Lost Jacksonville

[SunKing]

Nice work then.  Sounds like you are doing your part.

I will tell you that the best thing that a city can do is raise taxes on derelict buildings.  Simple as that.  Less incentive to buy and hold which is the main problem downtown.  If I am an investor and I can buy a building downtown and keep a low tax basis, I have less risk just sitting on it than someone that spends money rehabbing, leasing, paying expenses, only to get dinged by the city.  They will tell you that the historic designation holds taxes for 10 years, which it does but it is a pain in the ass!  Just hold the taxes for 10 years anyway.  Or raise taxes on unimproved buildings and lower them for improved.

[thelakelander]

In Tampa, this led to the demolition of several historic buildings.  It was cheaper for property owners to sit on surface parking lots than continue to pay on old derelict buildings.

[samiam]

I believe that the way to improve and save historic building is to reward action (new concept in modern America) in the form of incentives for anyone. Include the middle class as well, we are the ones paying most of the taxes. Don,t limit the grants to lower income. a person has the ability to pay more out of packet if they make more. If you have restored a historic building you know it is not a cheep endever and not for the weak of heart, It will nickle and dime you to death. I do not believe penalizing the large property holders will save any of the historic building in Jacksonville, but if an individual has a history of buying building and holding on to them, not improving them then maybe they should be forced to sell at fair market value.

[lindab]

This is a really interesting discussion. We are seeing this in the case of Public School #4, Annie Lytle School.

The school is neither abandoned or foreclosed but it is derelict and an attractive nuisance to vandals especially young kids. The property has been undeveloped for over 20 years. If the taxes went up on the place, it would be a goner.

If it weren't for citizens who care about historic preservation coming to council meetings,cleaning debris, removing graffiti, mowing lawns, nailing up window coverings, & calling the cops on trespassers, this place would be dust. No laws, no organizations, no grants are saving this building presently.

[stjr]

I will tell you that the best thing that a city can do is raise taxes on derelict buildings.  Simple as that.  Less incentive to buy and hold which is the main problem downtown.

In Tampa, this led to the demolition of several historic buildings.  It was cheaper for property owners to sit on surface parking lots than continue to pay on old derelict buildings.

The same point I made in my previous posts on this thread.  Refer back to my comments about greenbelt/history-belt status.   No one owns/holds a structure just to sit on it forever.  They either want to tear it down and build anew or reuse it when the time is right.

Lowering the carrying costs on an un-restored building will allow the owner more patience in deciding its future and/or the ability to wait until the times are right to justify the risks and costs of a restoration.   This beats tearing it down just to remove the higher improved tax value but otherwise mostly worthless (prior to restoration) building and replacing it with a revenue raising parking lot at lower taxes.

[jbovinette]

I wish I was able to see these old buildings. I never really got the chance to see these. I'm only 28 and since i've been coming to Jacksonville I can only remember the tearing down and the construction that has continued for as long as I can remember. It's sad that they are all being demolished. Those buildings said so much about Jacksonville and the growth of the south and the tourism of Florida. Im so happy that the Jacksonville Terminal was spared.

[Ocklawaha]

Nice work then.  Sounds like you are doing your part.

I will tell you that the best thing that a city can do is raise taxes on derelict buildings.  Simple as that.  Less incentive to buy and hold which is the main problem downtown.  If I am an investor and I can buy a building downtown and keep a low tax basis, I have less risk just sitting on it than someone that spends money rehabbing, leasing, paying expenses, only to get dinged by the city.  They will tell you that the historic designation holds taxes for 10 years, which it does but it is a pain in the ass!  Just hold the taxes for 10 years anyway.  Or raise taxes on unimproved buildings and lower them for improved.

This is also exactly why untold thousands of miles of railroad were abandoned between 1960 and 1990. They couldn't afford to continue to pay taxes on land, interstate commerce, transportation, and school districts, if the lines fell below a certain level. So we simply lost them. Today we are spending BILLIONS to rebuild many of those same lines.

