Author Topic: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?  (Read 3475 times)

BridgeTroll

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2017, 12:07:42 PM »
The market would crucify a company that doesn't let you do this. If I couldn't go to ubreakifix or wherever and get my screen replaced or whatever broke, I wouldn't have an iPhone. If I couldn't call detroit diesel and get a service manual showing me how to service the engines in my boat, then I wouldn't have bought that boat. I wouldn't buy a car that I can't readily have serviced in the market. In theory, yes, all this stuff is legally the IP of whoever designed and copyrighted it, and yes in theory they don't legally have to share it with you. But in practice if a manufacturer ever actually did that, then think about it, their market share would go to effectively zero. Few would buy something that permanently ties you at the hip to only one service provider.

John Deere Tractors and farm equipment... Original post...

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Adam White

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2017, 12:16:38 PM »
I highlighted Chris' last sentence for a reason...when you use iTunes, you're essentially permanently tied at the hip to only one service provider.

Yeah - but at least you can get the phone services by more than one company. Chris's last sentence - as I understood it - was referring to buying a car that he "can't readily have serviced in the market".
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

finehoe

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2017, 12:21:46 PM »
Yeah - but at least you can get the phone services by more than one company.

You still have to buy the Apple product.  "Service provider" in this context means what is needed to listen to your music, not who you get you phone service from.

Chris's last sentence - as I understood it - was referring to buying a car that he "can't readily have serviced in the market".

He also talked about iPhones and boat engines, so I don't think he only meant cars.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 12:28:56 PM by finehoe »

Adam White

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2017, 12:28:01 PM »
Yeah - but at least you can get the phone services by more than one company.

You still have to buy the Apple product.

Chris's last sentence - as I understood it - was referring to buying a car that he "can't readily have serviced in the market".

He also talked about iPhones and boat engines, so I don't think he only meant cars.

I don't know what you mean by, "you still have to buy the Apple product". I own a Mac (and have owned many) and am not required to use iTunes as my media player. I also currently use a Samsung phone - and have all my music on it, a portion of which was purchased on the iTunes store. And all my music is on my Mac, which I used to transfer the files to my Samsung phone.

Yes, iTunes is the only software that works with iPhones (as far as syncing files and buying apps goes). But that's a software thing.

Chris did talk about boat engines and iPhones - he talked about servicing them. So the iTunes analogy isn't really apt (IMO).
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

finehoe

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2017, 12:30:26 PM »
So the iTunes analogy isn't really apt (IMO).

Okay, whatever you say.

Adam White

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2017, 12:53:00 PM »
So the iTunes analogy isn't really apt (IMO).

Okay, whatever you say.

Cheers.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2017, 09:00:32 AM »
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/there-are-now-11-states-considering-bills-to-protect-your-right-to-repair-electronics

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There Are Now 11 States Considering Bills to Protect Your 'Right to Repair' Electronics
Jason Koebler
Apr 10 2017, 10:56am

Lawmakers in three more states have just filed right to repair bills.

The right to repair movement is spreading. In recent weeks legislators in Iowa, Missouri, and North Carolina have introduced bills that would make it easier for you to fix your electronics, joining eight other states that introduced right-to-repair legislation earlier this year.

The bills would require manufacturers to sell replacement parts to consumers and independent repair companies and would also require them to open source diagnostic manuals. It would also give independent repair professionals the ability to bypass software locks that prevent repairs, allowing them to return a gadget back to its factory settings.

Right to repair advocates are looking at this movement as a perhaps decade-long process that will require a grassroots movement of consumers to push back against the long-entrenched repair monopolies of companies like Apple, John Deere, and video game console manufacturers.

It's heartening, then, that the bills in Iowa, Missouri, and North Carolina were introduced without the help of Repair.org, the trade organization of independent repair professionals that is pushing for these laws elsewhere. While Repair.org has been heavily involved in crafting legislation in places like New York, Massachusetts, and Nebraska, the group wasn't even aware that the movement had spread to three new states until last week.

"It came out of the blue to me," Gay Gordon-Byrne, executive director of the organization, told me. "We did nothing and they just popped up, which validates that this is an important problem for a lot of people who have been independently looking for a solution to repair monopolies."

"The fact that there were eight states that had already filed bills seems to have served as an inspiration," she added.

So far this year, tech company lobbying has killed right to repair bills in Minnesota and Nebraska; lawmakers in Tennessee have decided to defer consideration of its bill until 2018. Legislation is still pending in New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, Kansas, Wyoming, Iowa, Missouri, North Carolina, Iowa, Missouri, and North Carolina.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

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Re: Right to Repair... Is it Safety or something else?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2017, 01:29:19 PM »
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/apple-is-lobbying-against-your-right-to-repair-iphones-new-york-state-records-confirm


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Apple Is Lobbying Against Your Right to Repair iPhones, New York State Records Confirm
Jason Koebler
May 18 2017, 8:00am
Behind the scenes, Apple is trying to kill legislation that would make it easier for normal people to fix iPhones.

Lobbying records in New York state show that Apple, Verizon, and the tech industry's largest trade organizations are opposing a bill that would make it easier for consumers and independent companies to repair your electronics.

The bill, called the "Fair Repair Act," would require electronics companies to sell replacement parts and tools to the general public, would prohibit "software locks" that restrict repairs, and in many cases would require companies to make repair guides available to the public. Apple and other tech giants have been suspected of opposing the legislation in many of the 11 states where similar bills have been introduced, but New York's robust lobbying disclosure laws have made information about which companies are hiring lobbyists and what bills they're spending money on public record.

According to New York State's Joint Commission on Public Ethics, Apple, Verizon, Toyota, the printer company Lexmark, heavy machinery company Caterpillar, phone insurance company Asurion, and medical device company Medtronic have spent money lobbying against the Fair Repair Act this year. The Consumer Technology Association, which represents thousands of electronics manufacturers, is also lobbying against the bill.


To be clear, each of the companies and trade organizations listed in this article—including Apple—lobbies on a variety of bills each year, and not all or even a majority of that money has been spent on right to repair legislation. But the records show a huge discrepancy between the political clout of large corporations lobbying against this legislation and that of their customers, who stand to benefit greatly from the bill.

Fair repair is one of just three bills Apple lobbied on in March and April

The records show that companies and organizations lobbying against right to repair legislation spent $366,634 to retain lobbyists in the state between January and April of this year. Thus far, the Digital Right to Repair Coalition—which is generally made up of independent repair shops with several employees—is the only organization publicly lobbying for the legislation. It has spent $5,042 on the effort, according to the records.

A retainer agreement between Apple and lobbying firm the Roffe Group notes that the law firm will "lobby Apple's corporate issues, including but not limited to areas of environment, tax, and retail." According to the contract, Apple pays Roffe Group $9,000 per month for its services. According to the records, fair repair (New York Senate bill 618A) is one of just three bills Apple lobbied on in March and April. The records—which as far as I can tell have not been published on a news site before—also show that Apple lobbied against similar legislation in 2016 and 2015.


As I mentioned, it's no huge secret that Apple is lobbying against right to repair. In Nebraska, for instance, the sponsor of a right to repair bill said she was visited by Apple lobbyists who told her the state would turn into a "Mecca for bad actors" if the legislation passed. But with New York's state records, we have proof that Apple's fighting against repair around the country.

The important thing to keep in mind is that supporters of the bill have been very open about why they support the legislation. Meanwhile, the companies that are lobbying against it do not ever speak publicly about why they oppose fair repair laws. Both Apple and Roffe Group did not respond to my request for more information about the company's specific position on right to repair legislation.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."