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Author Topic: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!  (Read 2925 times)

Cheshire Cat

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Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« on: July 23, 2013, 08:32:29 PM »
The City Council voted Mayor Browns pension deal "Down" tonight by a vote of 11 against and 7 for.  We now revert to the old deal with 17 years left and the three associated lawsuits  remain in place.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,19075.msg338421/topicseen.html#new
Diane Melendez

tufsu1

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 09:10:23 PM »
and they also voted for a property tax increase

edjax

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 09:16:17 PM »
Wise decision on both.

Tacachale

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 10:57:42 AM »
Quote
Jacksonville City Council rejects mayor's plan on pensions, leaves open property tax increase
Mayor Alvin Brown's proposal is viewed as shortsighted.

Jacksonville’s City Council rejected the pension legislation Mayor Alvin Brown had championed Tuesday, and left open the door to setting a substantially higher property tax rate.

The choices represented huge blows to Brown, who had trumpeted his pension deal as a tool to save the city $1.2 billion over 30 years and had stressed his pride at not raising taxes.

Brown’s office minimized the loss.

“This is a minor setback,” said Chris Hand, the mayor’s chief of staff, who said Brown would keep working to address the problems the city faces. “His conscience is clear.”


From Steve Patterson at jacksonville.com

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-07-23/story/jacksonville-city-council-rejects-mayors-plan-pensions-leaves-open#ixzz2ZyWIDngt
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 12:07:34 PM »
Quote
Jacksonville City Council rejects mayor's plan on pensions, leaves open property tax increase
Mayor Alvin Brown's proposal is viewed as shortsighted.

Jacksonville’s City Council rejected the pension legislation Mayor Alvin Brown had championed Tuesday, and left open the door to setting a substantially higher property tax rate.

The choices represented huge blows to Brown, who had trumpeted his pension deal as a tool to save the city $1.2 billion over 30 years and had stressed his pride at not raising taxes.

Brown’s office minimized the loss.

“This is a minor setback,” said Chris Hand, the mayor’s chief of staff, who said Brown would keep working to address the problems the city faces. “His conscience is clear.”


From Steve Patterson at jacksonville.com

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-07-23/story/jacksonville-city-council-rejects-mayors-plan-pensions-leaves-open#ixzz2ZyWIDngt

No big deal?  Not quite.  This was supposed to be Brown's crowning achievement while in office.  It is the single most important financial issue facing the city now and in the future.  No big deal indeed!
Diane Melendez

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 12:09:32 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand. 
Diane Melendez

John P

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 12:25:12 PM »
Please dont tell me this is going to be a long pissing match. What is the next step?

stephendare

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 12:36:00 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand.

Diane, you normally do such a great job with research.  Could you show why this is true?
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edjax

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 12:43:46 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand.

But I would stay this is better than running backwards as we have been doing the past several years with continuous tax cuts just to get elected or reelected. 

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 05:29:06 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand.

Diane, you normally do such a great job with research.  Could you show why this is true?
Actually Stephen, this was openly discussed during last nights council meeting repeatedly by council members and the city auditor. Nothing to research here, this was live discussion last night.   They said over and over again that the vote for property tax increase was to shore up the budget if needed should they voted down the pension deal. They set the potential tax raise at a number that will just meet the budget hole if they can't find more money. There is not overage in that property tax amount what-so-ever to do more than keep us where we are.  As it turned out they did vote down the pension deal and will now likely use the property tax hike to fill the gaping void.  Now they claim they will look for additional funding but the where and how remains unknown.  All that happened last night was purely to keep the status quo.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 05:33:03 PM by Cheshire Cat »
Diane Melendez

Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 05:31:24 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand.

But I would stay this is better than running backwards as we have been doing the past several years with continuous tax cuts just to get elected or reelected. 
Not much better.  We still have the same dadgum problems to deal with.  Pension remains unresolved with us in debt to the tune of 1.7 Billion for pension payouts and you can bet your sweet bippy, we will be short next budget go round as well by millions of dollars. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 05:34:07 PM by Cheshire Cat »
Diane Melendez

stephendare

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 05:33:53 PM »
Wise decision on both.
Everyone needs to keep one thing in mind.  The property tax rate increase is "tentative" and if put forward will not make things better for Jacksonville but is rather a stop gap measure to cover this years budget shortfalls.  We are running in place folks or perhaps I should say running in quicksand.

Diane, you normally do such a great job with research.  Could you show why this is true?
Actually Stephen, this was openly discussed during last nights council meeting repeatedly by council members and the city auditor. Nothing to research here, this was live discussion last night.   They said over and over again that the vote for property tax increase was to shore up the budget if indeed they voted down the pension deal. They set the potential tax raise at a number that will just meet the budget hole if they can't find more money. There is not overage in that property tax amount what-so-ever to do more than keep us where we are.  As it turned out they did vote down the pension deal and will now likely use the property tax hike to fill the gaping void.  Now they claim they will look for additional funding but the where and how remains unknown.  All that happened last night was purely to keep the status quo.

I missed the meeting last night,unfortunately.  Do you remember who was saying this?
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 05:36:35 PM »
Kirk Sherman, the city auditor himself when asked repeatedly by various council members what the property tax increase would mean for next years budget.  He told them the tentative tax increase would just meet the hole in the budget left when the pension deal was voted down.  Some of the council members in the discussion were Lee, Crescimbini, Boyer and others.  You not trust me to give the facts anymore Stephen?   lol  You know I watch this stuff like a hawk and believe you me, the mess last night was not easy to follow.

 
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stephendare

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 05:42:57 PM »
Kirk Sherman, the city auditor himself when asked repeatedly by various council members what the property tax increase would mean for next years budget.  He told them the tentative tax increase would just meet the hole in the budget left when the pension deal was voted down.  Some of the council members in the discussion were Lee, Crescimbini, Boyer and others.  You not trust me to give the facts anymore Stephen?   lol  You know I watch this stuff like a hawk and believe you me, the mess last night was not easy to follow.

 

Quite the contrary!  I asked for the express reason that I knew you would remember.  The other media does a terrible job of detailing the thought processes of the council as a body.

I wouldnt have asked otherwise.  If you check back on our other live blogs, we usually include who is asking what throughout.  Great job of covering the event!
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: Council Votes "NO" on Mayor's Pension deal!
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 05:50:00 PM »
I was just "messin wif ya" Stephen. :)  I really wish you had been able to blog last night.  There was just so much that needed to be said with your humorous twist on things.  lol  I can honestly say that last evenings council meeting was in it's own right both shocking and disheartening.  I think the secret hope that I held was that this council might serve as a buffer to an inexperienced administration.   Sadly that does not appear to be the case.  Lori Boyer as usual had researched well on her own prior to this meeting and made a good deal of sense, until she let herself get tied up in some thoughts from her review of consolidation and an attempt to tie last nights issues into a dated consolidation plan.  That worried me a bit.  It was also a bit humorous to hear Denise Lee state that since she is being termed out and could not run for office again that she could now speak honestly to the people about property taxes.  Really?  She can be honest if she is not looking to run for office again?  Kind of telling everyone that she wasn't honest before.  The council was in rare form to be sure.
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