Author Topic: Councilman Clark to sponsor new 3-year Mobility Plan fee moratorium legislation  (Read 29278 times)

Debbie Thompson

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I think it passed with the finance amendment, but not the floor amendment.  CM Brown said he would withdraw the floor amendment and go with the finance amendment if that would help.

Dog Walker

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Re: Councilman Clark Wants Mobility Fee Moratorium
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2013, 04:51:25 PM »
Councilman Jim Love will vote against the moratorium.
When all else fails hug the dog.

If_I_Loved_you

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Re: Councilman Clark Wants Mobility Fee Moratorium
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2013, 05:15:19 PM »
Councilman Jim Love will vote against the moratorium.
Good  :D

sheclown

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http://www.news4jax.com/news/Bicyclists-upset-about-plan-to-stop-mobility-fee/-/475880/18534722/-/format/rss_2.0/-/n2c0d3/-/index.html

The moratorium would spur development downtown?


Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -

A plan to stop collecting a fee has some local bicyclists crying foul.

At Tuesday night's City Council meeting, a bill was introduced that would allow developers to stop paying a special fee for bike lanes and other projects.

Bicyclists parked their bikes in front of City Hall during the meeting in an effort to show council members how important they say funding alternative transportation is.

To spur more development, the city is not requiring builders to pay the special fee, and the plan is to extend that for three more years.

Debbie Thompson

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Well, technically, he didn't say downtown.  LOL  And a moratorium certainly helps the kind of development we don't need...more gas guzzling, strip mall wasteland, suburban sprawl on every empty plot of land in the county.  Instead of common sense infill and public transit projects in central Jacksonville, where they are needed.  If you build it, they will come.  :-)

"He has said in the past the reason for this is to spur development."

tufsu1

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http://www.news4jax.com/news/Bicyclists-upset-about-plan-to-stop-mobility-fee/-/475880/18534722/-/format/rss_2.0/-/n2c0d3/-/index.html

The moratorium would spur development downtown?


This piece makes it sound like the fee is to pay for bike lanes and other alternative transportation….that won’t garner overwhelming public support….explaining it as a fee to mitigate impacts caused by new development, on the other hand, would.

Debbie Thompson

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There was huge turnout by the bike clubs, which was GREAT, but which of course focused on bike and pedestrian issues.  In my comments, I mentioned public transit, light rail and bus lines.  But if we want to get a more diverse message across, then we have to have a more diverse turnout of people, with more diverse comments.

I will also add that by the time the first general public comments session came up, it was almost 7:30, and 2-1/2 hours into the city council meeting.  So some of the people who intended to speak about other aspects perhaps had to leave. 

I believe it will be in committee, so try to attend committee meetings if you can.  If you can't, email the city council with diverse comments.  At the meeting on 2/26, I believe it will be a reading of the bill, and if I'm not mistaken, public comments will be permitted specifically on the bill.  What you say at council meetings gets read into the record. 

I love that the bike clubs turned out in full force, but I do agree we need others who can speak on different various aspects of the 2030 Mobility Plan and fee to come out next time too.  That said, had the bike clubs not turned out and hung in there until public comments, there would not have been as many speaking against the moratorium as there was.  So let's not knock it.  Just show up with more diverse comments going forward.  :-)

dougskiles

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DIA is going to have a special meeting to discuss the moratorium and decide whether or not to express an opinion.  It will likely be mid-next week.

You can read about some of the discussion in Ashley Kritzer's business journal blog:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/02/13/mobility-fee-moratorium-could-hurt.html

Jumpinjack

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Right you are. Also, our mobility plan is not just for the urban core folks. It is for each part of Jacksonville with goals proposed  by the community residents themselves. If we only make it about one part of town, we risk losing Council members who could care less about our urban centers.
It's also about long-term money savings for a city which has been forced to provide more and more services, infrastructure, schools, police etc, further and further away from existing services and infrastructure. 

Ocklawaha

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Just posted to the Jacksonville Business Journal, the following excerpted story.

Quote
The South Florida Experience:

Research doesn’t support the claim waiving impact fees spurs construction and the economy, Cape Coral Mayor John Sullivan and Councilman Chris Chulakes-Leetz said.

As for the city’s 2011 attempt to attract businesses by temporarily suspending road impact fees for businesses moving into existing buildings, Sullivan said it was a bust.

“We got one business in,” Sullivan said. “Everybody didn’t break their back to get in here because of that.”.

Smelling blood:

Should Lee County, suspend fees Tuesday, Commissioner Frank Mann said he suspects construction industry lobbyists will turn to city officials for the same.

“I would say, almost certainly, the building industry would believe they’re smelling blood and they would push it as hard as they could,” Mann said.

Mann said impact fees place burden for building new roads, parks and schools where it belongs: new residents and new businesses.

County officials estimate losing $10.4 million for new roads, schools, parks and emergency services, if a suspension lasts two years. That's $10.5 million which will have to come from the taxpayers pocket while giving big business a free ride.

In Tallahassee, lawmakers are considering a statewide moratorium on impact fees that would last for three years. The bill also would stop a majority from instituting a mobility fee. Lee County's Local Planning Agency and Sustainability Committee recommended examining mobility fees as a means to replace road impact fess.

Mobility fees would let commissioners expedite project approvals in urban areas that have public amenities by putting a lower price tag on them, while builders who want to erect structures in rural areas with few amenities would pay higher rates.

The mobility charges also give officials spending leeway, allowing them to build bicycle lanes and sidewalks, fixed-route mass transit or buy buses. Road impact fees must be spent on adding or expanding roads.

Without impact fees, the quality of life for Lee County residents enjoy will decline, Mann said. “Schools are going to suffer, roads will suffer. You can’t do this without really hurting our infrastructure needs.”.

Pendergrass, however, said the argument a two-year moratorium would put the county at disadvantage is false. Road projects, he noted, are largely funded with gas taxes. Some of the planned projects also call for property taxes, according to county documents.

“Next year you’re going to take enough impact fees to build one mile of road,” he said. “They’re using that to scare people and the bad thing is they’re putting it out there and people are believing it.”.

Leonardo, however, predicts impact fees will remain in place. “My guess is the county will not discontinue them.”.

SOURCE: http://www.news-press.com/article/20130210/NEWS01/302100045


thelakelander

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^Great talking points and quotes in the Lee County story.  Thanks for posting.  Btw, it's amazing reading political leader's quotes about what impact fees and mobility fees won't fund.  I guess, when it's not your personal $10.4 million being spent, it's okay to give it to the developer to put in his pocket. $10.4 million may buy you one mile of a highway, but it can get you a lot when you start looking at different mobility needs. Here's what $10.4 million will get you:

- 41 miles of new 12' wide multi-use paths. Ever wonder what that would do in terms of improving bike/ped death rates, Sherlock?

- 86 miles of new 5' wide sidewalks. That's more than enough to connect pedestrians with those isolated handicapped bus pads being built on Philips that every transportation related agency around here couldn't find the dollars to do.

- 13 miles of milling and resurfacing 4-lane undivided urban core arterials into 3-lane context sensitive streets with new bicycle lanes added.

As for Councilman Gulliford's comments the other night about what $3 million can't do for Jax, this is what it can deliver:

- 12 miles of new 12' wide multi-use paths where sufficient ROW already exists. Southside Boulevard anyone?

- 25 miles of new 5' wide sidewalks on streets that currently lack this type of infrastructure. I heard Philips and Baymeadows could use a few.

- 3.61 miles of milling and resurfacing streets to make them context sensitive. Edgewood Avenue (Murray Hill), Kings Road (New Town/Durkeeville), Park Street (Brooklyn), perhaps?

IMO, that alone can significantly improve mobility in our city and that's funds lost in one year of a recession.  Imagine the type of money we'll be burning with Clark's 3-year moratorium and what it could have been used for.  I still can't believe we have a council willing to possibly approve a money losing subsidy like this without basing their decisions on the easily accessible hard statistical data out there. When you start looking at real numbers and statistics, it's amazing what you could possibly accomplish with the "insignificant" amount of money Clark desires taxpayers to give way.  Btw, I haven't even gotten into the real world of what $3 million could leverage the city in terms of various matching grants, health and livability programs available out there.

Feel free to question my numbers and do a few general estimates yourself.  Here's a link to FDOT's January 2013 general transportation cost estimates/mile: ftp://ftp.dot.state.fl.us/LTS/CO/Estimates/CPM/summary.pdf
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 01:35:54 PM by thelakelander »
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tufsu1

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great data Lake!

Ocklawaha

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The stellar moment of the Council meeting was made in response to a Bike Jax(?) gentleman who pointed out our terrible bike and pedestrian infrastructure and the fact that we missed out on $3,000,000 worth of improvements that could have been collected in Mobility Fees.

Jacksonville City Councilman Bill Gulliford, with Bill Bishop apparently nodding in approval questioned if we could really do anything with just $3 Million. "$3 Million isn't enough to do any of the infrastructure improvements your talking about, so it really isn't going to make much difference. You'll have to add many times that amount and you are going to have to find it someplace else, in property taxes, license fees, sales tax... Somewhere."

So using that as a baseline here is what could be done with $3 Million:

12.5 miles of new 12' wide, grade separated, bike trail, more then enough to build a new trail system from:
San Marco to St. Johns Town Center
or from:
Riverside to Orange Park Mall
or from:
Downtown (Rosa Parks)  to the Jacksonville-Baldwin Rail Trail head at Imeson Road, via - Hogan/Water/Park/Post/Normandy/Lane/Commonwealth/Imeson
or from:
Maxwell House through Springfield to Gateway Mall via "The Electric 7 Streetcar Route" and on to JIA via Lem Turner Road   (For details about 'The Electric 7 Streetcar' see:  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-aug-the-electric-7-a-streetcar-proposal-on-a-shoestring )

OR
 
That $3 Million could also buy us enough 5' wide x 4" deep sidewalk to stretch from Downtown Jacksonville to St. Augustine.
or from:
The Jacksonville-Baldwin Rail Trail head on Imeson Road to Ponte Vedra Beach via downtown, with enough left over to add the sidewalk on one side of Philips all the way to the St. Johns County Line.

OR

Build a streetcar line using the Kenosha model from Jacksonville Terminal (Prime Osborn) to Bay and Newnan.
or:
Build 'The Electric 7 Streetcar' from Beaver Street through Springfield and East Jacksonville to 8Th Street.

OR

Buy 5 new hybrid-electric buses for downtown transit shuttles
Or even:
Buy 12 standard rear engine, small diesel buses for lighter suburban routes

Mr. Councilman, you were right, you couldn't do hardly anything - in fact you could do a fantastic amount of things. Infrastructure improvements would make a huge contribution toward our growth into the big leagues of world cities.  And everyone should remember that based on national averages, if we spent that $3 Million on streetcar we would see a corresponding $15 Million dollar private investment (new residential, offices, retail, etc) from the private sector.

$3 MILLION INDEED! Just do the right thing and kill this horrible proposal.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 03:59:22 PM by Ocklawaha »

sheclown

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Lake & Ock

Love the concrete examples -- this is what we need.

Ralph W

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If these examples of what a certain amount of money could buy are readily apparent to various experienced planners and freely published without unnecessary public money expenditures for outside consultant studies why do our representatives spout clearly uninformed conclusions. Is there a political agenda that should be nipped in the bud?