Author Topic: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back  (Read 22946 times)

mtraininjax

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #240 on: August 14, 2017, 10:20:25 AM »
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thelakelander

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #241 on: August 14, 2017, 11:08:50 AM »
so when did the landing not have a food hall?

the second floor is one.  many restaurant spaces downstairs.

nobody went there, nobody wants to, and no businesses will sign leases.  Now put a walgreens or a bealls in there?  LOOK OUT!!

The Landing has a food court....that should be turned into revenue generating restaurant space, IMO.  It has never had a food hall. The difference between a food court and food hall is authenticity...

http://brandxventures.com/2017/07/11/food-halls-vs-food-courts-whats-difference/
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 11:10:36 AM by thelakelander »
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KenFSU

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #242 on: August 17, 2017, 12:50:45 PM »
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copperfiend

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #243 on: August 17, 2017, 01:38:12 PM »
ESCALATION.

Curry wants the Landing back "RIGHT NOW."

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/curry-wants-the-jacksonville-landing-back-right-now



Hopefully something can get done. The Landing in it's current state is an embarrassment.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #244 on: August 17, 2017, 10:15:06 PM »
Are downtown's fortunes so staked on this single property that it requires this kind of escalation and confrontation? 

I'm so confused by Jacksonville's vision for its Downtown.  What's the end goal? 

Here in NYC, no one wants to live near the convention center (Jacob Javitz), no one wants to live by penn station/madison square garden (sports complex), certainly not in the shadow of any of the sports stadiums, not near City Hall or the Courthouses, and definitely not in Times Square (tourist hell). 

When people do live in those places, they're sort of forced there because it's so tough to find rentals at prices most can afford.

If people here in NYC could afford it, they'd live in a low-rise brownstone along tree-lined streets and amidst the pocket parks of the West Village.  Bars and entertainment options are close by (typically small and divey in nature, so not too much commercial intensity), and other neighborhood services like the cleaners and pharmacy and markets are very accessible on foot and close at hand.

Jax doesn't have the population or war for space that New York has, so why set a vision for downtown living that puts people into high-rises with office towers as a backdrop.  If you want downtown to have more residences, look at what is working in Charleston and Savannah. 

Encourage clean, amenity-rich, walkable neighborhoods of single family homes in and around downtown (infill galore).  Integrate multi-family uses in low and mid-rise developments, but with an intensity that doesn't overwhelm everything around it.

Just be Jax.  Not Manhattan.  The world will respect that more in the long run.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:21:27 PM by jaxnyc79 »

marcuscnelson

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #245 on: August 17, 2017, 10:29:23 PM »
Are downtown's fortunes so staked on this single property that it requires this kind of escalation and confrontation? 

I'm so confused by Jacksonville's vision for its Downtown.  What's the end goal? 

Here in NYC, no one wants to live near the convention center (Jacob Javitz), no one wants to live by penn station/madison square garden (sports complex), certainly not in the shadow of any of the sports stadiums, not near City Hall or the Courthouses, and definitely not in Times Square (tourist hell). 

When people do live in those places, they're sort of forced there because it's so tough to find rentals at prices most can afford.

If people here in NYC could afford it, they'd live in a low-rise brownstone along tree-lined streets and amidst the pocket parks of the West Village.  Bars and entertainment options are close by (typically small and divey in nature, so not too much commercial intensity), and other neighborhood services like the cleaners and pharmacy and markets are very accessible on foot and close at hand.

Jax doesn't have the population or war for space that New York has, so why set a vision for downtown living that puts people into high-rises with office towers as a backdrop.  If you want downtown to have more residences, look at what is working in Charleston and Savannah. 

Encourage clean, amenity-rich, walkable neighborhoods of single family homes in and around downtown (infill galore).  Integrate multi-family uses in low and mid-rise developments, but with an intensity that doesn't overwhelm everything around it.

Just be Jax.  Not Manhattan.  The world will respect that more in the long run.


It sounds like you're thinking of Springfield and that part of town.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #246 on: August 17, 2017, 10:46:12 PM »
Perhaps.  It would be interesting to see more Springfields, all around the core, and perhaps with more density. Maybe 2 and 3 story townhomes abutting the sidewalks.  Probably wouldn't overwhelm the single family stock there, and would bring in more customers for commercial uses along Main Street.  Oh yeah, and sidewalks with shade, please...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:48:48 PM by jaxnyc79 »

Adam White

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #247 on: August 18, 2017, 06:42:06 AM »
Here in NYC, no one wants to live near the convention center (Jacob Javitz)...

When people do live in those places, they're sort of forced there because it's so tough to find rentals at prices most can afford.


