Author Topic: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials  (Read 9091 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2017, 03:05:12 PM »
^I get what you're saying. Me and my siblings were raised the same way. We were raised that being black men, things aren't far and that you'll just have to work twice as hard to make it.  Just because things are systematically set up against you doesn't mean you let them define you.  I totally get that.  With that said, I also believe when the knock of opportunity comes to bring dialogue, debate and exposure to history in a way that finally leads to change, open the door.

In this particular case, I'll personally be fine regardless of how Jacksonville does or does not address its actual history.  However, I do believe Jacksonville will have a much better economic and image enhancing future, if it moves into the 21st century by finally addressing some of this stuff.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:08:20 PM by thelakelander »
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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2017, 03:38:06 PM »
You know what pisses me off more than the actual white supremacists, KKK and neo-Nazi's?  The people that don't care.  The people that shrug and say, "Doesn't affect me."  It by default grants permission to the oppressors and hate groups to keep going.  Martin Niemöller warned us about such apathy.  You only give a damn when it's about you.

If I have to read that stupid Niemoller quote again, I'm going to hurl.

(Nothing against Niemoller or her quote, per se, but more a comment on the people posting it A LOT on social media these days).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:40:12 PM by Adam White »
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Jim

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2017, 03:49:36 PM »
So if I apply that to the recent discussion on monuments, I would say "dont let who you are be defined by a culture that is obsolete and reflected in old monuments"
Obsolescence is up for debate. Tell Heather Heyer's family that they obsolete.  Look at what is brewing here.  White supremacists, the KKK and neo-Nazi's are here, today, present tense.

And nobody is saying let that culture define you.  What we are saying is the civilized world should have moved beyond such nonsense. 

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 03:56:30 PM »
And nobody is saying let that culture define you.  What we are saying is the civilized world should have moved beyond such nonsense.

Well said. We've got to confront our past or we'll never move on.
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thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2017, 09:40:45 AM »
Myself and others have asked... Where does it end?  Washington?  Jefferson?  To me, the answer to the question begins with a straightforward test: Was the person to whom a monument is erected on public property devoted to the American experiment in liberty and self-government?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/opinion/why-lee-should-go-and-washington-should-stay.html?ref=opinion

Quote
Why Lee Should Go, and Washington Should Stay
By JON MEACHAMAUG. 21, 2017

Nashville — I grew up on Missionary Ridge, a Civil War battlefield overlooking Chattanooga, Tenn. In my childhood we could still find minie balls from the battle in which a young Union soldier, Arthur MacArthur, the father of Douglas, received the Medal of Honor. The war’s relics were real and tangible — I still have a few on my desk as I write — and so were the war’s perennial and tragic consequences.

I remember the smoke rising from downtown riots in 1980 after an all-white jury acquitted two Ku Klux Klansmen in the drive-by shotgun shootings of four black women. (A third Klan defendant was convicted only of reduced charges.) It was a stunning verdict. “Good God,” my grandfather, a retired judge, remarked of the jurors. “They didn’t let the facts get in the way.”

Facts, as John Adams said, are stubborn things — and, for Southerners, they are also often uncomfortable. If we don’t face them forthrightly, we risk living in worlds of fantasy and fable, subject not to reason, the greatest of gifts, but susceptible to passion, the most dangerous of forces. In such alternative realities, the Civil War was not about slavery but about what neo-Confederates refer to as “heritage.”

So let’s talk facts. From Baltimore to New Orleans, cities across the South are removing statues of Confederate figures from public property — memorials often built as emblems of defiance to federal authority in the post-Reconstruction period and in the Warren Court years of the 1950s and ’60s. The white-supremacist and neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Va., this month was occasioned by the city’s decision to take down a Robert E. Lee statue.

In the ensuing chaos, President Trump spoke of the “many sides” of the debate and defended the neo-Confederate view. “I wonder,” Mr. Trump said, “is it George Washington next week, and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”

To me, the answer to Mr. Trump’s question begins with a straightforward test: Was the person to whom a monument is erected on public property devoted to the American experiment in liberty and self-government? Washington and Jefferson and Andrew Jackson were. Each owned slaves; each was largely a creature of his time and place on matters of race. Yet each also believed in the transcendent significance of the nation, and each was committed to the journey toward “a more perfect Union.”

