Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax

[simms3]

Once again this site is full of odd comments.  Case in point:

Colyfett,

I live in Ortega, thanks for showing your ignorance.  There are plenty of people in Ortega and Mandarin that pay attention to this site and want to participate as well, until they read comments like yours that seem to always pop up.  This site originally seemed to be more constructive, now it is full of emotional people that let all of their thoughts and opinions fly without thinking of a way to more reasonably get a point across.  I would venture to say that you do not even know many people that live in the neighborhoods that you so hate.  If you want to make change in this city, the way to do it is not to appear uneducated and offensive to those actually in power.  There is always authority in the world and people in higher places, learn how to get their attention in a good light so that maybe they will listen.

I agree with the motives of the developers of this site, but let's not be rash or emotional.  Let's remain cool, calm, and collected, and maybe everyone will be happy to work together on these issues.

[stephendare]

I just found this thread, and thought I would make a comment.

One of the things that I think we can be proud of on this site is that there is a definite representation of most of the people who live here in Jacksonville amongst its posters, liberal, conservative, apolitical, social and anti social.

I think any person would be hard pressed to call metrojacksonville, even at its most political as either a 'liberal' or 'conservative', if only because there are so many eloquent representations of all sides of the discussions represented.

Primarily though, the site is above political philosophy and is simply about civic betterment and urban planning with an eye to making this city a better place to live.

Efficient public transit, great places to eat and hang out, a sense of belonging and history, well lit streets relatively free of crime and the type of central based development that encourages low taxes are neither conservative nor liberal, and they serve all of us, regardless of our politics, faith, or lifestyle choices equally.

I think it has probably been a decade or three since our society has really been used to public debate.  Especially in a city like our which has seperated into little social groups of mostly likeminded people who have sometimes very little difference of opinion.

We werent always like this.  The civic manners of our society go back to town hall meetings and the underpinnings of democracy and I really do think that forums like this recreate the old conventions of polite debate.

I know that I have learned a whole lot over the past two years of discussion on this site that has changed my opinion and informed my perceptions of the world around me, and I certainly recommend being wrong occasionally to anyone on here.

I love Coolyfett's posts, and I love that andy and simms3 are comfortable responding with a completely different take and point of view.

In my own humble opinion, this is the way it should be.

Certainly from these discussions have come real palpable changes.  Sometimes in the policy, more often than not the framing of the public conversation.  The very best things that have come from this site have all been collaborations, and the editorial board is as different from each other as the rest of the posters in the forums.  Its been the differing and therefore moderating influence of opposing ideas that has informed the most sensible proposals to come out of our process.

Every now and then we get someone who jumps on a high horse and will try and shut down conversation or productive discourse, thats just the way humans are in groups, but on this site it tends to be self correcting.

I think because all of us are here because we want a better place and world to live in.  We might not agree on the specifics, but therein lies the remarkably large number of great ideas that get proposed.

[stephendare]

Respect the opinion and ideas"
 Does not mean you need to agree, just that you should listen, and if you disagree calmly and responsibly debate your position. This can be done without name calling and personal attacks. Take for instance this thread.  AndyB stated he was a conservative Christian, he also stated he didn't think the downtown should revolve around alcohol, several regulars jumped on those comments and made the assumption he wanted to ban alcohol downtown. At least in this case no one called AndyB a name, just assumed they knew what he was all about and ran with it. If some of the other regulars were posting here AndyB would of have been torn apart, called names, and degenerated for being a conservative Christian. If you still don’t see it I would be more than happy to go pull some comments made by "regulars" towards conservative Christians on other threads. While the articles are excellent (got me reading this forum years ago!) and most of the founders are sincere and intelligent there are some that should be curbed if you want any true discussions representing the diverse population of the city.

Uptown Girl, I would definitely think that this is a gross overstatement.

There are many people on this site who are conservative Christians.  Just as many who totally arent.

Asperity crawls into a discussion every now and then.  Certainly over the past two years, our non christian and seperately our liberal posters have been ganged up on and offended just as brutally.

Its why we insist on civility.

I think its an instructive thing for all of us to remember that respect is a two way street which in very few exceptions is the norm here.

