Duval County Courthouse: Still stumbling in the Dark

[thelakelander]

Lake, you mentioned about pedestrain traffic, well does the city know or care about what that means.

There are those who talk a good game but when you continue to see stuff like this come online it makes you wonder if people are in over their heads.  There are good and bad examples in our peer cities all across this country and we still refuse to get it right.  There has been more focus on the design of the building itself instead of how it fits within the black hole it created. This is unfortunate, because it shows we have not learned from our planning mistakes of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Well, to be honest with you, I would beg to differ about our city planning of the past. A lot of what the city had done was not so bad considering their good intentions of making downtown a great place to visit. I don't think that the new courthouse design is all that bad either. Hopefully, the city may one day put something good around it like a fountain or a couple of low rise buildings. Keep the Faith!  

Visit any of our peer cities, then immediately try finding five places not located in a hotel or the Landing for a decent Monday night sit down meal in the Northbank and tell me if you would feel the same way.  If so, someone needs to share the kool aid.

Basstacular,

The "E" street (or whatever its called these days) dream is long term.  What happens at and around the new courthouse site will develop or not years before anything rises at the Bay Street location.  At a miniumum, it will be at least five or six years before anything rises on the existing courthouse site.  If there are public sector delays or poor economic conditions additional years will be tacked on. 

Nevertheless, both are related issues (along with the convention and transportation center) and can not be planned in a vacuum as you suggest.  We've done things this way for the last 50 years and a walk around downtown at night proves this is a bad model to continue to follow.  At this point, without having any idea of how to plan long term or the will to follow an existing downtown master plan with each individual DT development, what would make anyone believe that "E" street will become a bustling district on the southside of Bay within the next 10 to 15 years?

[Ocklawaha]

This is the age of technology. 

Maybe so, but my house sill burns COAL and *slings lightning.

*(telegraph)


OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

Delaney, 2 Peyton aides to testify in courthouse case
Grand jury given an extension to review.

Jacksonville’s former mayor and two of the current mayor’s top aides will testify next week before a grand jury investigating the Duval County courthouse project and its cost overruns.

Full Article:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2008-12-05/delaney_2_peyton_aides_to_testify_in_courthouse_case

[thelakelander]

Confirmed.  Dead space on Broad, Duval and Pearl Streets.  A passive mini park at the Monroe Street entrance.  I'm still wondering what will happen with the two blocks between the Monroe Street entrance and Adams Street?

DDRB OKs Courthouse design

Thursday’s meeting won’t be the last time the Courthouse project will be before the DDRB, however. Final approval was granted along with deviations from design standards on three issues. The design will not be required to include pedestrian entrances on Broad, Duval or Pearl streets in order to limit general access to the Courthouse as a way to improve building security. An addition, deviation was granted to allow the Courthouse to reach 195 feet in height, consistent with other nearby buildings including the Federal Courthouse.

The third deviation request was to modify the design on the Monroe Street side of the Courthouse in order to allow for a public plaza and landscaping to complement the development.

Landscape architect and DDRB chair Chris Flagg, who had recused himself from voting on the Courthouse review due to being a subcontractor on the project, left his chair at the head of the table to take up the laser pointer and explain the concepts behind the plaza design.

Flagg said the entrance to the Courthouse will be a “mini park” where people might have lunch under a canopy of shade trees. He also said the design includes half the minimum space between trees required by law (30 feet apart rather than 60 feet) since the Duval Street parking lot included in the design will not include shade trees.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=51371

[brainstormer]

I just vomited in my mouth a little.  Who can shed some light on the DDRB?  What is their purpose and who is on the board?  Am I the only one who thinks their decisions on most things are the wrong ones for this city?  Are they just puppets of our crappy mayor?  I take it they are appointed, but by whom?  Is there any way to get rid of the members?  Why aren't they speaking up?  Do they have emails?  Enlighten me 

[Keith-N-Jax]

Who can shed light on anything they do. Why have guidelines, do studies, spend money on task force and then do the opposite of what you have just learned. Speechless.

[BridgeTroll]

I agree... Who are these people?  What do they do?  How did they get there?  How are they appointed?  How are they removed?  What is the process?  Are decisions reviewable?  By Who?  Do they have a website?  Email?  Are they really vampires?

[brainstormer]

All right, my anger got the best of me so I started researching.  I've posted the board members below.  They seem to be a well credentialed bunch, but obviously lacking in leadership, vision, guts and common sense.  I wonder how many gave money to Peyton's campaign. 

Members

Chair- Christopher D. Flagg RLA, ASLA, Flagg Design Studio, LLC - Landscape Architect Representative

Vice-Chair- James F. Bailey, Jr., Bailey Publishing and Communications, Inc. - Downtown Property Owner Representative

Secretary- Jonathon Garza, W.G. Mills, Inc. - Contractor/Developer/ Realtor Representative                   

Timothy Miller, Ervin Lovett and Miller - Downtown Property Owner Representative

Logan Rink, 13 Minute Productions, LLC - Downtown Property Owner Representative

Montasser M. Selim, Reynolds, Smith & Hill (RS&H) - Urban Planner Representative

Andy Sikes, Baptist Health - Urban Planner Representative     

Roland Udenze, Haskell Architects and Engineers - Architect Representative                                         

Rose Zurawski, Gresham Smith and Partners - Architect Representative

On another note, if you follow the link below, you can click on the agenda from this past Thursday's meeting.  If you scroll down to page 22, you can view the final presentation of the courthouse design; many scaled drawings included.  This thing is worse than I first thought.  It does not fit into our downtown at all.  It is huge and ugly and looks like a Mega Block in a set of LEGOs!!!  The only public entrance faces a parking garage!  I could go on and on.  I'm embarrassed for Jacksonville.  A true waste of money.  I think I'll cry and then open a bottle of wine.

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/DDRB+Meeting+Information.htm

[BridgeTroll]

Thanks for the research... enjoy the wine...

[RiversideGator]

I forgot how soul destroyingly ugly and poorly designed the proposed courthouse was for a few days.  Is there any way this can be delayed until we can elect a new mayor with vision and good taste?   

[JaxByDefault]

soul destroyingly ugly

An apt --and perhaps understated --description of the proposed courthouse.

Assuming environmental is cleared, courthouse opposition is left with market forces, massive citizen outcry, or the discovery of bid/contract procurement irregularities. Other than that, prey the first backhoe finds a massive archaeological site.

[alta]

Mayor Peyton is seeking stimulus dollars for the courthouse from the proposed stimulus 2 plan.  We as citizens should force this on the next administration.  Let's make this courthouse vertical and sell the land around it.  It's downtown.  I dare to find a courthouse in any city our size that has the same footprint?? 

[fsujax]

reading through the minutes just blows my mind. Look at the conversation about allowing BofA to add signs to their building.It will create a "messy" skyline..give me a break.

[thelakelander]

Check out the October courthouse design meeting minutes between the board and Councilman Bishop.  Bishop really knows his stuff.  Its just too bad no one really paid attention to him.  Anyway, according to these presentations, the courthouse should be breaking ground pretty soon.

[JaxByDefault]

Bishop made some excellent comments about the courthouse design and it's long-term negative impact on downtown development. It is a shame his comments were not met with more support.

My favorite part of the presentation is the acknowledgement that the "greenspace"/ "pedestrian-friendly plaza" is really just space for future horizontal expansion.