By definition, the Confederate hierarchy fails that test. Those who took up arms against the Union were explicitly attempting to stop the American odyssey. While we should judge each individual on the totality of their lives (defenders of Lee, for instance, point to his attempts to be a figure of reconciliation after the war), the forces of hate and of exclusion long ago made Confederate imagery their own. Monuments in public places of veneration to those who believed it their duty to fight the Union have no place in the Union of the 21st century — a view with which Lee himself might have agreed. “I think it wiser,” he wrote in 1866, “not to keep open the sores of war.”

Of course, Lee lost that struggle, too, and my home state is dealing with just this issue at the moment. In 1973, the Sons of Confederate Veterans raised money to install a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest, the Southern cavalry commander and early leader of the Klan, in the state capitol.

It’s ahistoric to judge figures from the past by our own moral standards. Yet we need not contort ourselves to find Forrest wanting as an object of veneration. He was condemned for outrages and atrocities in his own time. One example: the massacre at Fort Pillow in April 1864, in western Tennessee, where Forrest’s men “cruelly butchered every colored soldier they could lay hands upon,” according to a report in The Chicago Tribune not long after.

More than a century and a half on, the battle over Forrest’s memory here may offer lessons for others. Taken as a whole, my state was always ambivalent about the Confederacy. In February 1861 a majority of its voters opposed a proposed secession convention, with pro-Union sentiment particularly strong in the more mountainous eastern region of the state. Then came Fort Sumter and the federal call to fight the secessionists, and secession carried the day at last.

By the end of the war, 120,000 Tennesseans had fought for the Confederacy, but a significant number, 31,000, took up arms for the Union. As historians have noted, that meant Tennessee alone provided the federal forces with more soldiers than all other seceded states combined.

Given its history during the Confederate era, then, Tennessee has the capacity to be more reasonable in the neo-Confederate one. According to a 2016 law, the removal of a monument like the one to Forrest requires either an act of the General Assembly or a two-thirds vote of the state’s historical commission, most of whom are appointed by the governor. And the position of Gov. Bill Haslam, a popular Republican, is clear: It’s time for the Forrest bust to go. “I don’t believe Nathan Bedford Forrest should be one of the individuals we honor at the Capitol,” he said. “That history should be put in a museum, not in a place of honor.”

“There will never be peace in Tennessee,” Union Gen. William T. Sherman once said, “until Forrest is dead.” Like his more celebrated remark that war is hell, Sherman was onto something. The good news in this grim period of 2017 is that reasonable Southerners may be ready to give peace a chance.

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spuwho

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »
I have been researching these monuments and what drove many of them to be stood up in the first place.

During reconstruction, few were stood up. It seems it was during the 1890's there was a boom in CSA related monument building.

After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

Its an interesting historical/cultural research.

KenFSU

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2017, 01:33:05 PM »
Vandals pulled the sign off of Robert E. Lee high:

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-08-24/jacksonville-s-lee-high-school-signs-vandalized-then-letters-removed-district

If the T-U is to be believed "controversey" is the proper spelling of the word, and Robert E. Lee was the president of the confederacy:

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2017, 03:00:47 PM »
I have been researching these monuments and what drove many of them to be stood up in the first place.

During reconstruction, few were stood up. It seems it was during the 1890's there was a boom in CSA related monument building.

After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

Its an interesting historical/cultural research.

I'm pretty certain it had far more to do with Plessy vs Ferguson in 1896 along with hundreds of states and local laws that were racially repressive during the next 2 decades than an economic crash in 1893.

thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2017, 03:11:01 PM »
I have been researching these monuments and what drove many of them to be stood up in the first place.

During reconstruction, few were stood up. It seems it was during the 1890's there was a boom in CSA related monument building.

After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

Its an interesting historical/cultural research.

