Plans for new Greyhound station hit a roadblock

[thelakelander]

Evidently, Greyhound doesn't want to move to an isolated site by themselves.

Plans to construct a long-awaited $6 million bus terminal for Greyhound near the Prime Osborn Convention Center appear to have hit a roadblock.

State Transportation Department officials say they are ready to release federal money that would fully finance the project, but they are waiting for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority and Greyhound to complete negotiations on the project.

Those talks appear to have hit a snag.

And now, it appears JTA and Greyhound no longer see eye-to-eye.

In a statement, a Greyhound spokeswoman said the company will move into the new terminal only after construction is complete on it as well as an adjacent “multimodal facility” that JTA officials had originally envisioned to be a major transportation hub.

But JTA dropped immediate efforts to build that hub — estimated to cost $180 million — in 2011 after Mayor Alvin Brown and other city officials wanted more time to review the idea and expressed concern about aspects of the project.

“The multimodal facility is a primary and very important part of this project and Greyhound will plan its move to the new terminal around the completion of the multimodal facility,” said Lanesha Gipson, a Greyhound spokeswoman. “We do not plan to move into the terminal prior to its completion since interacting with other modes of transportation would provide customers with a seamless, more convenient travel experience.”

full article: http://members.jacksonville.com/business/2014-01-12/story/plans-new-greyhound-station-hit-roadblock

[thelakelander]

Can't say I blame Greyhound for not wanting to be on an isolated piece of dirt when they have a pretty prime location now.

It will be a while (perhaps never) before JTA can get close to funding the $180 million JRTC. Maybe it's time for JTA to consider a cheaper and more compact transportation center. The Skyway and Megabus already stop in the area and the Skyway station parking lot could easily be converted to accommodate local buses and BRT. That leaves bringing Amtrak back as the major expense.  With that said, the Greyhound site would still be two blocks north. Preliminary site work started or not, it still makes since to get Greyhound a little closer to the rest of the modes and leave out the dream of a new office building as an early phase.

[mtraininjax]

Where is Mayor Alvin Brown in all of this? He is the master of Public/Private partnerships, and this is great for downtown. So what is his story, or have all the TV cameras gone elsewhere?

Good update Lake!

Is it possible for the city to use Eminent Domain on this parcel? Greyhound is leasing the land back in the form of taxes anyway. So just go out and take it.

[edjax]

One of the things I noticed is that JTA still wants to hold greyhound to building despite JTA not moving forward. Does JTA not see the importance of Greyhound being located close to other modes of transportation? If not, do not believe this reflects well of the new head of JTA. More silos.

[mtraininjax]

Does JTA not see the importance of Greyhound being located close to other modes of transportation?

Obviously the Mayor has not done anything to help move the project along, I have not seen a TV camera on him with a bus behind him. So much for leadership.

I would not lay this at the foot of the new JTA leader, he is doing some cool things like the PCT Riverside/Avondale trolley, but this whole concept of a transit center is a Blaylock holdover issue, kinda like David Caldwell and Gus being stuck with Blaine Gabbert as your franchise QB from previous GMs.

[Charles Hunter]

But the new leaders at JTA could change those "legacy" plans.
I seem to remember that "getting that bus station out of there" was part of the deal to bring Everbank downtown.  What happens if the Greyhound move is delayed ... indefinitely?

[edjax]

^^ But is not holding Greyhound to moving forward regardless not in the new leaders responsibility?

[Tacachale]

Sure makes you wish we had competent leaders....

[urbanlibertarian]

If the huge intermodal/office center isn't built as envisioned (and it shouldn't be) then the new Greyhound station would be in a bad location and Greyhound is right to push back.

[thelakelander]

^I agree. Greyhound would be pretty foolish to place their business at that isolated location without some realistic assurances that the rest of the center will be built in our lifetimes. Who wants to take a bus, only to be dropped off with luggage, a mile from the heart of DT or any activity of life?  Yeah, the Skyway is two blocks south of the site but it's not exactly reliable since it doesn't run on weekends.

[thelakelander]

Maybe one of you guys could explain it to me but I don't understand why this JRTC issue has taken a decade to figure out.  The plan is below is waaaayyyyy to big and expensive for what we truly need.



Why not go affordable and implement incrementally by working with what's already in place? 



1. Skyway Station - Already in place

2. JTA Bus Bays - 4 bays already exist next to Skyway. Retrofit remaining block to accommodate bays and waiting area. If you want it to look "cool", pull a page out of Detroit's book and put a canopy or something over it.


Detroit's Rosa Parks Transit Center
http://www.detroityes.com/webisodes/2012/rosa-parks-600-IMG_9709.jpg

3. BRT - A BRT station is nothing more than a glorified bus shelter. That's not a real hold up....you just need a BRT line to actually stop there.

4. Parking Garage - Get real, the last thing this site or downtown needs is more parking. We can start this development off with no garage by utilizing the existing half empty parking lots between Houston and Forsyth. In other words, no garage is needed until there's some bonafide TOD and density to justify it.

5. Amtrak - Getting Amtrak back is the major expense here. Yet COJ owns the old terminal.  Find a way to carve out some interior space for a make-shift Amtrak station to save some initial construction costs. You can always expand down the line as the need arises and more money is secured.

6. Greyhound - As you can see in the aerial above, this Greyhound site is somewhat isolated. Consider moving it to one of the other five empty blocks that happen to be across the street from the existing Skyway station.

7. JTA Office Building - Push this self-glorifying edifice to a 2nd or 3rd phase. It actually may make some sense as a part of TOD surrounding a more compact JRTC.

8. Retail - the current plan shows several single retail buildings around Forsyth. Consider a compact transit center with street level retail featured in multi-level TOD that could surround it. Sort of like the Central Station project being built next to Sunrail's station in Downtown Orlando.


Central Station - Orlando. Commuter rail platform fence is the fence on the left.
http://bungalower.com/2013/10/work-begins-on-central-station-a-new-transit-oriented-development-next-to-lynx-sunrail/

The end result of going incrementally, is you'll save a ton of money, you can move forward immediately, leverage adjacent land for revenue producing TOD and you'll probably realize you can live without many of the bloated features that result in the JRTC costing $180 million.

[spuwho]

Sounds like Greyhound knows their Jacksonville politics.

They can see JTA building the bus area and not the hub and they would be stuck in their personal bus shack in LaVilla while their prime location in the city turns into a demolished, weed choked lot with just a foundation and daily paid parking on top.

They are smart to call JTA out on it.

Time for a rethink. JTA made a fetch for the funds before they had everyone ready for dinner at the table. Oops.

[Tacachale]

Honestly they'd be pretty foolish to support moving out to that isolated space when the city hasn't given an indication it's seriously working on the transit center project.

[Jaxson]

I have an idea.  Take the money that is slated to widen the Fuller Warren Bridge and use it toward building an inter-modal transit center!

[JeffreyS]

The nice thing about Greyhound balking is that portion of the whole JTA project is on the parameter and has the most potential for improving the layout.