[JeffreyS]

The fact that people sometimes go overboard on this site is fine by me. Most of the threads on this site are polite.  The occassional fights between the bed wetting libs and war mongering neocons are for entertainment purposes only.

[stjohnsguy]

So much for the mass transit comments....thought that is what the topic was guess not

[JeffreyS]

This tread wandered a bit.

[Ocklawaha]

Okay, F O C U S   P E O P L E ! Let's try the topic for a change? Eh?

"LAST TRANSIT COMMENT, QUIET ON THE SET, QUIET! TAKE 23, SCENE 2, MARKER..."

Transit will always be subsidized and operate at a big loss.  If we had a well planned system like the

Metro in D.C. you would have "preferred riders" as JTA calls them using mass transit in Jacksonville.  These are people that would normally drive a car but take mass transit because it is cost effective and convenient.

Preferred riders, quality riders, or choice riders, it isn't JTA speak, it is industry-speak for ANYONE that would normally use an automobile, but becomes a convert to mass transit. It does NOT mean that any one person, group or social status is preferred over another, as people of all stripes own cars. It is simply a gauge to say how many cars stayed in the garage due to quality transit. In Jacksonville, we need to work much harder to attract them whatever you want to call them.

Federal Spending by mode:
2003 (In Millions of Dollars)

Total  66,877 
Highway 30,886 
Transit 8,244 
Rail   1,264 
Air 13,938 
Water  5,925 
Pipeline  63 
General Support  6,557 

You can buy a whole lot of tugboats for each Amtrak Engine you get

Since this thread started there has been a landslide of news on Transit funding and lack there-of. We are looking at a very interesting year, and a chance at real change. By the way, Virginia just decided to start an Arlington Streetcar Taxation District, to fund Light Rail on the Dixie side of DC. I can post more if you'd like.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Please post more about Virginia's Streetcar Taxation District.  What are they doing to gain FTA funding or are they going about it on their own?

[Ocklawaha]

LAKE, I'm crawling to the keyboard as it is, just finished the bulk of the move, just the clean up to go tomorrow... But I'll post it soon.

MEANWHILE:



THE GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILROAD, in Portland as promised... Again, gone but not forgotten:


Portland Grand Trunk Station


Grand Trunks PINE TREE EXPRESS

Today the site of the Union Station is overgrown rubble and some dead end rail spurs not unlike Jacksonville Terminal,
Grand Trunk is nothing more then a couple of tracks with some historical society equipment slowly rusting away faster then donations can keep them painted.

Sad.

WE CAN DO BETTER THEN THIS JACKSONVILLE!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjohnsguy]

Mass transit would be the key to take Jax to the next tier of major cities...lets keep fighting the fight someone will listen!!!

[stjohnsguy]

lets also keep pushing for downtown to be the place to live:::: comments from the Hard Rock topic:             Well first thing is first ...Lets get a place to go downtown.Turn the Shipyards into a center piece of downtown.Bring in many different restaurants,clubs,an Imax theater.Maybe an Island of clubs on the St Johns.Similar to Downtown Disney.Add in many boat slips and some other attractions like a Dry docked naval carrier like the JFK or some other mothballed navy vessel.Use our current Convention center for a transit hub and build a new convention center on the old JEA site across the river.This way you would only have to take a river taxi across.Have live entertainers all over the shipyards.....Give us somewhere to take out of town guests.It is a great location close to the sports complex.    lets face it the landing is a joke!!!! bring in a Hard Rock,Planet Hollywood,and mix with some local flavor ....Boselli's nice!!!!   How about a Shooters on the water?!!!see  http://www.faneuilhallmarketplace.com/    or    http://www.harborplace.com    Boston and Baltimore

[alta]

Rail should be an easy sell to the politicians these days.  It's cheaper and increases property values.
Equation - Cost less than current mass transit and generates more revenue.  StJohnsGuy has some really good ideas.  I think they are very ambitious but worth striving for.  Many cities with far more and less than our population have achieved a vibrant urban core.  We don't have an excuse purely based on our populations.  We just have to change the mindset.  We can achieve a vibrant downtown core.  Be vigilant in supporting downtown businesses.  Contact your city council reps.  It will make a difference.   