I believe the story is much more complex than this. The erection of Civil War monuments for Union and CSA veterans boomed all over the country between the 1880s and WWI. Nationally, part of it had to do with veterans aging, dying off, communities looking to assert  reinforce whatever doctrine their political power structures desired and a hand full of northern monument companies cashing in. I find it funny that we have over 2,500 mass produced monuments around the country.  This is like the forerunner to the suburban tract house. Take a look at our Union monument and compare to the two in the article below:



Quote
Why those Confederate soldier statues look a lot like their Union counterparts


At left, a Monumental Bronze Co. sculpture of a Union soldier, erected in Westfield, N.J., in 1889. On the right, a sculpture of a Confederate soldier, by the same company, erected in Windsor, N.C., in 1898. (Sarah Beetham)

The nameless figure, known to many as the Silent Sentinel, gazes over town squares and courthouse steps in dozens of Southern towns — but not just there.

Many of the South’s Silent Sentinels turn out to be identical to the statues of Union soldiers that decorate hundreds of public spaces across the North. Identical, but for one detail: On the soldier’s belt buckle, the “U.S.” is replaced by a “C.S.” for “Confederate States.”

It turns out that a campaign in the late 19th century to memorialize the Civil War by erecting monuments was not only an attempt to honor Southern soldiers or white supremacy. It was also a remarkably successful bit of marketing sleight of hand in which New England monument companies sold the same statues to towns and citizens groups on both sides of the Civil War divide.

It took some years before Southern customers caught on and sought to buy statues of soldiers who were more obviously Grays rather than Blues. Statue manufacturers eventually gave their Confederate models a slouch hat instead of the Union topper that looked more like a baseball cap, and a short shell jacket rather than the North’s greatcoat, and a bedroll to replace the Union man’s knapsack.

But dozens of statues North and South are all but precise copies....

Quote
...In the case of the Confederate statues that have turned into powerful and, to many, disturbing symbols more than 150 years after the war, the Southern women who paid for most of the statues between 1880 and 1920 said they wanted a place to honor their fallen husbands and fathers. But the communities that erected those statues were also looking for a way to assert their doctrine of white supremacy at a time when they were passing Jim Crow laws to codify the separation of the races.

To the Monumental Bronze Co. in Bridgeport, Conn., it was all just business. Union or Confederate, a customer was a customer, another $450 for a zinc statue that could mean whatever you needed it to mean....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-those-confederate-soldier-statues-look-a-lot-like-their-union-counterparts/2017/08/18/cefcc1bc-8394-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.af31062abff2

Then there's what took place locally, which is most likely different for various communities across the country.  During Reconstruction, our political structure was Republican and led by loyalist like Ossian B. Hart.  African-Americans held plenty of positions within that government. I can't imagine it being a coincidence that as early as 1868, we named Stanton after US Secretary of War Edwin Stanton.  It's also not surprising that this era led to our mass produced Union monument popping up in Evergreen Cemetery in 1891, seven years before the Confederate monument in Hemming went up. By the time the Hemming monument went back up, the political structure had transitioned to Democratic control, leading to Jim Crow.  This summary of the Hemming statue from the COJ Historic Preservation Office sums this transition period up nicely:

Quote
The Confederate Monument reflects a period during the late 19th and early 20th centuries when memorials were being erected in towns and cities in both the North and South to honor Civil War veterans.  By this time, the number of living veterans was declining and first- hand memories of the war were being erased.  These monuments were being erected earlier in the North because of the South’s war-ravaged economy and Republican political control during Reconstruction.  The movement to erect markers and monuments in the South usually started with the initiative of women’s organizations such as the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Ladies Memorial Associations.  In more recent years, discussion has been generated about whether these Civil War memorials in the South had intentional or unintentional political meaning at the time beyond memory and sacrifice.  In the South, most of these memorials were erected after states were considered “redeemed” by white democrats from political control by Republicans.  This political redemption was closely followed by Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise and segregate blacks.  It has also been suggested that erection of these monuments in both the North and the South represented a symbolic unification of the two regions as attention was being directed on developing economic partnerships and less on civil rights for blacks.  However, many of the Confederate memorials, such as in Jacksonville, were erected years after the state was back under Democratic control.  Similar Civil War monuments in Jacksonville during this period include the Monument to Women of the Confederacy completed in 1915 under the sponsorship of the Florida Division-United Confederate veterans and a statue in the Evergreen Cemetery privately placed to honor members of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR).
 
