Results of the Boom: Dead Projects

[downtownjag]

while most of those projects look great, lets keep in mind that it would have been a disaster if they all, or even a few too many, went vertical at the same time.  Traffic issues would have no time to be resolved, our city would absolutely not have given any ground to aspiring developers, and once all the projects were completed the core would be understaffed, overcrowded, and would have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.  What I take out of this article is that while the projects are dead or delayed, it as we all know was more a function of the collapse of the market nationally; not the potential of the core of our city.  The developers are still out there and I believe we will get some of these projects in a more manageable order.  Keep your heads up!  We want the core to grow steadily, not an un-sustainable boom of artificial demand.

I agree that we may have been able to sort out the mess and life would go on, but there are a few things we may not see eye to eye on.  I don't believe that Miami is a good example of the amount of construction our city can handle at once.  Miami has seen a boom before and has an established core which can handle an influx of population.  Jacksonville currently has almost nothing in place to please downtown residents; I live down here and I love it but friends from established cities wouldn't consider moving because of the necessities not in place.  I know that you didn't mean Jacksonville could literally handle 20 cranes at once but I think even half of that would have been an overload of product and a relfection of over-estimated demand.  Another discussion worth looking into is the influx of crime we would have see, with the northside breathing down the neck of affluent downtown residents, but that is besides the point.
I also agree that it is important to have city leaders in place that can plan for the influx before it occurs; and I believe in our leaders, but there is only so much they can do.  Don't get me wrong, I am on the same side of the fence as you when it comes to downtown development, I am just arguing that we should grow smart and for the longterm.   
We can live with most of the "fuss," that would occur with numerous construction projects going at once, that you list in your post.  Eventually, after construction is complete, everything would be sorted out.  The key is to ensure that City Leaders carefully plan, way in advance, to sort out these problems before construction begins. That's why we  pay people in City Government to plan and invent ways to prevent the type of disorder that you mention during major construction projects and phases.  Miami is a prime example.  I'll bet at present there are 20 or more cranes in the air which indicates numerous projects under construction at one time, and all of the debacles you mention are not a huge issue in Miami.  That's why the people in power get paid the big bucks, to take care of these type issues as required.  We can live with these things if City Leaders plan carefully BEFORE they begin construction on them.

Heights Unknown

[Lunican]

while most of those projects look great, lets keep in mind that it would have been a disaster if they all, or even a few too many, went vertical at the same time.  Traffic issues would have no time to be resolved, our city would absolutely not have given any ground to aspiring developers, and once all the projects were completed the core would be understaffed, overcrowded, and would have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.  What I take out of this article is that while the projects are dead or delayed, it as we all know was more a function of the collapse of the market nationally; not the potential of the core of our city.  The developers are still out there and I believe we will get some of these projects in a more manageable order.  Keep your heads up!  We want the core to grow steadily, not an un-sustainable boom of artificial demand.

This pretty much describes the situation that was created by suburban growth over the past 10 years.

[downtownjag]

agreed, although evidently I need to learn how to quote a quote, see above

[ProjectMaximus]

Yeah, I'm with dtjag on this one. Maybe it's because I always look for the bright side of things, but I think that had many of these projects pushed forth just before the real estate bubble burst, we'd have lots of empty high-rises downtown now. The silver lining we should all remember is that we want smart and sustained growth that will put us in a good position in the long run.

When the housing market returns, hopefully we can resume that slow but steady development in the core.

[downtownjag]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

[thelakelander]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

There's more than that.  I know there's a few projects rising in Brickell right now and I see at least six in this one shot looking north.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=477774&page=90

[downtownjag]

I am suprised lakelander.  Look at that picture and count how many developers wish they weren't paying rent on non-profitable cranes right now.  They are all collecting dust.  I don't care if those are residential, office, or mixed-used projects.  Now is an awful time to build.  Construction costs are way up, in every sector, besides labor.  I don't know if you are arguing the amount of cranes in Miami or the feasability of building in Jacksonville but in my opinion you are way off.     

[thelakelander]

I'm not off, there are six cranes in the image.  That's the only point I was trying to make.  As for now being an awful time to build, I believe it ultimately depends on the type of project you're developing and the market you're targeting.  Even in today's economic conditions, you can't paint every single project with one broad brush.

[downtownjag]

Agreed, and I apologize for coming off strongly.  I have read many of your posts and I respect your opinion.  Long term, I agree that most of those cranes will turn into profitable investments.  Go Jaguars

[thelakelander]

No need to apologize.  Some of the cranes in Miami may be office developments.  Its an international business center, so some of the companies down there may not be suffering.

As for Jax, I think we have to remember that not all proposals come to light.  Despite the dead and delayed list, we saw a number of new projects rise in the urban core over the first half of this decade.  There are many similar sized cities across the US that can't say the same.

[Ocklawaha]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

Sorry guys, Miami might even close the population gap (in spite of our consolidation) if you check the world high rise forums they have over 70 new projects. As far as I know, all 70 are up from the dust, how many will be done is anyones guess. Bottom line, they will leave us in their dust, or we'll get the few financial survivors when the rest of their developers jump out of 90 story windows and splatter on Flagler.

We just didn't get into the boom until it was over, as usual, typical Jacksonville foot dragging. But in the end this might have been a good thing for local financial institutions.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Its unfair to compare Jax with Miami.  Metro Miami is five times larger than Metro Jax and was the site of the largest urban boom in America over the last couple of years.  Also, there have been several projects in Miami that have been canceled as well.  However, that place is just on a different level.

[Ocklawaha]

I don't agree Lake, in 1900, we were far ahead of Miami, 1940-60 we were neck and neck, comes the AFL and the POST FLAGLER ERA and Miami metro Skyrockets past us. Dallas got it's NFL team with a population of about 600,000 - 800,000 then rocketed past us. Ditto Tampa. It's our turn now, good team or bad, we can't pay for the commercials we got last night. This sort of thing makes every television game a WIN for Jacksonville. With our space and our river, we could overtake Miami before, my wires are depowered, I'm labeled "NOT IN SERVICE" and go to the big carbarn in the Sky.

"I'm a believer!"

OCKLAWAHA

[stephendare]

I'm not off, there are six cranes in the image.  That's the only point I was trying to make.  As for now being an awful time to build, I believe it ultimately depends on the type of project you're developing and the market you're targeting.  Even in today's economic conditions, you can't paint every single project with one broad brush.

And dont forget that one of the greatest eras for building in US history was during the Great Depression under the WPA.

I think that the real problem we have downtown is the boneheaded impulse to tear down structures on the mere possibility that there might be a development.

I think it might turn out that we actually tore down more than we built during this last 'boom'.

[reednavy]

I can go ahead and say about the Miami image. The 4 cranes in the lower right of the picture are part of Metropolitan Miami development. They are working on phase 2 (MET2), which is a 47-story office tower, and an ajoining 42-story Marriott Marquis hotel.