I always thought Hell's Kitchen was quite a desirable neighbourhood to live in. I guess that's changed since the late 90s/early 2000s. Certainly didn't used to be that affordable.
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jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #248 on: August 18, 2017, 06:53:46 AM »
Hell's Kitchen isn't at the Jacob Javitz Center and it isn't Times Square.  It's to the west of Times Square, and the feel is markedly different.  It's become a much more desirable place over time, but again, still not as desirable as TriBeCa or West Village...but in NYC, many people go where they can given the density and costs.  I also consider Hudson Yards to be altogether different from Hell's Kitchen.

My point was that Jax isn't really anywhere near the point where it should be forcing high-rise residential.  I understand why it occurs at natural landmarks like the beach, but if the urban core is looking for more filled-in blocks and street-level vibrancy, that can all be done with residential options that make sense for Jax.  I frankly think "complete streets and road diets" all throughout in-town Jax are a better use of resources than incentives to build high-rises.  Amenities too (some of which are underway), like kayak launches, pocket parks, pocket plazas, maybe a grand "Central Park" (with shade), and other such gathering places for the citizenry could do a lot to spur infill and create a sense of vibrancy.

I still want to hold on to the idea that if a place is zoned properly and has rock solid infrastructure for residential infill (including pocket parks, shaded and easily accessible sidewalks, non-contaminated lands, pedestrians and cyclists prioritized over cars, and the perception of low crime and security), then the construction will come and the city won't be in the real estate development business.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:02:37 AM by jaxnyc79 »

Adam White

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #249 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:17 AM »
Hell's Kitchen isn't by the Jacob Javitz Center and it isn't Times Square.  It's to the west of Times Square, and the feel is markedly different.  It's become a much more desirable place over time, but again, still not as desirable as TriBeCa or West Village...but in NYC, many people go where they can given the density and costs.  The West Village brownstones are for the movie stars and hedge fund managers! 

I still want to hold on to the idea that if a place is zoned properly and has rock solid infrastructure for residential infill (including pocket parks, shaded and easily accessible sidewalks, non-contaminated lands, pedestrians and cyclists prioritized over cars, and the perception of low crime and security), then the construction will come and the city won't be in the real estate development business.

I think you'll find that the Javits Center is indeed located in Hell's Kitchen. It is on 34th street.

Edit: but the other option, if it's not in Hell's Kitchen, is for it to be in Chelsea. Where no one wants to live, right?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:09:18 AM by Adam White »
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jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #250 on: August 18, 2017, 08:48:10 AM »
Your authoritative delineations are actually pretty funny...and pretty sad as well.  Where are you messaging from?  Jacob Javitz starts at the terminus of 34th street, spans along the Hudson River to like 40th or so, and is on the other side of 11th avenue and is disconnected from any neighborhood.  Have you been to the Center in person?  In fact, large chunks of Chelsea are tree-lined streets of brownstones, and West Chelsea has rapidly become industrial buildings repurposed to creative residential uses along the High-Line.   

My point was lost on you, but I was addressing relative desirability in Manhattan; obviously, anywhere in Manhattan is desirable because it's so crowded, and people become a lot less discriminating as a result.

Jax is not in that boat.  I proposed the idea that the city stick to (or maybe begin to focus on) robust infrastructure development to spur in-town growth and vibrancy.  But not the usual infrastructure that lends itself more to cul-de-sacs and subdivisions, but infrastructure that encourages uncontaminated lots, walkability, pedestrian comfort, density and security.

Adam White

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #251 on: August 18, 2017, 09:04:58 AM »
Your authoritative delineations are actually pretty funny...and pretty sad as well.  Where are you messaging from?  Jacob Javitz starts at the terminus of 34th street, spans along the Hudson River to like 40th or so, and is on the other side of 11th avenue and is disconnected from any neighborhood.  Have you been to the Center in person?  In fact, large chunks of Chelsea are tree-lined streets of brownstones, and West Chelsea has rapidly become industrial buildings repurposed to creative residential uses along the High-Line.   

My point was lost on you, but I was addressing relative desirability in Manhattan; obviously, anywhere in Manhattan is desirable because it's so crowded, and people become a lot less discriminating as a result.

Jax is not in that boat.  I proposed the idea that the city stick to (or maybe begin to focus on) robust infrastructure development to spur in-town growth and vibrancy.  But not the usual infrastructure that lends itself more to cul-de-sacs and subdivisions, but infrastructure that encourages uncontaminated lots, walkability, pedestrian comfort, density and security.