The most common type of monument used was the “silent sentinel” as found in Hemming Park.  It is usually a single soldier at “parade rest” with his hands holding the end of the musket barrel.  The number of “silent sentinel” erected is estimated to be over 2,500 spread out over thirty states with more than a thousand found in the South.  The “silent sentinel” monuments were all made in the North, particularly in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Ohio, using Italian marble or New England granite.  The monument in Hemming Park was made and erected by a Chicago company owned by George H. Mitchell.  Born in 1848, George Mitchell followed in his father’s footsteps as a stone cutter working in his native state of Massachusetts.  By 1887, Mitchell had relocated his business to Chicago where he developed a reputation for making large monuments and mausoleums.  He died on February 28, 1905 in Hinsdale, DuPage, Illinois.[1]
 
The “Silent Sentinel” did not represent any particular person although in some locations people found the soldier to bear a resemblance to a local resident.  For example in Jacksonville, the soldier was supposedly modeled after a local resident and Confederate veteran, Leonard Dozier.  Later moving to Ocala where Dozier served for a time as postmaster, the Ocala Evening Star (June 16, 1898) stated, “The star is pleased to say that the figure of the soldier that adorns the apex of the Hemming monument is intended to represent in marble what Len Dozier typified as an ideal soldier.  The honor is great, but the subject is worthy of the great distinction”.  However his name was not on the dedication program or mentioned as the model for the statue during the two-day celebration.  The bronze soldier does have the letters J.L.F., Jacksonville Light Infantry, in the cap which was probably done at the request of Charles Hemming.[2]

Sidenote, I wonder how authentic the Hemming monument really is. George H. Mitchell of Chicago was in the same market as the Monumental Bronze Company.  Here's a similar concept from George H. Mitchell for an 1891 Union monument in Mount Carroll, IL:



The Union one is a little more elaborate, but you can definitely see the design similarities.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2017, 05:27:08 PM »
I have been researching these monuments and what drove many of them to be stood up in the first place.

During reconstruction, few were stood up. It seems it was during the 1890's there was a boom in CSA related monument building.

After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

Its an interesting historical/cultural research.

I believe the story is much more complex than this. The erection of Civil War monuments for Union and CSA veterans boomed all over the country between the 1880s and WWI. Nationally, part of it had to do with veterans aging, dying off, communities looking to assert  reinforce whatever doctrine their political power structures desired and a hand full of northern monument companies cashing in. I find it funny that we have over 2,500 mass produced monuments around the country.  This is like the forerunner to the suburban tract house. Take a look at our Union monument and compare to the two in the article below:



Quote
Why those Confederate soldier statues look a lot like their Union counterparts


At left, a Monumental Bronze Co. sculpture of a Union soldier, erected in Westfield, N.J., in 1889. On the right, a sculpture of a Confederate soldier, by the same company, erected in Windsor, N.C., in 1898. (Sarah Beetham)

The nameless figure, known to many as the Silent Sentinel, gazes over town squares and courthouse steps in dozens of Southern towns — but not just there.

Many of the South’s Silent Sentinels turn out to be identical to the statues of Union soldiers that decorate hundreds of public spaces across the North. Identical, but for one detail: On the soldier’s belt buckle, the “U.S.” is replaced by a “C.S.” for “Confederate States.”

It turns out that a campaign in the late 19th century to memorialize the Civil War by erecting monuments was not only an attempt to honor Southern soldiers or white supremacy. It was also a remarkably successful bit of marketing sleight of hand in which New England monument companies sold the same statues to towns and citizens groups on both sides of the Civil War divide.

It took some years before Southern customers caught on and sought to buy statues of soldiers who were more obviously Grays rather than Blues. Statue manufacturers eventually gave their Confederate models a slouch hat instead of the Union topper that looked more like a baseball cap, and a short shell jacket rather than the North’s greatcoat, and a bedroll to replace the Union man’s knapsack.

But dozens of statues North and South are all but precise copies....

