Convention Centers: How do we compare?

[JJ]

When it comes to convention centers, Jacksonville is like the guy that still wears his Members Only jacket. We are not talking about Jacksonville against Chicago, Orlando and Las Vegas. Mobile? Are you kidding me? Our leaders are inept.

[RG]

Convention centers are not about turning an operational profit and any myopic attempt to view them in this way will of course result in one not favoring expansion and/or relocation.  The point of the convention center is to bring in business to the community as a loss leader of sorts.  They City makes their money back in increased sales tax revenue, bed tax revenue and increased property taxes for the development which would occur around a propertly designed and sited convention center.  This really isnt rocket science.  Why are we stuck with small time (and minded) heirs as leader rather than visionary leaders??   :(

[mtraininjax]

You can't look at the pictures without thinking that Jacksonville is way behind most other cities in this category

Don't we have any paint that we can watch dry?

[Osborn]

I am a newbie to Jax but I have to say that I do not see a great need for a new convention center, yet.  I am from the Midwest and have seen it all to much, do not build a convention center to say, yea, we have one too.  There are much bigger battles to win first.  Jax needs to develop more of the puzzle first.  For example, Jax really has no nightlife, especially downtown, and the draw for conventioneers to bring their family along for a mini vacation really is not here compared to cities such as Tampa or Orlando.  Jax really needs to continue to focus on the growth and development of downtown, South Bank, San Marco, Riverside along with others.  I believe all of these areas will merge together into a very nicely developed area within the next 10 years or so.  Given that, it would be appropriate to start looking at a new convention center in maybe 5-7 years.  In addition, Jax does not really have its own identity, until that is settled, a convention center is just another building which needs city subsidies to keep it going.

With that being said, I have had the opportunity to attend events at the Tampa Convention Center and the Rosen Shingle Creek Hotel in Orlando.  I have to say I am surprised to learn that the Tampa facility is not that old, it was not an impressive facility and looks much older than its actual age.  I was very impressed with the facility at Shingle Creek and I would have to say that while separated into sections, probably has as much space as the Tampa Convention Center.  When the time is right, I would like Jax to look into placing a convention center near the sports facilities and the possible tie ins.  Also, are there any hotels in Jax that have large meeting centers such as the Rosen Shingle Creek?  Sometimes these are better than publicly owned convention centers.  

It is not so much that a city needs a convention center, but what uses are there for one.  When looking at comparable cities and their convention centers, space, money spent, etc. are great comparisons, but are the centers self sustaining and how often are they used.  What is the true economic impact?  Jax is unlikely to compete with Orlando, Miami, Tampa for convention business, so what is our market?  I do not know for sure, but the Prime Osborn may be just fine for Jax, at least until we develop into something better.  Until that time, lets continue to develop the downtown area into what I see as something great, but it is still down the road a few years.    

I will say that I have been to the RAM brewery in Indianapolis and have to say that I am surprised to learn that there was a convention center, parking ramp right there, they did a wonderful job of mixing it in from the pedestrian view.  In addition, Denver has done a fabulous job in redeveloping their downtown and would be a good model to get ideas from.  

[Jeremiah]

Hello all.  It's your favorite commenter.  All of you who have had something to say about this post should come to Burrito Gallery tonight for the Emerging Architects Gallery.  We're showcasing not only our own competition for the Clara White Mission, but also work done by UF Grad students on this very topic.  The were given a program for a 300,000 SF Convention Center to take up residence in one of the surface parking lots for the stadium.  The scope even includes the development of a hotel adjacent to the site on the river.  Come check it out, 6-9.

Oh, and speaking of Savannah (being a SCAD grad and all), the convention center generated huge revenues for the city at it's opening.  While it's success has waned in recent years, it is again on the upswing.  Savannah will even be getting cruise ship traffic thanks in part to the convention center.  And while it may not be a direct connection to the historic district (i myself would not want that monstrosity in the heart of the historic district), the river taxi is widely used to travel back and forth across the river.

[Jason]

A snippet from the following Jacksonville.com article...

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/053107/bus_173777883.shtml

Convention task force looks to Tampa

54-member advisory group to tour city's flourishing convention facilities, venues


By Alison Trinidad, The Times-Union


About 30 Jacksonville business and civic leaders are touring the Tampa Convention Center and its nearby entertainment district today to determine whether Jacksonville should build a bigger center of its own.

Most of those who have reserved a seat on the tour are part of a task force assigned to study the city's ability to support a larger convention center, be it an expansion or new construction. The 54-member task force has been studying the issue since January, and plans to make a recommendation to the city by October.

