Author Topic: Bombshell CNN Report. Intel Chiefs report Trump Russian Ties are Compromising.  (Read 2373 times)

stephendare

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I remember British Intel providing information on some other data that later proved to be particularly false...16 words of it, I believe were cited in a speech to Congress...
In both cases now, you've suggested that the underlying intelligence shouldn't be examined at all.

In the lead up to the Iraq War, we didn't vet or discuss the reports.

So now, to change things up, lets not vet or discuss the report.
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Ron Mexico

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Examine it all.  Please review it, check sources, hold hearings, etc.  But the fact that so many are now willing to accept this as absolute truth by the same intelligence organizations that lead us into Iraq without going through that examination and fact-checking.  Much like a Word document that said the former President was a poor National Guard officer.  He probably was, but we should demand better of the news organizations we rely on to make decisions about our government.
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Adam White

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Examine it all.  Please review it, check sources, hold hearings, etc.  But the fact that so many are now willing to accept this as absolute truth by the same intelligence organizations that lead us into Iraq without going through that examination and fact-checking.  Much like a Word document that said the former President was a poor National Guard officer.  He probably was, but we should demand better of the news organizations we rely on to make decisions about our government.

This report is not from the SIS (MI6). It's from a private contractor.
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stephendare

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Examine it all.  Please review it, check sources, hold hearings, etc.  But the fact that so many are now willing to accept this as absolute truth by the same intelligence organizations that lead us into Iraq without going through that examination and fact-checking.  Much like a Word document that said the former President was a poor National Guard officer.  He probably was, but we should demand better of the news organizations we rely on to make decisions about our government.

And how have you gauged the willingness to accept the reports as the absolute truth?

Polling? Correspondence? intuition?
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stephendare

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/christopher-steele-ex-british-intelligence-officer-said-to-have-prepared-dossier-on-trump-1484162553?emailToken=JRrzc/98aHmXg9U9bsw31EcpdbUPE%2B%2BEXBbMMH3HPkWJuWyQq/ig26Quh562p3%2BiQUJ76N0C5GN6QjPfgWFnRoqKkr9z1EujPnlUsJyByReGIk3BkULPce0HrajY5Gxu6OxHABVVep1KgRGk6Eev840E

By BRADLEY HOPE,  MICHAEL ROTHFELD and  ALAN CULLISON
Jan. 11, 2017 2:22 p.m. ET
A former British intelligence officer now working for a private security-and-investigations firm produced the dossier of unverified allegations about President-elect Donald Trump’s activities and connections in Russia, people familiar with the matter say.

Christopher Steele, a director of London-based Orbis Business Intelligence Ltd., prepared the dossier, the people said. The document alleges that the Kremlin colluded with Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign and claims that Russian officials have compromising evidence of Mr. Trump’s behavior that could be used to blackmail him. Mr. Trump has dismissed the contents of the dossier as false and Russia has denied the claims.

Mr. Steele, 52 years old, is one of two directors of the firm, along with Christopher Burrows, 58.

Mr. Burrows, reached at his home outside London on Wednesday, said he wouldn’t “confirm or deny” that Orbis had produced the report. A neighbor of Mr. Steele’s said Mr. Steele said he would be away for a few days. In previous weeks Mr. Steele has declined repeated requests for interviews through an intermediary, who said the subject was “too hot.”

A LinkedIn profile in Mr. Burrows’s name says he was a counselor in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, with foreign postings in Brussels and New Delhi in the 2000s. The Foreign Office declined to comment. A LinkedIn profile for Mr. Steele doesn’t give specifics about his career. Intelligence officers often use diplomatic postings as cover for their espionage activities.

Orbis Business Intelligence was formed in 2009 by former British intelligence professionals, it says on its website. U.K. corporate records say Orbis is owned by another company that in turn is jointly owned by Messrs. Steele and Burrows. It occupies offices in an ornate building overlooking Grosvenor Gardens in London’s high-end Belgravia neighborhood.

The firm relies on a “global network” of experts and business leaders, provides clients with strategic advice, mounts “intelligence-gathering operations” and conducts “complex, often cross-border investigations,” its website says.

The dossier consists of a series of unsigned memos that appear to have been written between June and December 2016. Beyond creating the document, Mr. Steele also came up with a plan to get the information to law-enforcement officials in the U.S. and Europe, including the F.B.I., according to a person familiar with the matter.

