Commuter Rail Citizens Group Meeting

[JeffreyS]

Commuter Rail Citizens Group meeting
5:30 PM - 7:30 PM

This meeting will be held at the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, 100 N. Myrtle Avenue, Jacksonville.

Let's have a good showing.

[thelakelander]

This meeting should be interesting.  According to the agenda, they'll be showcasing specific corridors and station locations.

[Charles Hunter]

Was that today?  I thought it was this Thursday (the 15th)??

[thelakelander]

Its Thursday at 5:30pm.

[Charles Hunter]

ahhh ... the first post was cornfusing

[JeffreyS]

Sorry I posted it through the calender and didn't think to type in the date. I cut and pasted from the JTA website.

[stephendare]

The meeting was interesting.  MetroJacksonville attended it last night.

The first 37 days of the meeting were the hardest, but it got lively towards the end.

Bob Mann managed to mention trolley cars only three times during the meeting which seemed to have last at least two lunar cycles, a restraint no one who knows our beloved Transit Monster believed possible.  In fact he gave great input on a couple of points (which was as welcome as sugar diabetes to the consultants and JTA people, even though they did have to acknowledge that he was making excellent points)

It was also apparently open season on old people during the meeting.

Its been my experience that whenever it comes to Trains, the Old Guys have forgotten more than anybody living will ever even learn on the subject and they should be listened to carefully.  Its also been my experience that this never happens.

Sadly, most of them are too dignified to do anything like throw a bedpan or start passing explosive gas until they have everyones undivided attention and the minute you start yelling at them, clam up and let you find out the disastrous consequences of your dumbassery all by yourself without any of their help.

Last night was no exception.  They seemed to be polite and intent on discussing some conflict or tie in with Amtrak something or another but the kabosh got put on that as soon as they mentioned it.

I can hardly wait to find out what deal killer went undiscussed last night as a result.

The second half of the meeting actually resembled a meeting with actual public input and got fairly invigorating.

[thelakelander]

We probably need to keep things simple first.  When we make things too complicated and expensive, we normally end up throwing the baby out with the bath water and getting nothing done, wasting everyone's time and effort.

The Amtrak discussion is probably one of those topics would be better discussed with JTA outside of the scheduled commuter rail meetings, similar to the meeting we had with JTA representatives before the official meeting.  Its going to be difficult enough just getting something locally off the ground.  Regional connections to Gainesville and Orlando would be great, but lets make sure a connection from Downtown to St. Augustine, Orange Park or the Airport makes sense and is up and running first. 

At this point, it seems like JTA's goal is to determine if local commuter rail is feasible and if so, what route should be chosen first, what type of commuter rail should it be and where should we locate the stations.  Once we know a little more about these items, then it would make sense to bring Amtrak into the discussion, since there's a possibility that they could run the system.

[stephendare]

I don't think the old guys were making the conversation more complex though.

They were apparently making a suggestion that would make rail transit a lot easier, except that the Central Florida DOT rep didnt want to hear them out.

Her discussion was really about creating a 'backbone' for an intercity commuter rail system by exactly duplicating an already exististing deal that Amtrak has with the railroads.

Anyways, what they had to say would have been no less useful than the 30 minute dissertation by the JEA Consultants to explain to us what a 'railroad' does and the detailed genome of each of the local examples..lol.

[thelakelander]

She wasn't there for that.  Her purpose for being there was to build support for their project, attempting to drive home the point that if they get their plan off the ground, other cities will be able to and one day down the line, we can all connect them.  The project Orlando is working on has been planned for years and is pretty much finalized.  The time for changing/adding routes has long passed.  To this effect, the Amtrak discussion was definately outside of her scope, expertise and reason for being there.

The Orlando plan is certainly not a duplication of Amtrak.  It would serve a different clientele with several additional stations at a much higher frequency for a cheaper ticket price.  As I understand it, the deal Amtrak and Tri-Rail both have with CSX is the same one they want the State to sign.  This revolves around liability, not the type of service.

Now I will say, we do need to be involved right now with Amtrak and the South Florida's discussions about using the FEC line for a connection between Jacksonville and Miami.  That really sounds like something we can piggyback off of and inject our needs and desires into a plan thats still in a conceptual planning phase, instead of meddling with one that's basically a done deal.

[stephendare]

She wasn't there for that.  Her purpose for being there was to build support for their project, attempting to drive home the point that if they get their plan off the ground, other cities will be able to and one day down the line, we can all connect them.  The project Orlando is working on has been planned for years and is pretty much finalized.  The time for changing/adding routes has long passed.  To this effect, the Amtrak discussion was definately outside of her scope, expertise and reason for being there.

The Orlando plan is certainly not a duplication of Amtrak.  It would serve a different clientele with several additional stations at a much higher frequency for a cheaper ticket price.  As I understand it, the deal Amtrak and Tri-Rail both have with CSX is the same one they want the State to sign.  This revolves around liability, not the type of service.

Now I will say, we do need to be involved right now with Amtrak and the South Florida's discussions about using the FEC line for a connection between Jacksonville and Miami.  That really sounds like something we can piggyback off of and inject our needs and desires into a plan thats still in a conceptual planning phase, instead of meddling with one that's basically a done deal.

What made you feel like they were meddling?

I couldnt get an accurate bead on it since as soon as they started talking they got yelled at.

[thelakelander]

Since the meeting was timed and there were a lot of things on the agenda that we still had not covered, it was best to keep moving forward with the topic at hand.  Meddling was probably not the best choice of words.  I guess the problem was she was the wrong person to direct those questions too.

The Orlando representative was giving a general overview of their system, which they plan to break ground within a year, along with their transit oriented development planning around their stations and then we got off track by talking about Amtrak and possible connections to Gainesville, with the expectation that she could or would answer those questions.

There's a time and place for everything, and last Thursday was probably not the best time, especially since no one was there to represent Amtrak and the topic was about local commuter rail.

Btw, we had to spend at least a good 15 minutes or so, discussing Amtrak, but that specific discussion was taking us farther away from getting to the rest of the agenda.

[stephendare]

I guess we will never know.

Until its too late or really expensive.

Seriously lake.  You gotta watch the old guys.

[thelakelander]

I know.  We just have to get the old guys in on a few meetings where Amtrak can be the main topic.