Your point wasn't lost on me so much as I thought your statement (nobody wants to live near the Javitz [sic] Center) was ridiculous. The Javits Center (note the spelling) is located in the middle of the West Side of Manhattan. Maybe no one wants to live in the center's car park, but I certainly would say the market for property near the center is quite strong.

But - more to the point - I don't think anyone is arguing that the Landing is a) downtown's saviour or b) that people want to or will want to live "near" it. The point is that downtown needs more development, the Landing is in a prime location and the Landing is being sorely mis-managed. It may not be all that great, but it could be a lot better than it is. Some cities don't really have to worry about development. Jacksonville isn't one of those cities. And the current state of the Landing seems like a pretty bad lost opportunity to me.

To answer your question - I'm posting (messaging) from London.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 09:24:40 AM by Adam White »
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jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #252 on: August 18, 2017, 09:32:07 AM »
Ah, so you haven't been to the center?  I'm posting from midtown Manhattan.  You have clearly missed the point.  As stated, Manhattan is dense and crowded and every corner of it commands a residential market.  Again, the point was around relative desirability.  Javits (thank you) is no anchor of residential growth, and if "actual" NYers had their druthers, they wouldn't be near that sprawling complex, just as they wouldn't be near Penn station and other high-traffic spots.  But again, the war for space makes everyone a lot less discriminating.  Jax doesn't have this problem and shouldn't create the appearance of it.

This is a fake debate, ha, and certainly not worth engagement with someone 3400 miles away.

Adam White

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #253 on: August 18, 2017, 09:40:03 AM »
Ah, so you haven't been to the center?  I'm posting from midtown Manhattan.  You have clearly missed the point.  As stated, Manhattan is dense and crowded and every corner of it commands a residential market.  Again, the point was around relative desirability.  Javits (thank you) is no anchor of residential growth, and if "actual" NYers had their druthers, they wouldn't be near that sprawling complex, just as they wouldn't be near Penn station and other high-traffic spots.  But again, the war for space makes everyone a lot less discriminating.  Jax doesn't have this problem and shouldn't create the appearance of it.

This is a fake debate, ha, and certainly not worth engagement with someone 3400 miles away.

I've been to the centre, yes. My sister lived in NYC for 30 years - she just moved to Minneapolis. I've spent quite a bit of time in NYC and I used to visit all the time when I lived in CT. Of course, none of this means anything to you.

Are you from NYC or are you just another person who moved then and then tells everyone else about what "real" New Yorkers think? My sister was one of those types. In fact, the only people who seem to go on and on about being "from" NYC are the ones who moved there. You don't happen to have a brother named Simms, do you?

Your original post seemed to imply that people are somehow repelled by the center. Like its very existence would keep people from wanting to live near it. I doubt many people choose to live near it because it's there - it is a convention centre after all - but I doubt it has a negative impact on desirability.

The Landing, of course, is not a convention centre. It's a shopping centre and having a thriving shopping centre nearby would likely make residential properties near it more desirable. It's not like Jax has a lot of shopping downtown.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 09:50:36 AM by Adam White »
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jaxnyc79

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Re: Mayor Curry wants the Landing back
« Reply #254 on: August 18, 2017, 10:31:56 AM »
So you've only ever been a visitor/tourist here, not a resident.  Got it.  I'll take your characterizations of desirable neighborhoods to heart with regards to London.  On NYC, I assign very little value to what you're saying. 

Yes, I've lived in Manhattan for 13 years, but have plenty of family in the South and visit several times each year to look after parents and grandparents.  I also lived in Jax for a period of time as a child.  Your sister lived in NYC for 30 years, so it would appear you're significantly older than I am which may partially account for our divergent views.

I know what the Landing is.  But I've also read on these threads that the City may be eyeing the courthouse property for a convention center, which is awfully close to the Landing.  Curry also has a sense of urgency to control the Landing.  My original posting questioned the vision for downtown.  An investment in the Landing as a shopping center at this point makes little sense given the lack of demand. 

Perhaps a convention center would spur some demand.  OK, so is that the vision?

On the other hand, a density of residents nearby might spur demand, but in a place like Jax, I'm not convinced high-rise residential off-the-waterfront really makes much sense. 

Perhaps you convert the Landing into waterfront mixed-use high-rises which incorporate residential, but if the city moves forward with a convention center where the old courthouse is located, I don't think that bodes well long-term for those residences.

Of course, the city could force almost anything to get built with enough tax breaks and grants.  But the city and its marketplace distortions in the name of these ill-conceived notions of what makes for a great downtown are diverting attention from the basics of government service. 

   
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 10:34:03 AM by jaxnyc79 »