Author Topic: Jacksonville City Council President calls for Confederate memorials to be moved  (Read 4932 times)

Josh

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A very telling graph

https://imgur.com/OjMWPzm

[img]https://i.imgur.com/OjMWPzm.jpg[img]

What does the represent?  Needs more context.

Whoops, didn't see that the header isn't included. It's a timeline of the creation of confederate monuments.

Tacachale

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A very telling graph

https://imgur.com/OjMWPzm

[img]https://i.imgur.com/OjMWPzm.jpg[img]

What does the represent?  Needs more context.

Whoops, didn't see that the header isn't included. It's a timeline of the creation of confederate monuments.

It comes from this Southern Poverty Law Center report. I'm not sure how accurate it really is, but it does seem to be the case that monuments spiked during the "Nadir of race relations" in the early 20th century and again during the 1950s and 60s Civil Rights movement.
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage_splc.pdf
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RattlerGator

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I've said on here before, change the name of the park back to what it was. Or change it to something new. But change it; that's proper and doesn't disrespect anyone or any group.

But leave the monuments alone. Add to them? Sure. But leave them in place.

We need to take advantage of this moment in an American way, not a divisive way. Not a good white folks / bad white folks way. Not a Northern / Southern way.

Meaning honor the Union and Confederate, the freeman and the slave, the native and the immigrant, the sharecropper and the plantation owner. There's enough honor for all good efforts, disrespect for all bad efforts. No one individual or group is blame-less or sin-free.

It's time to quit shitting on people and pointing fingers, trying to make them feel guilty about something or another. None of us should be guilty about our individual or group history. This is demonstrably the greatest nation on earth and we're justifiably proud of all its history -- all of it -- because we understand the ebb and flow of life; we know the word slave is a derivation of SLAV and it reminds us that all people have been enslaved at one historic time or another; we know that black people enslaved other black people, white people enslaved other white people, etc.

Let us fix up Dignan Park and put our 21st Century stamp on it, while honoring what it originally was, has been, and will be in the future.

Jim

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Why does one group of people believe they should be able to tell another group of people how they feel about a current or historic event?

Why does one group think the other wants to guilt trip their way to a historical eraser rather than a respectful acknowledgement of the modern impact of historical issues?

Murder_me_Rachel

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We need to take advantage of this moment in an American way, not a divisive way. Not a good white folks / bad white folks way. Not a Northern / Southern way.

Meaning honor the Union and Confederate, the freeman and the slave, the native and the immigrant, the sharecropper and the plantation owner. There's enough honor for all good efforts, disrespect for all bad efforts. No one individual or group is blame-less or sin-free.

It's time to quit shitting on people and pointing fingers, trying to make them feel guilty about something or another. None of us should be guilty about our individual or group history. This is demonstrably the greatest nation on earth and we're justifiably proud of all its history -- all of it -- because we understand the ebb and flow of life; we know the word slave is a derivation of SLAV and it reminds us that all people have been enslaved at one historic time or another; we know that black people enslaved other black people, white people enslaved other white people, etc.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. We do not celebrate traitors who fought against our country so they could enslave other people.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, these statutes were erected as a response to the civil rights movement-- to shove this shit in black folks' faces.  These statutes were DESIGNED to be divisive.  This false equivalency ("OHHHH, WON'T SOMEONE PUHLEAZE THINK OF THE POOR WHITE FOLKS?!?!?") needs to stop NOW.  We don't celebrate the confederacy.  Fuck these statutes and anyone's wishy-washy defense of them. This is NOT a two-sided issue.  If you have a problem with the statutes being removed, then you are part of the problem. 

Jim

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We need to take advantage of this moment in an American way, not a divisive way. Not a good white folks / bad white folks way. Not a Northern / Southern way.

Meaning honor the Union and Confederate, the freeman and the slave, the native and the immigrant, the sharecropper and the plantation owner. There's enough honor for all good efforts, disrespect for all bad efforts. No one individual or group is blame-less or sin-free.

It's time to quit shitting on people and pointing fingers, trying to make them feel guilty about something or another. None of us should be guilty about our individual or group history. This is demonstrably the greatest nation on earth and we're justifiably proud of all its history -- all of it -- because we understand the ebb and flow of life; we know the word slave is a derivation of SLAV and it reminds us that all people have been enslaved at one historic time or another; we know that black people enslaved other black people, white people enslaved other white people, etc.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. We do not celebrate traitors who fought against our country so they could enslave other people.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, these statutes were erected as a response to the civil rights movement-- to shove this shit in black folks' faces.  These statutes were DESIGNED to be divisive.  This false equivalency ("OHHHH, WON'T SOMEONE PUHLEAZE THINK OF THE POOR WHITE FOLKS?!?!?") needs to stop NOW.  We don't celebrate the confederacy.  Fuck these statutes and anyone's wishy-washy defense of them. This is NOT a two-sided issue.  If you have a problem with the statutes being removed, then you are part of the problem. 

This right here, needed to be said.

camarocane

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MORE IMPORTANTLY, these statutes were erected as a response to the civil rights movement-- to shove this shit in black folks' faces.

When were these statues erected?

Jim

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MORE IMPORTANTLY, these statutes were erected as a response to the civil rights movement-- to shove this shit in black folks' faces.

When were these statues erected?

A very telling graph.

A timeline of when these confederate monuments were created.

https://imgur.com/OjMWPzm



Cheshire Cat

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"JAX Chamber has a long history of working to ensure equal opportunity for all people.  We believe in the dignity, goodness and respect of all citizens. We vehemently condemn individuals and groups that promote the despicable acts of prejudice, hate, discrimination, bigotry and racism which have no place in our community.

"We support the effort to inventory all of Jacksonville’s public monuments and conduct a swift, honest and thoughtful look at who we honor, and more importantly, who is missing from our public landscape. Discussions should include how we heal wounds that may still persist from our past.  Among those should be a consideration of how we memorialize our city’s history in public spaces, and will most certainly involve additional tributes to Jacksonville’s historical leaders.



http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jax-chamber-issues-statement-on-confederate-statue-removal
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camarocane

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Interesting, but I was referring to the monuments in question. Seems they predate the civil rights movement by quite a few years.
Regardless, based on the data above many schools were named during the civil rights era, seems logical for this to occur as a response to desegregation. However, the same logic does not apply to the construction of our monuments in Jacksonville. I would imagine a good many confederate vets were dying off during the 1900s - 1910s.

Cheshire Cat

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Interesting, but I was referring to the monuments in question. Seems they predate the civil rights movement by quite a few years.
Regardless, based on the data above many schools were named during the civil rights era, seems logical for this to occur as a response to desegregation. However, the same logic does not apply to the construction of our monuments in Jacksonville. I would imagine a good many confederate vets were dying off during the 1900s - 1910s.
The city intends to take an inventory of the statues.  I am sure they will find out which where placed where when.
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Jim

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Interesting, but I was referring to the monuments in question. Seems they predate the civil rights movement by quite a few years.
Regardless, based on the data above many schools were named during the civil rights era, seems logical for this to occur as a response to desegregation. However, the same logic does not apply to the construction of our monuments in Jacksonville. I would imagine a good many confederate vets were dying off during the 1900s - 1910s.
Somewhere in this thread, or the other one, was a great break down of the times and reasons for some of the more prominent statues here.  You may have to scroll around or check a couple of other threads but the information you seek was provided.