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Clem1029
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 10:46:58 AM » |
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As a Cleveland native, I was surprised to see the Euclid Corridor project mentioned here, although it does make for a good comparison. I want to provide a little context to the EC route to give everyone and idea of exactly what is along that orange line, if nothing else than to compare that line with some of what JTA and MetroJax are proposing.
Looking at Euclid Ave downtown from it's start at Public Square to about where it crosses I-90, the following are either right on the street, or a 5 minute walk:
Tower City Center (this is basically the hub of downtown - it's a mall, has 2 high end historical hotels (Ritz & Renaissance), all of the public transit rail lines come through here, including the local downtown Waterfront line connecting to the Flats, Browns Stadium, and the Rock Hall and Science Center, with walkways connecting it to Gateway (Progressive Field and Quicken Loans Arena, direct connection to one of the two outdoor concert venues downtonw) and the new courthouse). If you're taking public transit into downtown Cleveland, Tower City is a very likely destination.
BP Building, Fifth Third Building, Key Center, etc etc - basically 90% of all the downtown Cleveland office space is within a 5-10 min walk of Euclid.
East 4th Street - a newer (last 5 or so years) entertainment district including House of Blues, an unbelievably good restaurant/comedy club/martini bar, a higher end bowling alley, and a bunch of other restaurants.
Playhouse Square - Cleveland theater district, has 4 or 5 historical theaters that see a lot of national shows come through. It's one of the biggest theater districts outside of the New Yorks and Torontos.
Cleveland State University - Cleveland's public downtown university.
You basically have all of that along the first 2 miles of Euclid Ave. However, once you get past CSU, things get a little hairy. The comment from the article that "...East Cleveland, which few locals will argue is the city's roughest, most rundown and unsalvageable parts of the area" is an absolute truth. Most people (and particularly westsiders like myself) don't hit East Cleveland unless is absolutely critical. It's a pretty depressing drive. I understand the argument that the Euclid Corridor project might improve the area, but I don't buy it. I'll address that more towards the end.
With all of that said however, there IS a good reason to make that drive from time to time. You see that little jog to the northeast about midway through the route? That's the Cleveland Clinic - widely regarded as one of the best medical centers in the world. The drive to the Clinic is astounding - you get outside of downtown and it's the most economically depressed urban drive you've ever been on, then BAM - here's this world class medical center. The Clinic campus is huge, and there's an Omni Intercontinental hotel there as well. Again, definitely a viable destination for a transit project.
From there to the northeast, you get a somewhat improving view. Where Mayfield Road intersects the corridor you've got small cultural pocket areas like Coventry and Little Italy. You also have two more universities - Case Western Reserve University (it might just go by Case now...most locals (and former locals) like myself still refer to it as Case Western) and John Carroll University, both of which are well regarded schools (Case especially is an outstanding engineering university). If my memory is not failing me, along that route you've also got the hall that's the home of the Cleveland Orchestra, as well as the museum district.
So yeah...there's a LOT going down along the Euclid corridor, even considering the issues from downtown to the Clinic. Even from my limited descriptions, it's obvious it's a corridor that could desperately use some sort of transit system.
Here's my problem with the Euclid Corridor project - outside of the major players (most of which I listed above), the project OBLITERATED local businesses. Let's be honest - stuff like Cleveland State or Tower City aren't going to go anywhere. But the construction for the project was an absolute disaster. When I visited a year ago, the construction was horrendous, traffic routing was miserable, and it was obvious that it was keeping people from coming downtown, and the result was not only destroying local stores because of the lack of traffic, but even small business relocated from downtown to the inner ring suburbs (Lakewood being a big location - they were one of a few inner ring suburbs that put a ton of incentives out for small business to relocate there). The big boys stayed, but when you've got an economically depressed city as it is (and Cleveland is hurting big time), overspending on a project that might provide a boost down the line, but during the project drives people and business out of the city anyways is NOT a good use of funding. And when you blow up the small business portion of the route for the corridor downtown, explain to me how exactly the project is supposed to revitalize the East Cleveland area between Cleveland State and the Clinic?
Don't get me wrong - there's still an outside chance this project could work out. Let's be honest here (and this isn't meant to be an insult around here, just stating it as I see it) - downtown Cleveland, far and away, has more to attract people to come in and enjoy than Downtown Jacksonville. I'm not saying Jax couldn't get there eventually, but looking at right now, Downtown Cleveland wins. So there's always going to be a draw for people to come in...as such, they might utilize the EC project more, and you might see the EC redevelop into something big. More likely, ridership is going to stay way low, they'll have spent way too much on the system, and the business that left won't be coming back.
So let's bring this back to the JTA BRT discussion. I understand the idea is going to be a bit larger than just the EC project, so a direct comparison will be tough as I don't think Jax has a one shot corridor like Euclid that has so much along it, which is good and bad. The EC project could get pushed because the old bus route along Euclid was one of the most popular in the city. Are JTA's proposed BRT lines along the most traveled routes in the city, or are we in a Field of Dreams "if you build it they will ride" mentality here? If it is along a highly traveled route, how do they plan to deal with the inevitable business impact that construction for a massive BRT system will entail? And if it's the Field of Dreams scenario, help out a newbie - where has extending a BRT system where there's no popular bus route drastically increased ridership to justify the expense?
I've totally bought into the rail + Skyway + BRT/Streetcar feeder concept around here. I think the Euclid Corridor project could have greatly benefited from that approach. For JTA though, I think this all boils down to a simple question -
How do you prevent causing even MORE sprawl during the years it will take to construct the BRT system?
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