Proposed Super Bowl Legacy: Downtown Gathering & Event Mega-Site

[stjr]

NY City has Central Park.  Washington DC has the Mall.  San Francisco has Golden Gate Park.  Philadelphia has the Benjamin Franklin Parkway/Fairmount Park.  Boston has Boston Commons.  And Jacksonville has .....?

Most great cities of the world have places where hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people can gather at one time for great celebrations and events in their downtown areas. Jacksonville has Hemming Plaza! 

After hosting the Super Bowl in 2005, the Jax community should be more aware than ever of the value of, and need for, a mega-site consisting of dozens of urban acres to host major events of local, regional, national, or global importance. The SB host committee utilized two such sites for their event (one for concerts, the other for the NFL experience), both still unused, but neither currently on the drawing boards for retention by our community as event sites.

These two sites are the Shipyards property along the river on the Northbank and the former JEA Southside Generating Plant property on the Southbank. Either, or both, of these sites should be a priority for preservation as public spaces to allow Jax to host super-large events, festivities, and gatherings as its population, and hoped-for national influence and reputation, grow.  Without such venues, Jacksonville's capacity to host large events will be forever limited, much more so than even by a convention center which could hold only a fraction of the people utilizing an outdoor venue.

Think about the up to 2 million people that visited DC for the inauguration.  Or the hundreds of thousands in Central Park for a concert.  Or the 1 million that have gathered in Philly for a spring festival.  Jax can barely accommodate a few thousand for fireworks, mostly spread out for miles along the downtown river banks.

And, should Jax lose the aforementioned sites, where and how would we be able to host an event like the Super Bowl again?  Where could we place tens of thousands of visitors like that in the future?

We can always find a couple of city blocks for a convention center (I think the courthouse site could spare a few!), but finding dozens of acres downtown in the future will be nearly impossible to replicate.  (Hey, maybe a new convention center could be co-located on such a site.)

NOW is the time for Jax to step up and secure one or both of these mega-sites, or forever mortgage our opportunity to be a host to big time events. Both sites are in indefinite limbo, their values depressed due to the economy.  Why not utilize/reinvest/bond some of our hotel taxes or other tourists revenues to acquire these lands today.

[thelakelander]

This is basically the idea behind Peyton's plan to relocate Kid Kampus for "flex space".

DOWNTOWN -- The city's desire to keep public riverfront land in Downtown's core has spread eastward to its real estate holdings near Alltel Stadium, where plans are focused on moving a children's park to make way for green space.

Kids Kampus would be relocated from its Northbank spot near Metropolitan Park to the "Kid's Zone," a conceptual site on the city's recently unveiled "Big Ideas" plan for Downtown redevelopment.

This would free up the 24-acre parcel where the park is now located for "flex space," a term city staff use for land such as the Shipyards and former JEA Southside Generating Station sites, which remain vacant and were used during Super Bowl XXXIX as temporary special events locations.

full article: http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2006/03/06/story7.html

NY City has Central Park.  Washington DC has the Mall.  San Francisco has Golden Gate Park.  Philadelphia has the Benjamin Franklin Parkway/Fairmount Park.  Boston has Boston Commons.  And Jacksonville has .....?

Most great cities of the world have places where hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people can gather at one time for great celebrations and events in their downtown areas. Jacksonville has Hemming Plaza! 

Our "Central Park" is the 37 acres of linear park space between Springfield and Downtown formerly known as Springfield Park.  Instead of maintaining and utilizing it, the city turned its back on this unique space by cutting it off from downtown (ex. turning State & Union into a major highway and destroying most of the buildings in this area).  Instead of only focusing on the riverfront, I'd prefer the community work to rebuild this space to the point where it can be just as popular as the Boston Common. 

Jacksonville's Central Park?



























more images:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/609/117/

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/423/115/

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/427/117/

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/424/117/

[BridgeTroll]

I wonder what Savannah would do with a huge public park like this?  Somehow I doubt they would let it fall into disrepair, abandon it to hookers and drug dealers...

[thelakelander]

Here's a few images of Savannah's:

Forsyth Park












Learning From Georgia IV: Savannah's Forsyth Park
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=718.0

[heights unknown]

Great thread and great point about this parcel of land that used to be a working, viable City Park.  I agree, this land should be redeveloped, upgraded, and restored into Jacksonville's Central Park.  I remember my Aunt taking me and some cousins to this area when I was a kid in the 60's.  She lived on Jefferson Street and this Park was right next to her home.  We picnic'd there and then walked from the western portion all the way down to Confederate Park on Main and 1st.  There were numerous othe people, mostly black back then that frequented this park (as most of the neighborhoods back then in that area were black), but there were throngs of people picnicing, walking, and frequenting this park.  There was also a swimming pool, again that was mostly frequented by blacks, in the park as well.