Quote
...In the case of the Confederate statues that have turned into powerful and, to many, disturbing symbols more than 150 years after the war, the Southern women who paid for most of the statues between 1880 and 1920 said they wanted a place to honor their fallen husbands and fathers. But the communities that erected those statues were also looking for a way to assert their doctrine of white supremacy at a time when they were passing Jim Crow laws to codify the separation of the races.

To the Monumental Bronze Co. in Bridgeport, Conn., it was all just business. Union or Confederate, a customer was a customer, another $450 for a zinc statue that could mean whatever you needed it to mean....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-those-confederate-soldier-statues-look-a-lot-like-their-union-counterparts/2017/08/18/cefcc1bc-8394-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?utm_term=.af31062abff2

Then there's what took place locally, which is most likely different for various communities across the country.  During Reconstruction, our political structure was Republican and led by loyalist like Ossian B. Hart.  African-Americans held plenty of positions within that government. I can't imagine it being a coincidence that as early as 1868, we named Stanton after US Secretary of War Edwin Stanton.  It's also not surprising that this era led to our mass produced Union monument popping up in Evergreen Cemetery in 1891, seven years before the Confederate monument in Hemming went up. By the time the Hemming monument went back up, the political structure had transitioned to Democratic control, leading to Jim Crow.  This summary of the Hemming statue from the COJ Historic Preservation Office sums this transition period up nicely:

Quote
The Confederate Monument reflects a period during the late 19th and early 20th centuries when memorials were being erected in towns and cities in both the North and South to honor Civil War veterans.  By this time, the number of living veterans was declining and first- hand memories of the war were being erased.  These monuments were being erected earlier in the North because of the South’s war-ravaged economy and Republican political control during Reconstruction.  The movement to erect markers and monuments in the South usually started with the initiative of women’s organizations such as the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Ladies Memorial Associations.  In more recent years, discussion has been generated about whether these Civil War memorials in the South had intentional or unintentional political meaning at the time beyond memory and sacrifice.  In the South, most of these memorials were erected after states were considered “redeemed” by white democrats from political control by Republicans.  This political redemption was closely followed by Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise and segregate blacks.  It has also been suggested that erection of these monuments in both the North and the South represented a symbolic unification of the two regions as attention was being directed on developing economic partnerships and less on civil rights for blacks.  However, many of the Confederate memorials, such as in Jacksonville, were erected years after the state was back under Democratic control.  Similar Civil War monuments in Jacksonville during this period include the Monument to Women of the Confederacy completed in 1915 under the sponsorship of the Florida Division-United Confederate veterans and a statue in the Evergreen Cemetery privately placed to honor members of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR).
 
The most common type of monument used was the “silent sentinel” as found in Hemming Park.  It is usually a single soldier at “parade rest” with his hands holding the end of the musket barrel.  The number of “silent sentinel” erected is estimated to be over 2,500 spread out over thirty states with more than a thousand found in the South.  The “silent sentinel” monuments were all made in the North, particularly in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Ohio, using Italian marble or New England granite.  The monument in Hemming Park was made and erected by a Chicago company owned by George H. Mitchell.  Born in 1848, George Mitchell followed in his father’s footsteps as a stone cutter working in his native state of Massachusetts.  By 1887, Mitchell had relocated his business to Chicago where he developed a reputation for making large monuments and mausoleums.  He died on February 28, 1905 in Hinsdale, DuPage, Illinois.[1]
 
The “Silent Sentinel” did not represent any particular person although in some locations people found the soldier to bear a resemblance to a local resident.  For example in Jacksonville, the soldier was supposedly modeled after a local resident and Confederate veteran, Leonard Dozier.  Later moving to Ocala where Dozier served for a time as postmaster, the Ocala Evening Star (June 16, 1898) stated, “The star is pleased to say that the figure of the soldier that adorns the apex of the Hemming monument is intended to represent in marble what Len Dozier typified as an ideal soldier.  The honor is great, but the subject is worthy of the great distinction”.  However his name was not on the dedication program or mentioned as the model for the statue during the two-day celebration.  The bronze soldier does have the letters J.L.F., Jacksonville Light Infantry, in the cap which was probably done at the request of Charles Hemming.[2]

Sidenote, I wonder how authentic the Hemming monument really is. George H. Mitchell of Chicago was in the same market as the Monumental Bronze Company.  Here's a similar concept from George H. Mitchell for an 1891 Union monument in Mount Carroll, IL:



The Union one is a little more elaborate, but you can definitely see the design similarities.

More than anything, the Civil War was one of the bloodiest conflicts the world had seen until that time, and both sides were Americans. The put it in perspective, the loss of American life was worse than any other war, and in fact rivals the combined output of *all* conflicts we've ever been in, even though our total population today is much higher than it was then. There are monuments to earlier wars and their veterans, but in terms of our losses, we've never faced anything of comparable scale before or since the Civil War. With many lost in every town and county, it's not surprising that the Civil War created the most monuments.

Southerners were mostly forbidden from erecting monuments before Reconstruction ended in 1877. They started going up pretty immediately after that. St. Augustine built one on private property in 1872, and rebuilt it in the Plaza de la Constitucion in 1879 after Reconstruction ended, pretty steadily.

But that doesn't explain why they really exploded only in the 1890s into the 1920s. That would be like Vietnam memorials really taking off today. Additionally, the monuments of that generation had less and less to do with the soldiers, and were more about celebrating the Confederacy, its generals and statesmen, and abstract ideas like our "Women of the Southern Confederacy" monument.

It's the same time frame that Jim Crow led to the "nadir of American race relations", and white Southerners finally cut down the last vestiges of the gains of Reconstruction. Locally, this is when the Old City Cemetery plots and grandstand were built, Confederate Park was renamed, the Jacksonville's Women of the Southern Confederacy was erected, and the namings of Kirby-Smith and Robert E. Lee schools took place. It's also when Palatka got a Confederate monument and the Olustee battlefield was preserved and marked with a large Confederate monument, and no Union markers. After this period, there were few notable local Confederate memorials until the 1950s, the Civil Rights era.
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spuwho

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2017, 11:11:31 PM »
I have been researching these monuments and what drove many of them to be stood up in the first place.

During reconstruction, few were stood up. It seems it was during the 1890's there was a boom in CSA related monument building.

After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

Its an interesting historical/cultural research.

I'm pretty certain it had far more to do with Plessy vs Ferguson in 1896 along with hundreds of states and local laws that were racially repressive during the next 2 decades than an economic crash in 1893.

I never expected my brief research to be exhaustive by any means.

I wanted to see what was happening in the general life and culture that would lead to so much monument building.

True the Civil War impacted every state, but what drove it to happen some 20 years after?

It was a pov I hadnt heard much on and so I was checking it out.

thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2017, 06:13:31 AM »
Quote
After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

The description ignores/radically minimizes the racial reality of what was happening across the south during the 1890s.  It glazes over the increase in lynchings, poll taxes, literacy requirements and other vesitages of the lily-white movement. It's romantizing history in a manner that's very similar to how the "Lost Cause" minimizes the role of slavery and racial oppression.  No way around it, this era can't be sugar coated.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

spuwho

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2017, 09:43:13 AM »
Quote
After the Panic of 1893, the south and the west became extremely populist due to resentment of financial manipulations going on in NYC and Washington DC.

Many CSA veterans, now in their 50-60's resented what they considered anathema to the life they fought for with control centered in the north.

In response, many of the statues and monuments were stood up as a reminder that at one time there were people who fought against the treachery of a federal government.

The description ignores/radically minimizes the racial reality of what was happening across the south during the 1890s.  It glazes over the increase in lynchings, poll taxes, literacy requirements and other vesitages of the lily-white movement. It's romantizing history in a manner that's very similar to how the "Lost Cause" minimizes the role of slavery and racial oppression.  No way around it, this era can't be sugar coated.

As I said earlier, it was not meant to be exhaustive, just a snapshot of what was happening at the time. Just another POV not a sugar coating.

Things happening in one space does not negate actions in the others. It is additive.

thelakelander

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Re: Jacksonville’s Civil War Memorials
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2017, 10:18:26 AM »
Totally understandable. I was just pointing out it's not really applicable to what was taking place in Jax at the time, based on detailed historical information on our history from multiple reliable sources.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali