Transit Oriented Development Workshop coming in August

[thelakelander]

Although to be fair to Carlton, it does seem as though the JTA went out of their way to sabotage any hope of success by simply not supervising the Skyway, allowing it to be locked at 6 pm and on the weekends, thereby turning the parking garage into an elaborate trap.

To be fair to Carlton, Kings Avenue Station is not a real TOD.  No matter what wolf tickets, some local are calling it, its really a TAD (Transit Adjacent Development), which is a huge difference in the urban planning world.  Its a project that would have been feasible for the location, regardless of whether the skyway is a block away or not.  Real TODs have mass transit as a central focal point, not a side act.  The Bay Street Station and Jackson Square projects better fit the definition of Transit Oriented Development.

[thelakelander]

Ock, I would love to go along with you and catalog.

Anyone good with photos?

Oretga Village

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/713/117/

Fairfax (the street is this wide, because streetcar tracks once ran in this area)


Park & King


Five Points


Edgewood Avenue


Main Street


Hendricks Avenue


The list goes on.  Just about any commercial district in town, where a decent number of brick buildings line the street, the date back to pre-1930's, were most likely along old streetcar routes.
These areas also happen to rate the highest in www.walkscore.com's recent rankings.  If we what Jacksonville to become walkable again.  The answer is simple and clear.....build rail.

[thelakelander]

The pattern of old streetcar tracks in Aberdeen Street, in Avondale. A nice image for those urbanites that don't believe streetcar routes are compatible for residential dominated streets in our historic districts.


While the focus of this upcoming TOD workshop deals with new construction TODs.  We can learn alot about how to best develop today's TOD by taking a serious look into how they were developed around the turn of the century.

[Ocklawaha]

Sure thing y'all ASAP. We'll have to beat this $&#& RAIN... But most of the work needs to be shot along Oak and May, Snips of Dellwood, College and Edison. Another area is San Marco. In distant areas of the Northside there are still a few visible. Buffalo and Talleyrand (the ties were tracks were visible in recent sewer repairs).

Anyone still doubt that Main can't do the job for streetcars? That new median is up to 36 feet wide, most being 24'. 8Th is 8-9 feet in width. All fits just replace black with green grass.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

The new Main median is not 36' wide.  Its going to be the same narrow thing they currently have in place between 1st and 4th.  By my count, it can't be anymore than 10' to 12' wide.  Imo, as long as Main remains an FDOT funded highway, you won't see streetcars on it any time soon.  Its difficult enough just getting pedestrian curb cuts there.  Ripping up what they are spending millions to do now to put down track in existing road lanes would be WWIII.

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, I was talking to the crew chief with measure in hand, he went over the widest points and the narrows with me. With parking gone, at it's widest it reaches 36'. At least the job did, which to them constitutes the "median". The center lanes are a good 12' on Main, 8' - 9' on 8Th depending if you count the concrete you might get to 10'. A railroad tie is 8', cars range from 8-11 feet depending on the type and conditions. I'm not worried about re-re-re-re doing Main, it's done all the time, look at Hendricks, and THAT for a stupid overshight! There are a zillion funding sources under IceTea or Streetscape, Main Street and other urban programs to underwite this, and hey, we're only talking maybe 10 blocks of Main, and 6 of 8Th to Shands.

The important thing in this thread is we won't go out and buy up 1/2 of Springfield, to build laundry mats and c-stores and call them TODS.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

If anyone is interested in attending this workshop, they should RSVP ASAP...we alkready have 65 people attending and the room only holds 90.

[SL32205]

Are you sure rail/streetcars ran down Herschel in the Fairfax area?  I understood that rail ran down St. Johns Avenue from town, then looped back using Aberdeen, as shown in the photos - rather than extending further.

Do you have photographic evidence or maps of these routes?

[thelakelander]

Ock has a map somewhere.  I believe the streetcars ran all the way down to NAS Jax.  Some of the old track is still visible from aerials of the base.

[thelakelander]

Here's Ock's map of the old streetcar routes

[thelakelander]

Is it safe to assume this workshop is canceled?

[tufsu1]

Is it safe to assume this workshop is canceled?

yes....the workshop has been postponed.....looking to reschedule possibly on September 4th (same time, same place).

Once the date has been locked down (should be sometime today), info. will be sent out

[thelakelander]

Here's the revised information:

[Coolyfett]

Since they feature the 2 TODs in the flier, chances are they will both be built??

[tufsu1]

FYI....in order to accomodate more people (over 100 have registered) the TOD workshop scheduled for tomorrow has been moved to City Hall...First Floor...Lynwood Roberts Room