Watch the old Seaboard Route along North Main all the way to Savannah (it's also mostly abandoned) but being the shortest route, bet this is where the high speed rail will be laid out.

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

Number 50 shows the great downtown post office on the left side. It was a shame to tear it down for a bank building....

[stjr]

Here is another view of the Germania Building on Riverside Avenue, Brooklyn:

[barberofdeville]

Makes me want to cry. WoW downtown JAX was beautiful. Reminds me of Louisville...well before they tore down all those buildings.

[Ocklawaha]

I wish I was able to see these old buildings. I never really got the chance to see these. I'm only 28 and since i've been coming to Jacksonville I can only remember the tearing down and the construction that has continued for as long as I can remember. It's sad that they are all being demolished. Those buildings said so much about Jacksonville and the growth of the south and the tourism of Florida. Im so happy that the Jacksonville Terminal was spared.

Great avatar jbovinette. Welcome aboard!  wish I could walk all of you through a movie of that terminal when it was live. They tore down much more then remains today as it contained much more then the headhouse station (the big 1919 vintage - so called Prime Osbourne). There were hundreds of platforms, tunnels, extra buildings, interlocking towers every where... Beaver Street Tower lasted until your lifetime, but Myrtle Interlocking was even larger then today's "Amshack". There was St. Johns Interlocking tower, Roundhouse, Shops, Coach yards, the Railway Post Office with it's own back in tracks, and the Worlds Largest RAILWAY EXPRESS station. JIA has never seen the day when it was half as busy as Jacksonville Terminal. We REALLY dropped the ball when we allowed Amtrak to dictate stops and location, and allowed the railroads just to take it all down. 

An average of 15 MILLION passengers a year came through that station in it's lifetime... They're all "flying" through Orlando today. Yesterday while in Mickeyville, I watched the Silver Meteor at the platform with 300+ passengers on and off... Thinking all along, HOW STUPID CAN WE BE??

OCKLAWAHA

[Flipside]

Did anyone know that Ocklawaha Valley Railroad is Florida's Lost Railroad? In fact, Robert Mann not only knew this but launched a fan club in its honor in 2007. As of this date, he is still its only member.

“A railroad history, big plans, great route, all combined to make this the little train that couldn’t fail.  Evil forces, empires, nabobs and just plain dumb bad luck, made it the little train that couldn’t win”.

Apparently, the Ocklawaha Valley Railroad also has a fan club that can't win.

[Ocklawaha]

WELCOME ABOARD FLIPSIDE!

http://ocklawahavalley.ning.com/


BURBANK FLORIDA, the station isn't shown, and talk about loss, someone just tore down the old gingerbread church within the last 10 years... It WAS a home. Burbank was part of the huge land company promotion of "colonys" anchored to the RR.

THAT was the whole idea... hee, hee. I didn't think it would draw a soul, as not even the railroad nutz in Florida have a clue about that most interesting line. OOPS blew my cover.

Of course anyone can join, but don't expect any fan trips or newsletters. The site is updated as I uncover more of the weird twisted story of this line. One of the latest twists is the CORPORATION COMMISSION reports the company was "active" until 1974!  If you want to hike it, it's got several great entry points and the old Rodman site is now a preserve, they are very proactive presservationists and love guests. Word of warning, that preserve has Rattle Snakes longer then the OV trains, better wait till COLD weather.

OCKLAWAHA

[heights unknown]

What a travesty, crown jewels 80% of them and demolished, torn down, obliterated for the sake of parking lots (most of them) and failed developments or plans.

Heights Unknown

[mtraininjax]

Makes me want to cry. WoW downtown JAX was beautiful. Reminds me of Louisville...well before they tore down all those buildings.

Yes, we did have some great buildings at one time, but the problem is not the buildings, its the people. When the people stop using the buildings, they become outdated, eyesores, maintenance begins to lag and they are seen as expendable.

The lesson is to go see the buildings in exhistence, celebrate them with others. City Hall is still alive because the City leadership chose to use it and save it. Same for the Haverty's building.

Forget about saving what is already down, worry about saving what still remains and is not in the public favor.