[stjohnsguy]

CHARLOTTE HAS A PLAN......    http://publications.ingagepublication.com/charlottelightrail/DigitalPublication.php?width=1270&height=715     WAY TO GO JTA AND CITY LEADERS...THAT IS WHY CHARLOTTE HAS LEFT US IN THE DUST    CITY WITH VISION

[Coolyfett]

Light rail rocks! We need it, it should have already been here, and more money should not be wasted on BRT.


Whole point being disagreement and debate can occur with out personal attacks and name calling which happens all to often within the comments here. With the exception of a few "personal wars" I would not include, without fail anyone with a less than liberal opinion is called names and personally attacked. It has happened to me and I am not even conservative!

Respect the opinion and ideas"
 Does not mean you need to agree, just that you should listen, and if you disagree calmly and responsibly debate your position. This can be done without name calling and personal attacks. Take for instance this thread.  AndyB stated he was a conservative Christian, he also stated he didn't think the downtown should revolve around alcohol, several regulars jumped on those comments and made the assumption he wanted to ban alcohol downtown. At least in this case no one called AndyB a name, just assumed they knew what he was all about and ran with it. If some of the other regulars were posting here AndyB would of have been torn apart, called names, and degenerated for being a conservative Christian. If you still don’t see it I would be more than happy to go pull some comments made by "regulars" towards conservative Christians on other threads. While the articles are excellent (got me reading this forum years ago!) and most of the founders are sincere and intelligent there are some that should be curbed if you want any true discussions representing the diverse population of the city.

Uptown...hopefully you don't feel I was name calling @ Andy. Its just Andy stuck up for the turtles and that sorta irritated me. As far as the MJ.com beefs hey its good for the site, they are grown adults let them say what they need to say. I don't know any of these guys, but ID LIKE TO SEE JACKSONVILLE PROGRESS, I'm not on the side of this religion or that religion, Liberal or conservation. Id just like to see PROGRESS. PERIOD. Why being a Christian was even brought up I don't know, but Progress should have nothing to do with religion. Ill read opinions, but If I feel it backwards ill speak on it. Jacksonville has a lot that it NEEDS, if you are 20 right now when will you be able to enjoy those NEEDS? at 50? Time is ticking, we are all getting older and the powers that be, waste a lot of time. That's been my consistent issue with Jacksonville as a city. The "wasting of time" way of life. People need to get busy. Peace to you.

[Coolyfett]

Once again this site is full of odd comments.  Case in point:

Colyfett,

I live in Ortega, thanks for showing your ignorance.  There are plenty of people in Ortega and Mandarin that pay attention to this site and want to participate as well, until they read comments like yours that seem to always pop up.  This site originally seemed to be more constructive, now it is full of emotional people that let all of their thoughts and opinions fly without thinking of a way to more reasonably get a point across.  I would venture to say that you do not even know many people that live in the neighborhoods that you so hate.  If you want to make change in this city, the way to do it is not to appear uneducated and offensive to those actually in power.  There is always authority in the world and people in higher places, learn how to get their attention in a good light so that maybe they will listen.

I agree with the motives of the developers of this site, but let's not be rash or emotional.  Let's remain cool, calm, and collected, and maybe everyone will be happy to work together on these issues.

Ignorance? Plenty? lol you are reading what you want to read. I wasn't bashing Ortega or Mandarin, my point being if you live in those areas why would you care about nightlife in downtown? If you don't spend a lot of time in San Marco, Riverside or Springfield why would you really be interested (NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU SIMMS, just saying) If you are a member of city counsel or that establishment THEN YES, I am talking about you, if not your cool. Stephan Dare already made a bus riding topic stating some of the backward issues of the city's transportation...and most of it was sugar coated he only road for a MONTH, trying doing it for 6. I still give him props for doing the month though.

Looks simms, I don't know exactly what you are about, I don't know ya to call ya ignorant, but COOLYFETT is about PROGRESS----NBA, MLB, TRAINS/skyway/heavyrail, Major company skyscrapers, Tourism, Amusement parks, Naval bases, Downtown night life, public events...etc things that bring the people together, things that help, options. My religion, sexuality, political belief, is my biz some folks on here share, i'm just focused on the agenda of progress. take it easy. peace