Speaking about corporate-intelligence work in general terms, Mr. Burrows said “the objective is to respond to the requirements set out by our clients. We have no political ax to grind.”

He said when clients asked a firm like Orbis to investigate something, you “see what’s out there” first and later “stress test” your findings against other evidence.

No presidential campaigns or super PACs reported payments to Orbis in their required Federal Election Commission filings. But several super PACs over the course of the campaign have reported that they paid limited liability companies, whose ultimate owners may be difficult or impossible to discern.

The dossier’s emergence—it was published online and widely circulated Tuesday—has generated a firestorm less than 10 days before Mr. Trump’s inauguration. U.S. officials have examined the allegations but haven’t confirmed any of them. The Wall Street Journal also hasn’t corroborated any of the allegations in the dossier.

“It’s all fake news,” Mr. Trump said in a news conference Wednesday. “It’s all phony stuff. It didn’t happen.”

The dossier contains lurid and difficult-to-prove allegations. The F.B.I. has found no evidence, for example, supporting the dossier’s claim that an attorney for Mr. Trump traveled to the Czech Republic to meet with Kremlin officials, U.S. officials said. The attorney has also denied the claim.

The author of the report had a good reputation in the intelligence world and was stationed in Russia for years, said John Sipher, who retired in 2014 after 28 years in the CIA’s clandestine service, where he specialized in Russia and counterintelligence. Mr. Sipher is now director of client services at CrossLead Inc., a Washington-based technology company set up by retired U.S. Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

Private-intelligence firms like Orbis have a growing presence. Major corporations use them to conduct due diligence on potential business partners in risky areas, but quality control can be loose when it comes to high-level political intrigue, according to executives of private intelligence companies.

When government intelligence agencies produce clandestine political reports, they often include thick sections about sources, possible motivations behind their information and the methods used to approach them. Such background helps decision makers determine how reliable the information is.

Andrew Wordsworth, co-founder of London-based investigations firm Raedas, who often works on Russian issues, said the memos in the Trump dossier were “not convincing at all.”

“It’s just way too good,” he said. “If the head of the CIA were to declare he got information of this quality, you wouldn’t believe it.”

Mr. Wordsworth said it wouldn’t make sense for Russian intelligence officials to be exposing state secrets to a former MI-6 officer, because “Russians believe once you are an agent, you’re an agent forever.”

—Jenny Gross and Jason Douglas contributed to this article.
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Adam White

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My track record?

Well, as an example:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,27759.msg453125.html#msg453125

Quote
Well, I started this as a hypothetical discussion on a candidate dropping out before the election as I was 100% sure HRC would not drop out of the race unless she dropped dead, but now I am not so sure.  After events and revelations over the last few days I am almost certain that she has advanced Parkinson's Disease (Stage IV and moving in to Stage V).  Alas, I still think there is no way she quits unless she collapses on stage during a debate (which is increasing in probability every minute).

Since this site is heavily populated by Democrats I have to ask, if she in fact does have Stage IV Parkinson's Disease would you prefer her to drop out and let someone else campaign, or just ride it to the end?
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Kerry

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My track record?

Well, as an example:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,27759.msg453125.html#msg453125

Quote
Well, I started this as a hypothetical discussion on a candidate dropping out before the election as I was 100% sure HRC would not drop out of the race unless she dropped dead, but now I am not so sure.  After events and revelations over the last few days I am almost certain that she has advanced Parkinson's Disease (Stage IV and moving in to Stage V).  Alas, I still think there is no way she quits unless she collapses on stage during a debate (which is increasing in probability every minute).

Since this site is heavily populated by Democrats I have to ask, if she in fact does have Stage IV Parkinson's Disease would you prefer her to drop out and let someone else campaign, or just ride it to the end?

Dude really, that is the best you have?  You're out of your league here.
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Kerry

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

It looks like this is some Jason Bourne wannabe who needed some cash and decided to take advantage of some people willing to pay for anything.  I wonder if he tried to contact Dan Rather.
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stephendare

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I agree. I doubt that Adam has the credentials to diagnose late parkinsons disease so precisely.  Stage IV moving into Stage V apparently....after glancing at a few photos and reading a few right wing websites.

How do they stack up against yours, Kerry?

