorizes parties to such dispute to agree to submit it to arbitration under the Railway Labor Act.

Declares that nothing in this Act shall affect the level of protection provided to freight railroad employees and mass transportation employees as it existed before enactment of this Act.

(Sec. 142) Repeals certain requirements for fair and equitable employee protective arrangements in the event of a discontinuance of intercity rail passenger service (effectively eliminating such contracts).

Ock, the quote you cite above from this act appears to relate to Amtrak only.  Last I checked, the $ky-high-way was run by JTA.  Where are there provisions that would bring in JTA workers?

You highlight the act saying it doesn't change protection for mass transit employees but it doesn't say here what those protections are or how such employees are defined.  And, notice that Section 142, which you cited, REPEALS certain protective arrangements "in the event of a discontinuance" of intercity services.   Hmmm.... maybe such protective arrangements, if they are indeed applicable, have already been repealed for INTRAcity employees. [By the way, even for Amtrak employees, your cite references "severance benefits", thus implying some basis for terminating employees.]

Here is, from your own link, the act's summary, which also says it primarily relates to Amtrak.  :

S.738
Title: A bill to reform the statutes relating to Amtrak, to authorize appropriations for Amtrak, and for other purposes [which, per the summary description you linked us to, has no further reference to employee issues].

Overall, this language as presented is far from convincing that $ky-high-way employees enjoy the protections you say they have.  Can you find something more on point?

Still looking, too, for a cite on the "give back the Fed's their investment" and "you are blacklisted with the Feds" if you abandon the $ky-high-way.

As always, thanks for your efforts to assist.

[stjr]

well we could probably do a lot, but at the present theres pretty much just one person who hates the skyway so badly, and one very useful bridge that crosses the river with mass transit.

No amount of posting really changes that.  It boils down to either working with it or coming up with an alternative.

I have yet to hear the alternative.

Stephen, the alternatives have already been discussed and are physically attainable.  It's not "if there are alternatives", it's about picking the BEST alternative(s).

To spell it out, we could continue to use buses or we could add street/trolley cars.  Both could be made to work with our bridges.

And, while I may be the most vociferous on MJ boards, I do not see myself as "just one person who hates the skyway so badly", either on MJ boards or in the greater Jacksonville community.  Actually, I think the odds are rather in my favor as to how the community at large thinks.

I always give you credit for for paying careful attention to MJ discussions.  Don't let me down now. 

[stjr]

Good thing all the answer choices were fair and balanced.  What a joke.

Captain, it is a "joke".  It's a satirical poll featuring proponents arguments.  Join the list of those posting on this thread with no sense of humor.

If you want "fair and balanced", read the entire thread and all the other threads on this subject laying out many facets of the issue.  Neither side is going to be completely "fair and balanced" when they are trying to make a point in support of a position - which, in and of itself, is a bias toward an issue.  If you are a disinterested observer, you will take such points into consideration and make up your own mind.

From your comments, it appears you have self proclaimed yourself as the epitome of "fair and balanced" and, thus, if true,  I salute you.  I haven't found many people that objective in life so you stand out in the crowd. 

[thelakelander]

I would be interested to see the documents. If you haven't done so somewhere else on this forum, can you provide the links or list who to call? Thanks.

I'd like to see these documents as well.  They would really introduce a new component to the skyway story if confirmed to exist or not.  My guess is that JTA knows the answer.  Someone should contact them.

[stjr]

I would be interested to see the documents. If you haven't done so somewhere else on this forum, can you provide the links or list who to call? Thanks.

I'd like to see these documents as well.  They would really introduce a new component to the skyway story if confirmed to exist or not.  My guess is that JTA knows the answer.  Someone should contact them.

While we await for someone to produce the documents, what they purportedly represent would be a pretty sorry reason for keeping the $ky-high-way or, worse, expanding it.

It would be tantamount to acting irresponsibly because we made a deal with the devil.  This would epitomize what taxpayers find wrong with government and just add another black eye to the image of mass transit.  For the greater sake of mass transit, let's hope these claims turn out to be "urban myths".

I would hope even the most ardent $ky-high-way proponents would be reluctant to resort to such claims as support for their favorite toy (it's kind of like wishing for a war to break out to get elected).

[Coolyfett]

Go Suns!

[thekillingwax]

I'd like to ride to work on some sort of self-propelled food item. Maybe like a big party sub. You could eat a little on your way in, eat some for lunch and then have dinner on the way home. Some days, I'd call in at work and tell them I couldn't be there because I ate my ride.

Just imagine, thousands of magical sandwiches carrying people to work. Or magical wraps if you're carb considerate.

[CS Foltz]

I voted for option number one! Pull the plug and get it over with! Ridership is limited and for 7 Million a year we could go to a trolley system or the like. Do just like Savannah one line ,to start with, and go from point A to point B, those points to be determined. Run tracks parallel and have enough cars for a reasonable interval between them. Set main hub at Shipyard parking lot,since its so usefull and large and away we go! Gee, I sure do wish the current Administration had a vision like this.........or any vision at all!