Riot In Riverside! July 4th riot brings mayhem.

[NotNow]

Over reacting seems to be the appropriate term, for this breathless thread.

[stephendare]

Is this story getting ignored by the TV stations for some reason?

Fear of bad publicity maybe? Nah, just kidding...normally they would be all over something like this with huge spotlights and raucous interviews from "exclusive" eye-witnesses. Kinda strange. I agree they need footage but they all have police and rescue scanners - they would have to had known about it. Plus the lack of footage doesn't prevent them for going after the fact and doing close-ups of blood stains on the concrete, shattered glass, empty tear gas cans etc. and a quote from Rutherford asking for more cops on the mean streets of Jax.   

lol.

[stephendare]

Over reacting seems to be the appropriate term, for this breathless thread.

I dunno.  Seems like riots, shootings, police mis steps and a thousand people in a scuffle merit attention.  The copters must have thought so anyways.

[caravaggio]

I was there in the thick of it as part of the art shows for First Fridays.

People started showing up early for a Boyz of Poison (I have no idea who this is) show at the theater. Everything was going fairly well early on, though the line was down the street and the crowd kind of screwed up the whole art scene thing.

Anyway, later on the off duty police who were running the show realized that the people running the show weren't counting the number of people going in. I'm pretty sure it was way over capacity as there were easily a few thousand people who showed up for it. So the fire department and police decided to tell everyone else that was waiting in line to go home. That's when problems began... the people (a fairly young crowd 13-mid 20's I'd say) got pretty upset by being turned away.

For the most part they just stood around in the middle of Park St. A few fights broke out. Things didn't get bad until someone got tasered. Then people were running overtop of each other to get away... then they would jsut come back and the whole process would repeat.

Later lots of police showed up and they blocked off the street. The helicopter (only one that I saw) was hovering only a few feet above the buldings doing constant circles for a few hours.

Things I actually saw? Police in the full body armor set up, I saw the tear gas or whatever it was, a few police running up and down Park with what looked like assault rifles (but, they might have been the rubber bullet rifles, not sure)a few art patrons I knew got hit in the face by mace, a lot of small fights and people being put in the big police bus. The police told me that three people had been shot. I thought I heard gun shots more than once through the night, but it was also the 4th, so...

My understanding is much of the bad stuff ended up happening at either end of Park as that is where the police were herding all of these people to go, but I never went over there to look and see what was up.

We had to stay there the whole time (cleared up around 12ish) as the police told all of us it would be too dangerous to try to drive out. At times it would clear up enough on Park that you could go out on the street and take a peek around, but then a few minutes later another few hundred people would press their way in and it would all start over again.

It was pretty out of control. The guy running the show at the theater was really nice, eariler before all of this happened he was sending down his off duty cops to try to get people out of our doors so we could continue with our shows and what not. He hadn't expected more than a few hundred people to show up... so he was completely unprepared for the crowd.

Anyway, that's my perspective.

[NotNow]

What riot?  How much property damage is out there this morning?  What shooting?  The police involved shooting was in Arlington.  What police mis-steps?  Your quote:
"Dane, a neighborhood resident reports that the problem began when the police over reacted to crowd density on the streets.

They felt there were more people than they would be able to handle in case of a problem, and so they started telling people to back off the streets and sidewalks."

gives "Dane" omnipotent knowledge of how this incident began and what the police were thinking.   Was he privy to the initial calls for police service?  Does he have insight into the mind of each Police Officer?  What was his location for such an observation?  How is he biased?  Where did you obtain the number of one thousand people?  From what I have heard, this was a rap concert where a bunch of juveniles got out of hand and were dispersed by the police.  It happens almost every weekend in Jax.

And by the way, I am always amazed when I hear reports such as these how experienced Officers "get real nervous" and over react, while the (usually juvenile) suspects who are causing a police response stay completely calm.  How many injuries to these young "innocents" were caused by these over reacting, nervous Officers?  