Jacksonville, and the world has changed since then.  I would imagine all types of people would come to this park if it were redeveloped, security enhanced (police along with security guards), and even rebuild a community swimming pool for eveyone's enjoyment.  There are numerous ideas and civic contributions that could be entailed and added to further make this parcel of land a working park once again and an enjoyment for the City of Jacksonville.

Great thread!

[Jason]

With some redevlopment, "Springfield Park" should easily become the shining star of the local urban parks.  Rebuild it and allow for dense development along its borders complete with transit connections and it is destined for success.  IMO, leave the Shipyards and Jea sites to the private developers.

[Keith-N-Jax]

We need a good mayor and good city leaders,,until then expect the same yr after yr.

[Coolyfett]

Metro Park is too small?

[stjr]

This is basically the idea behind Peyton's plan to relocate Kid Kampus for "flex space".

Our "Central Park" is the 37 acres of linear park space between Springfield and Downtown formerly known as Springfield Park.  Instead of maintaining and utilizing it, the city turned its back on this unique space by cutting it off from downtown (ex. turning State & Union into a major highway and destroying most of the buildings in this area).  Instead of only focusing on the riverfront, I'd prefer the community work to rebuild this space to the point where it can be just as popular as the Boston Common. 

Jacksonville's Central Park?

The property appraiser's info shows over 45 acres for the Shipyards and over 50 acres for JEA (about 42 acres) combined with 8.5 contiguous acres owned by the City on the Southbank.  This doesn't count the long term possibility of adding the School Board's property.

Lake's quote from the City indicates Metro Park at 24 acres but it looks to be closer to 21 acres unless WJCT is sharing some of its property.  Either way, this about half of the other properties.

I think Metro Park is (a) too small and (b) too remote and unconnected to downtown.

The Springfield Park, IMHO, is (a) at Lake's stated 37 acres, smaller than the subject properties, (b) linear in shape, stretching over many city blocks which makes it impractical for a focused event, (c) divided/chopped into pieces with the creek running through (d) too remote and disconnected from downtown, and (e) lacks Jacksonville's signature status of being on the river.

I agree both Metro and Springfield Parks have great untapped potential but that potential is not in line with my proposition for a signature mega-site for mega-events in this thread.

JEA and the Shipyards are much larger parcels, more regularly shaped, more connected to downtown, and along the scenic and signature St. Johns River setting (which in itself engenders it to water oriented events involving boats, skiing, visiting ships, water taxis, panoramic fireworks, the river walks, etc.).

If Jax is ever going to break out of its "small town" "back woods" mentality, its got to start thinking on a much more grander and imaginative scale.  The value of the JEA and Shipyard properties above all others should be obvious. Just ask any private developer what he/she would value the most of these choices.  That should be the same thinking of our City leaders on behalf of our City!  I promise you future generations will wonder aloud why we did not pick up one or both of these properties in the present era.  

[thelakelander]

I believe a portion of the Shipyards' acreage is underwater and the JEA property is about as far away from downtown as you can get, yet still be considered as being in downtown.  While Springfield's chain of parks may only be 37 acres, they are the closest thing we have to the previously mentioned Boston Commons.   



The Commons covers 50 acres but most of that land is not flex space for temporary events.  There is a major street that bisects the space, large ponds, baseball fields and heavily wooded areas.  Nevertheless, it has accomodated +100,000 crowds for special events in the past.  The key thing in successful urban park design is that the space be designed for a diverse amount of everyday use, even if the goal is creating land for mega temporary events.  If flex space for temporary mega events is desired, look no further than the Sports District's parking lots and Metropolitan Park. 

Jacksonville Sports District


You'll find acres and acres of asphalt that sit empty for most of the year.  Before spending millions of taxpayer dollars purchasing expensive waterfront brownfield sites, maybe we can discover a way to turn the entire Sports District into a mini version of Chicago's +300 acre Grant Park?

Soldier Field is served by underground parking and mass transit.


Our Sports District could benefit from a skyway extension, streetcar line down Bay & Philip Randolph or both.  Having viable mass transit options would reduce the need for surface parking.  Tailgating could still be accomodated in permanent multi-use green space areas.

Flex Space

surface lots could be redeveloped for "flex use".  In Grant Park, these baseball fields join to form space for larger temporary events.



Just because there are existing streets does not mean that smaller parcels can not play a role in larger temporary events

Reusing our already owned poorly utilized surface lots in the Sports District and Metropolitan Park allows us public riverfront access without purchasing expensive private property.  Jacksonville's true Central Park could also be tied in via a greenway along Hogans Creek, which empties into the river near the coffee plant.  With coordinated long term planning, paddleboats, gondolas and canoeing opportunities could be made available.

[heights unknown]

I agree with your post Stjr, your supposed cons about Springfield Park; but I still think it has great potential, and, does everything have to be on the River and directly connected to downtown to be a viable Park that can draw crowds when holding top tier entertainment events?  I don't think so.  I still think we can a) make this park a great signage entertainment destination and number 1 City Park without being on the River and b) make it connect to downtown (our leaders can make that happen that's why they get paid the big bucks) and in my opinion it is connected because downtown is less than 3 blocks away...that's what shuttles, buses, etc. are for and other modes of public transportation that will ensure it is connected to downtown and enhance connectivity.

Heights Unknown

[thelakelander]

Klutho and Confederate Park may be closer to the Landing than the Shipyards.  However, they seem far away because they have been forgotten.  In addition, FCCJ's surface parking lots and State & Union form a non-pedestrian friendly barrier.

[Ocklawaha]

We've allowed so much to encroach on "Springfield Park" that large chunks of it need to be completely reconstructed.

Confederate Park is now an island, as the Water Works cuts it off from the rest of the system.

Lower Hogans Creek, Where we talked about a "Creek Walk" could also be connected when the new Arlington Expressway ramps are built for the Matthews bridge or tunnel.

The New VA clinic may further encroach on the upper portion of the park system, with an ever increasing demand for space and parking as we head toward full VA Medical Center - someday in the future.

All of this will have to be addressed quickly or we will lose what we have to work with.

Also a couple of Transportation Thoughts, Streetcar COULD go right up the park green space on a landscaped trail from Shand's down to Newnan at Orange. While such a line would miss Main Street's famous streetcar Parkway Median's, and businesses, it would certainly become an attraction to weekenders, picnics and party's.

Meanwhile a canoe, party barge or peddle boat trail would not be hard to create along Hogans Creek from Bay Street all the way up to Boulevard (more or less) in the Park. It would involve gently raising the Kluthlo Bridges and moving the railing back for widening and dredging the channel.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Some interesting numbers for urban parks:

Fairmount Park, Philadelphia: 9,200 acres total; 4,400 core (by the way, laid out by William Penn in the 1600's, some 200 years before Central Park!)
Golden Gate Park, San Francisco: 1,017 acres
Lincoln Park, Chicago: 1,200 acres
Central Park, NYC: 843 acres
National Mall, Washington, DC: 309 acres
Boston Commons: 50 acres
Springfield Park, Jacksonville: 37 acres!!!!

Why are we acting as if park space downtown is finite?  Why can't we have all the existing park areas mentioned and add new parks at JEA and/or the Shipyards?  These choices don't have to be mutually exclusive.  This satisfaction with the status quo is what keeps Jax from moving forward as a City. 

If Lake is suggesting adding the Shipyards to Metro Park, that would be a great idea.  Much of the land in Boston along the Charles River is public parkland.  Much of the land around San Francisco Bay is the same.  Fairmount Park lines the Schuylkill River in Philly.  Much of the land lining the Potomac in Washington is parkland.  It's a fact that cities prefer parks with waterfront!  We are fortunate to have some of the best waterfront in the world and we have little more than 20 foot +/-  wide and paved riverwalks to show for it.

The cost today of buying these lands will pale to their future value when Jax "grows up" into a truly big city.  Imagine the value of Central Park's land today versus the mid-1800' s when it was founded.  I am sure it was never considered "cheap" but it is now priceless!  Add to it the value it has added to the quality of life in NY and to its economy over those same 200 years. 

Where will Jax be in 25, 50, 100, or 200 years?  Does anybody in this town think in those terms?  It appears not.  Folks, we are talking about a legacy to future generations, not what it means to today or tomorrow.  William Penn had more foresight in the 1600's than Jax does in 2009!  It's time to start thinking outside the box.

By the way, JEA, is a city-owned authority, putting it's land already in the public domain.  It should offer the land as part of its compensation to the City which owns it.  Remember, JEA has a few billion in assets.  Twenty, thirty, or forty million in land is not going to break it, especially if it's amortized over several years.

And, if the City can find tens of millions for a stadium upgrade that might not last more than another 20 or 25 years, why can't it find a lesser amount for land that will last "forever"!

In the end, where there is a will, there is a way.  Let's start practicing it in our community!

[tufsu1]

A few thoughts:

1. Fairmount Park was not laid out by William Penn....he just laid out the Center City grid...the park was designed in the 1800's in part by Olmstead

2. Most of the parks listed are not in the downtown...for example, Central Park, Golden Gate Park, and Fairmount Park (although a small ribbon come close)

3. Maybe we should be using our Timucuan Preserve area....how would Jax. compare then?