Author Topic: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future  (Read 19802 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« on: April 30, 2013, 03:01:54 AM »
Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future



Joshua Taylor of Metrojacksonville discusses the importance of transportation planning in the redevelopment of Riverside Avenue in J'villes Brooklyn District. Filmed in Partnership with News4Jax.  Join us after the jump for what is sure to be a hotly debated topic.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-jvilles-brooklyn-renaissance-planning-for-the-future

sheclown

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 06:23:58 AM »
Great Job Josh. 


Noone

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 07:46:06 AM »
Very nice Josh. I love how the river is center to most of these projects. Cummer, YMCA, heck the picture of the Main St. bridge. How would you like to kayak Downtown and we can put in at Sydney Geffen Park that still needs a Mayor Brown kayak logo and in a future report of yours you can make the statement. " Joshua Taylor for Metrojacksonville.com reporting from the river and why we are Downtown and your not."

aaapolito

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2013, 08:43:41 AM »
Excellent thoughts.  We can only hope that this type of exposure will catch the attention of those in charge of creating a plan for transit in Brooklyn.

tufsu1

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2013, 09:10:41 AM »
I don't think the new developments in Brooklyn will in any way lead to gridlock....keep in mind that Riverside Avenue was recently widened to 6 lanes and a new I-95 interchange built at Forrest Street.

tufsu1

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2013, 10:44:02 AM »
and wasn't Riverside Avenue 2 lanes at the time?  A 6-lane road has much more capacity

cline

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2013, 10:50:28 AM »
The newly widened roadway is much, much different than it was back in the day.  It functions much better now than it used to.

fsujax

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2013, 10:59:55 AM »
I agree those neighbors should be speaking up about these issues and seriously consider mass transit improvements vs. adding more parking or additional capacity on roads.

cline

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2013, 11:02:27 AM »
I personally think this is a miraculous change for the area, but I do think that it is seriously time that Riverside Avondale lead the rest of the city in implementing a legitimate mass transit system.

You'll get no argument from me on that.  I think that extending the Skyway to the new developments in Brooklyn is a no-brainer.  I was just pointing at that traffic on the road is better than it was back in the day.  That being said, these new developments will obviously add more traffic to the area.  Providing a transit option that would directly service these new residents would help to keep some of these vehicles off the road.

Tacachale

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2013, 11:18:04 AM »
The current setup of Riverside Ave should serve sufficiently for a long time. Public transit was always supposed to be part of the picture. As Brooklyn starts to come back it's high time that piece is finally included.
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thelakelander

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2013, 11:18:24 AM »
No, these developments won't lead to vehicular gridlock in area.  The main thing about the Skyway and mass transit that is being overlooked in the Brooklyn discussion the economic development component and its relationship with the overall strategy to bring vibrancy back to downtown.  We're never going to have a truly vibrant pedestrian scale downtown district if we continue to ignore the impact of mass transit connectivity between urban neighborhoods. 

For example, when these Brooklyn developments are completed, they will become isolated zones of pedestrian scale activity.  They have their own residential base, commercial components, parks and thousands of office workers literally across the street.  However, that neighborhood alone, won't be large enough to keep its commercial uses (ex. restaurants, grocery store, pharmacy, etc.) open.  Their actual market will also rely on the residential and workforce population from surrounding areas like the North and Southbank.  Skyway connectivity, actually allows people to live in various subdistricts of downtown and have direct access to Brooklyn's commercial infill without the need to get in a car and drive the extra mile. 

For Brooklyn, Skyway connectivity allows its residents to have direct access to cultural attractions, nightlife, employment centers, businesses, etc. in the Northbank and Southbank, without the need of driving.  Ignoring mass transit connectivity with Brooklyn's developments pretty much means we're content on having new infill in Brooklyn compete with the rest of downtown as it's own isolated spot of urban activity.  It also means, we're perfectly content with them not helping one another work together to advance the concept of urban livability in the core.