You've worked in Parkinson's research and treatment for many many years, I suspect.
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jlmann

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Quote
Well, I started this as a hypothetical discussion on a candidate dropping out before the election as I was 100% sure HRC would not drop out of the race unless she dropped dead, but now I am not so sure.  After events and revelations over the last few days I am almost certain that she has advanced Parkinson's Disease (Stage IV and moving in to Stage V).  Alas, I still think there is no way she quits unless she collapses on stage during a debate (which is increasing in probability every minute).

Since this site is heavily populated by Democrats I have to ask, if she in fact does have Stage IV Parkinson's Disease would you prefer her to drop out and let someone else campaign, or just ride it to the end?

or in other words:

"People are saying she has parkinsons.  Very smart people.  Now, I don't if its true or not, but people are talking about it.  And so I have to ask what happens if she does?"

I've heard this routine somewhere...

Kerry

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What's a matter - the outrage of the day fell apart so we going back to the outrage of yesterday.

BTW - my comment needs to be put in context.  That was right after the day we all saw HRC being loaded into a van like an 80lbs bag of water softener salt with feet dragging and wearing those crazy blue-tinted glasses.  That's not fake news - that really happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flZeHc-jKtw
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Adam White

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Quote
Well, I started this as a hypothetical discussion on a candidate dropping out before the election as I was 100% sure HRC would not drop out of the race unless she dropped dead, but now I am not so sure.  After events and revelations over the last few days I am almost certain that she has advanced Parkinson's Disease (Stage IV and moving in to Stage V).  Alas, I still think there is no way she quits unless she collapses on stage during a debate (which is increasing in probability every minute).

Since this site is heavily populated by Democrats I have to ask, if she in fact does have Stage IV Parkinson's Disease would you prefer her to drop out and let someone else campaign, or just ride it to the end?

or in other words:

"People are saying she has parkinsons.  Very smart people.  Now, I don't if its true or not, but people are talking about it.  And so I have to ask what happens if she does?"

I've heard this routine somewhere...

But the difference between that (the alleged parkinsons) and the current Trump scandal is that the parkinsons thing was purely speculation with no evidence whatsoever. It was invented out of whole cloth by people who wanted to believe it because of their distaste for Clinton.

The current Trump scandal originates from a report compiled by someone who is apparently credible. The report was considered credible enough to warrant a Presidential briefing. It may turn out to be fiction - but at least it's based on something and there are reasons to take it seriously enough or not wholly dismiss it.

I hope our intelligence services get to the bottom of this. And I hope it's not true - because although it would be sad to find out that someone would stoop to this level to besmirch the incoming President, at least it would mean he's not compromised by the FSB. And that would be a good thing.

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Tacachale

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Kerry, you seem like a perfectly nice guy, but you've said some rather strange things here. It's not a matter of politics, really, but the conclusions you draw. Here, the problem isn't that you see reason to doubt these reports. It's that beyond these doubts, you're expressing with unreasonable certainty that the reports are "fake" and that there's a conspiracy among the media and various others to push it. Similarly, you can believe Clinton is unfit for office, without coming to the conclusion, based on no evidence whatsoever, that she has Parkinson's. You're criticizing others for leaping to unreasonable conclusions, while leaping to unreasonable conclusions of your own. And these are not the only examples of you doing this.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Adam White

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What's a matter - the outrage of the day fell apart so we going back to the outrage of yesterday.

BTW - my comment needs to be put in context.  That was right after the day we all saw HRC being loaded into a van like an 80lbs bag of water softener salt with feet dragging and wearing those crazy blue-tinted glasses.  That's not fake news - that really happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flZeHc-jKtw

But parkinson's disease? That was - and is still - nothing more than a conspiracy "theory". I can find some more examples of your track record if you'd like.
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Adam White

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Kerry, you seem like a perfectly nice guy, but you've said some rather strange things here. It's not a matter of politics, really, but the conclusions you draw. Here, the problem isn't that you see reason to doubt these reports. It's that beyond these doubts, you're expressing with unreasonable certainty that the reports are "fake" and that there's a conspiracy among the media and various others to push it. Similarly, you can believe Clinton is unfit for office, without coming to the conclusion, based on no evidence whatsoever, that she has Parkinson's. You're criticizing others for leaping to unreasonable conclusions, while leaping to unreasonable conclusions of your own. And these are not the only examples of you doing this.

^this
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”