Businesses, tourism advocates and meeting planners say convention centers generate economic activity in a city by attracting out-of-towners who spend money in stores, restaurants and hotels. They say the Prime Osborn, formerly a train station, is too small and too far from hotels and things to do to compete in the convention business.

The task force has commissioned a study to evaluate the potential cost, economic impact and return on investment of a larger center, but results don't come in until the end of June. So far, the group said Jacksonville needs more than a bigger convention center to drum up business downtown - it needs a better image.

"A convention center by itself doesn't suddenly make us a vibrant, dynamic city," task force Chairman M.G. Orender said in April.

 ........ read the rest at Jacksonville.com

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/053107/bus_173777883.shtml

[miss_saralynn]

why doesn't the city use the prime osborn for creating a new courthouse? by repurposing the prime osborn to be home to the county courthouse, the land previously designated to be home to the courthouse can go to a new convention center.

and, both the new convention center and new courthouse advocates can be happy.

[RG]

Because this is frankly a dumb idea.  You dont put the new courthouse immediately adjacent to the existing train lines in an old train station.  You put the transportation center in that building to tie it into the regional commuter rail which is to come, the skyway that is there now and any other regional transit in place (i.e. buses).  The Courthouse needs also to be multilevel and built from the ground up for security reasons.  The convention center however indeed would be a good fit for the current courthouse/city hall annex site and most of us support that move.  Just build a new courthouse in the moonscape that is the future courthouse site and do it now!

[stephendare]

hello anyone?  Common sense calling.

[tufsu1]

Since everyone in the urban planning world seems to think Portland is the place to be, its worthwhile to check out their convention center.  It is located across the river (about 1 mile) from downtown.  Similar to our current center, it is connected to downtown via light rail (a bonus is the trip is free).  Another option is a 3 block walk down to the river and across a pedestrian bridge.  There are hotels and restaurants nearby, but in a suburban development pattern.  For those wanting the urban experience, conventioneers hop on light rail and go downtown.

I use Portland as an example to again point out that the exact location of a convention center is not as important as it might seem.  Being proximite to downtown (like Prime Osborn) is a significant benefit, but the real catch is conncting the urban core via transit.

[thelakelander]

From looking at the Google Earth aerials, it's not the most ideal location, yet its still head and shoulders above the Prime Osborn for several reasons, including:

1. Light Rail - It has a direct stop on Portland's Light Rail line, which takes you almost anywhere you want to go in that city, including Portland's International Airport.  We have nothing in place like that and won't anytime soon (please don't mention the skyway).

2. Rose Garden - Unlike the Prime Osborn, it's not located in the middle of no where by it's self.  The Rose Garden, which is where the NBA Trailblazers play, is virtually across the street.

3. Pedestrian walks - If you choose to walk across the river, there are a series of pedestrian greenways to cover the entire distance.  Its one thing to walk from the Landing to Friendship Fountain, via the Main Street Bridge, but it's another to make that walk through a sea of surface parking lots and expressway ramps.

4. Surrounding neighborhood - No doubt, its not as lively and dense as the core of downtown Portland, but it's not in the middle of anywhere.  The streets are gridded, there's buildings on them (instead of grass parking lots) and there's a full blown 3 story enclosed shopping mall, with a Nordstrom, Sears, Meier & Frank and a movie cinema, about 5 blocks to the East.  

http://www.lloydcentermall.com/

Both are a similar in terms of the distance from the heart of their downtowns, railroad tracks and expressway ramps.  Outside of that, they're nothing a like, when it comes to surrounding context.  Plus, what makes this such a premier convention center?  People speak of the vibrancy of Portland's downtown and light rail, but you rarely hear them mention the convention center.  

If we're going to have to pump money into this (either way) locally, why settle for an isolated second rate structure?  We'd be better off, getting out of the convention business, taking that money and applying it to other needs in the community.

[SeaEmBee]

A group of appointed leaders and members of the community have been deliberating since January.

This is the link to the last white paper released by the group...
http://www.jcci.org/convention%20center/april%20handouts/MSIWhitePaper4%2026%2007%20Final.pdf

It starts...
A convention center will not be an asset in Jacksonville without sufficient and appropriate marketing and market infrastructure. Success is dependent on setting priorities for developing an infrastructure that builds demand for working, playing, and living in downtown Jacksonville.

What do you all think?

Other information is available at
http://www.jcci.org/convention%20center/CCTG%20HANDOUTS%20AND%20SUMMARIES.htm