[thebrokenforum]

What riot?

From caravaggio's description it sounds like a riot to me.

From what I have heard, this was a rap concert where a bunch of juveniles got out of hand and were dispersed by the police.

Key word there being "heard".

You sound worked up over this...which is odd. I think everyone is just trying to flesh out the story. You have to admit that if tear gas was used, multiple people were tasered, riot gear suited up, helicopters deployed (cue Robert Downey Jr.) and possibly rubber bullets used it seems really odd that the news hasn't picked it up. But then again stuff like that isn't a big deal because it happens almost every weekend in Jax...

[stephendare]

Well actually, the Times Union works on skeleton crew for the weekend, and the other guys were all doing other stuff.

Anyways Not Not, not to be a dick about it, but weve heard from 5 people who were there and you werent, so......

[NotNow]

Really?  I thought that I was pointing out how "worked up" the reporting was.  And I suppose that I misspoke, I haven't heard anything, this is the only place where I have seen anything about this.  "Riot" is not a term that I would have applied to this, but OK, if that's what you want to call it, I'll go along.  But look at the title of the thread,"Riot in Riverside!  July 4th riot brings mayhem".  Mayhem?  Really?

JSO doesn't issue riot gear to patrol.  The most you would have seen is a helmet.  No tear gas either, just pepper spray in individual spray cans.  In other words, the gas cannisters you see shot or thrown into crowds were not there.  Pepper spray would have been used to help disperse a crowd AFTER several warnings.  No rubber bullets, either.  Not issued.  The helicopter is used to emphasize to an unruly crowd that the police are there in force, and to comply with orders to disperse.  Yes, I guess that it is quite unusual if your not used to it.  That is the idea.  Police might have deployed rifles if a shooting was reported.  But it is common in situations like this that these "shootings" are false reports, and that seems to be the case from last night.  And where did you hear about multiple taserings?  But,  even if there were, the taser is documented as the most efficient way to ensure the fewest possible injuries to resisting suspects and Officers.  

I say all of this so that the fine people living in Riverside do not get the wrong idea about what happened in their neighborhood.  We hear so much negative about Jax that I think that we should at least be accurate.  I hope to sound reasonable and not "worked up".  I do not mean to demean caravaggio as I am sure that he is relaying his observations.  I am simply trying to explain how this response can be misinterpreted.  

And yes, these things DO happen almost every weekend in Jax.  

[NotNow]

Well actually, the Times Union works on skeleton crew for the weekend, and the other guys were all doing other stuff.

Anyways Not Not, not to be a dick about it, but weve heard from 5 people who were there and you werent, so......

OK Stephen, your right.  I wasn't there.  I was however on duty last night and am somewhat aware of what happened around the city.  But I will defer to your reporting.  I'll be curious to see the news reports.

[thebrokenforum]

Not now, when you say "on duty" do mean that you're a cop? Dispatch? rescue? Just curious. It will be nice to have some personal insight on the multiple crime issues the city has.

[stephendare]

awesome dude.

[NotNow]

I am a Police Officer. 

[stephendare]

I am a Police Officer. 

ah.  Which explains the defensiveness.   

Dude, cops saved me and John's lives on many occasions in Springfield.  No doubt about it.  When you owe an organization your life, its hard to criticize it lightly, and no disrespect intended, im sure regarding the police.

It seems like the only criticism that might be extrapolated from the thread is about crowd management, which is an ongoing concern.  That many people on a drunk night like the 4th and anyone would get cautious and defensive.  (I personally stay away from busy places on the 4th.)  But I do think that its been so long that there has been a healthy active street life at night that crowd management is a skill that needs to be examined locally.

[thebrokenforum]

I figured as much. Ok, so I'm dying to ask...are 40 more guys just like yourself the answer to the murder capital of Fla. If not, what is? What works? What doesn't? What would you like to see done?

[stephendare]

Any reports out there of who got shot?  Maced?