Author Topic: Bombshell CNN Report. Intel Chiefs report Trump Russian Ties are Compromising.  (Read 3019 times)

Kerry

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Kerry, you seem like a perfectly nice guy, but you've said some rather strange things here. It's not a matter of politics, really, but the conclusions you draw. Here, the problem isn't that you see reason to doubt these reports. It's that beyond these doubts, you're expressing with unreasonable certainty that the reports are "fake" and that there's a conspiracy among the media and various others to push it. Similarly, you can believe Clinton is unfit for office, without coming to the conclusion, based on no evidence whatsoever, that she has Parkinson's. You're criticizing others for leaping to unreasonable conclusions, while leaping to unreasonable conclusions of your own. And these are not the only examples of you doing this.

Here is the difference.  It is one thing to take media reports, discuss them, play "what-if", etc...  It is something totally different to take media reports and demand that everyone accept them as 100% fact, and anyone not playing along is pure evil.

HRC had at the time an undisclosed medical condition - in fact, she ended up have three of them simultaneously.  She later disclosed that.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 04:35:07 PM by Kerry »
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Adam White

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It is something totally different to take media reports and demand that everyone accept them as 100% fact, and anyone not playing along is pure evil.

Has anyone done that? I certainly haven't. Or at least I don't think I have.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

stephendare

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Kerry, you seem like a perfectly nice guy, but you've said some rather strange things here. It's not a matter of politics, really, but the conclusions you draw. Here, the problem isn't that you see reason to doubt these reports. It's that beyond these doubts, you're expressing with unreasonable certainty that the reports are "fake" and that there's a conspiracy among the media and various others to push it. Similarly, you can believe Clinton is unfit for office, without coming to the conclusion, based on no evidence whatsoever, that she has Parkinson's. You're criticizing others for leaping to unreasonable conclusions, while leaping to unreasonable conclusions of your own. And these are not the only examples of you doing this.

Here is the difference.  It is one thing to take media reports, discuss them, play "what-if", etc...  It is something totally different to take media reports and demand that everyone accept them as 100% fact, and anyone not playing along is pure evil.

That is true. They are very different things. But I don't think that credulity is the same thing as pure evil.

Im sure if i sat around and concocted a few scenarios, I might be able to think of some circumstance where the source of pure evil sprang directly from an acute sense of credulity, but it would take e a while.
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Kerry

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Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?
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stephendare

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Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?

I think there is a lot of credibility in his Manafort revelations as they jibe with what is being said elsewhere.

I also think that the criticism that the report  'misspells' alfa bank as alpha bank is bogus since its the same letter in Cyrillic
And now abide faith, hope and love; these three, but the greatest of these is love

Adam White

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Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?

I don't know enough to have an opinion on whether it is true or not at this point. I think that if it is true - even partially true - then it's pretty serious and worrying. If it is false, then it is concerning in a different way - and I'd hope that whomever was behind it was prosecuted for it.

We'll see what happens. I am given to understand that a lot of it is unverifiable - so we may never know for certain. But the opinions of American intelligence agencies regarding its veracity matter to me, too and I would be willing (more or less) to accept whatever their ultimate conclusion is.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Kerry

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Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?

I think there is a lot of credibility in his Manafort revelations as they jibe with what is being said elsewhere.

I also think that the criticism that the report  'misspells' alfa bank as alpha bank is bogus since its the same letter in Cyrillic

Do you think it is possible those "other sources" happen to have been the very ones that were given this same information several months ago - so it is the same source at different times which creates a circular reference?

From Motherjones in October.  Are we not talking about the exact same information now that they had then?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump
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stephendare

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In the case of MotherJones the material was indeed discussed in great length by David Corn in october (which, btw, was before the supposed Nov 1 4chan 'hoax' claims.

But no, the manafort problems go back a ways to his days in the Ukrainian mess.

I don't think he can actually travel to the Ukraine as a result of his activities there. 

Here is an article from way back in March of last year.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/lawsuit-trump-aide-ukraine/
And now abide faith, hope and love; these three, but the greatest of these is love

Kerry

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Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?

I don't know enough to have an opinion on whether it is true or not at this point. I think that if it is true - even partially true - then it's pretty serious and worrying. If it is false, then it is concerning in a different way - and I'd hope that whomever was behind it was prosecuted for it.

We'll see what happens. I am given to understand that a lot of it is unverifiable - so we may never know for certain. But the opinions of American intelligence agencies regarding its veracity matter to me, too and I would be willing (more or less) to accept whatever their ultimate conclusion is.

Now that is perfect reasonable and I agree about 90%.  I voted for Trump, not because he is a Republican, but because he is a Nationalist (or at least says he is) - and most likely a moderate Nationalist.  If the Dems had run a Nationalist I might have voted for that person.  I voted for myself in the previous election.  If I think Trump is selling us out I'll be all over it.  I don't owe him any blind allegiance.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 05:02:20 PM by Kerry »
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Kay

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And how do you define "Nationalist?"

Okay - so lets do a reset then on this topic.

Who right now believes anything in this report from Christopher Steele?

I don't know enough to have an opinion on whether it is true or not at this point. I think that if it is true - even partially true - then it's pretty serious and worrying. If it is false, then it is concerning in a different way - and I'd hope that whomever was behind it was prosecuted for it.

We'll see what happens. I am given to understand that a lot of it is unverifiable - so we may never know for certain. But the opinions of American intelligence agencies regarding its veracity matter to me, too and I would be willing (more or less) to accept whatever their ultimate conclusion is.

Now that is perfect reasonable and I agree about 90%.  I voted for Trump, not because he is a Republican, but because he is a Nationalist (or at least says he is) - and most likely a moderate Nationalist.  If the Dems had run a Nationalist I might have voted for that person.  I voted for myself in the previous election.  If I think Trump is selling us out I'll be all over it.

Kerry

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In the case of MotherJones the material was indeed discussed in great length by David Corn in october (which, btw, was before the supposed Nov 1 4chan 'hoax' claims.

But no, the manafort problems go back a ways to his days in the Ukrainian mess.

I don't think he can actually travel to the Ukraine as a result of his activities there. 

Here is an article from way back in March of last year.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/lawsuit-trump-aide-ukraine/

So in the case of Manafort, Steele didn't provide any new information that wasn't already public knowledge over a year ago.
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stephendare

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In the case of MotherJones the material was indeed discussed in great length by David Corn in october (which, btw, was before the supposed Nov 1 4chan 'hoax' claims.

But no, the manafort problems go back a ways to his days in the Ukrainian mess.

I don't think he can actually travel to the Ukraine as a result of his activities there. 

Here is an article from way back in March of last year.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/lawsuit-trump-aide-ukraine/

So in the case of Manafort, Steele didn't provide any new information that wasn't already public knowledge over a year ago.

i take it that you haven't actually bothered reading either the new report or the link i provided.
And now abide faith, hope and love; these three, but the greatest of these is love

Kerry

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And how do you define "Nationalist?"

That is a good question Kay, and I don't know that I have a real good answer.  Mainly, I want my national government to look out for the best interest of its citizens and not be so manipulative of other countries. I don't want to be the world police.
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jlmann

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I voted for Trump, not because he is a Republican, but because he is a Nationalist (or at least says he is) - and most likely a moderate Nationalist.

Somehow I want to laugh, cry, punch someone and punch myself, all at the same time.

jlmann

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I don't know that I have a real good answer

You can't even define the reason you provided for voting for Trump.  Do you regard yourself as intelligent?  Serious question