This doesn't make a lot of sense and is quite the opposite of the goal to revitalize downtown.  Heck, having to drive to the grocery, despite staying in some location like the Carling or Strand is the exact opposite of why people are generally attracted to urban living in the first place.
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simms3

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 11:48:15 AM »
People think that a few hundred units in this area may create a traffic issue?  I know this sort of infill is a "new experience" for Jacksonville, woooo, but there are neighboring cities that have done this on much larger scale and dealt with whatever traffic issues may or may not have been created.  I say...no traffic issues will result.  This is still very small scale development and as Jax grows, people just need to suck it up and get used to more traffic...wherever.  Brooklyn will always be devoid of cars except during rush hour.  A Fresh Market won't even change that (we're talking 6 lanes here people!)
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thelakelander

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 12:08:24 PM »
I agree with you on every point except for your first, and there I think, history and I both disagree with it ;).

Those "sharrows" are going to look mighty dispensable as that area gets up and running.  Especially around the bend on Riverside.

But aside from the obvious traffic dispersal, benefits, connectivity is in itself a thing to be pursued!

Riverside and Avondale would be so very well served by establishing and pursuing a walkable, connective neighborhood policy built around the transit basis upon which it was originally designed.

Simms3 is right. History doesn't agree with you either. Nevertheless, reality says your disagreement isn't enough to overturn the influence of public policy and transportation planning models on public transportation funding. You'll never see a streetcar or Skyway extension locally if you're going to use solving roadway congestion as your main argument for their investment.  The Wendell Cox guys of the industry will eat you alive.  Quite frankly, mass transit isn't going to have a significant impact on roadway congestion if you keep allowing auto oriented uses in other areas.  This argument is just as valid as JTA claiming BRT will be just like LRT but on rubber wheels.

A Skyway to Brooklyn doesn't relieve congestion (there is no congestion right now to warrant roadway expansion...I can provide you with all the technical numbers you need) on Park or Riverside because the majority of your auto trips aren't originating in Brooklyn and those 600 units aren't going to really change the number of commutes originating from places like Orange Park, Argyle, Cedar Hills, Lake Shore, etc.

What we've seen over the last couple of decades is smaller communities like Jacksonville, Milwaukee, Salt Lake City, etc. aren't investing in short distance urban circulators (like streetcars or the Skyway) to alleviate arterial roadway congestion.  They are making the financial investment because of other reasons, such as stimulating infill economic development activity, quality-of-life enhancements, health planning, financial sustainability, offering residents multimodal choice, etc.  These places are setting themselves up to offer an environment where their residents have the freedom of choice to safely and efficiently get around their community without being forced to use a car.  Long term, there's massive money to be made in terms of tax dollars saved, jobs created, new millennial/retiring baby boomer-based economic development, tax rolls increased via higher infill density, etc. by becoming multimodal friendly urban settings.

As far as the sharrows thing, that's as simple as doing a lane diet on a roadway such as Park, to provide dedicated lane width for the bike mode.  This is something that should be mandatory regardless of traffic congestion on major roadways.  Hopefully, Councilwoman Boyer's context sensitive streets policy work will take care of this city-wide.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 12:27:59 PM »
I'm not all that old but I do remember when traffic was worse on Riverside than it is today. Since the widening the traffic has been much better and it's unlikely a few hundred new people and a grocery store is going to return it to its former condition. Of course there will be more traffic, but the current setup should do for a long long time. As others have said the purpose of adding transit options shouldn't be just to reduce traffic.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 12:35:34 PM »
Both Park Street and Riverside Avenue were gridlocked hells for that hour or so every night after work.

And Im not understanding what you are saying Lake.

Are you championing the idea that transit and bike lanes will not alleviate the vehicular traffic flow during peak hours?

^Yes. The majority of peak hour traffic on those streets isn't originating in the neighborhoods they directly impact.  Sort of like I-95 has a direct negative impact on Sugar Hill and LaVilla but the majority of the highway's users live outside those neighborhoods. Things like bike lanes, better sidewalks, etc. will help with neighborhood livability and bike/ped safety but they aren't going to take the Cedar Hills guy driving his SUV off Park Street.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali