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Author Topic: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped  (Read 10440 times)

ChriswUfGator

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2013, 11:17:49 AM »
     As far as imposing a decibel limit, that can not be done without the sound of the show being comprimised. ALL artist contracts include a safe operating decibel level. So to impose that ordinance would cause artist to not play your events.

huh?

Seems clear enough to me. The T&C riders on most major artists' contracts require a certain sound setup, if you can't deliver that, including what they consider to be acceptable amplification, then the artist generally won't sign. It's that simple. What performer wants to show up and have to yell over a crowd? It's a concert with thousands of people in a crowd, it's not a freestyle poetry reading.


tufsu1

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2013, 11:47:23 AM »
so the "safe operating decibel level" referred to is a minimum?

SoundGuy

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2013, 12:07:33 PM »
so the "safe operating decibel level" referred to is a minimum?

That is correct, this is usually based off of not wanting to cause permanent hearing loss to you fans. 

tufsu1

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2013, 01:28:40 PM »
so it isn't a minimum...but instead a maximum?

if that's the case, then reaching a compromise should be pretty easy.

SoundGuy

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2013, 04:45:35 PM »
The Metro Park bill is about the noise. The decibel level, the length of the concerts etc. If someone has a suggestion to reduce the noise level for the Southbank residents at a reasonable cost I would love to hear it. What is an acceptable decibel level for those who must go to work early the next morning? How loud is too loud while you are in your own home even in the afternoon? Some have children that attend school on Monday morning. I imagine you will hear from the supporters at the public hearing because they are the ones who have to live with it.This has been an issue for a long time and to date no reasonable solutions have been identified.

I am certain that if you had a country event in the park, most of the complaintants would be outside barbecuing and enjoying the free show.

I doubt that. Most of the complainants are probably people who live across the water from the Park and who are actually impacted by the noise. We may not agree with Redman's attempts to stop concerts in the Park (I think it's ludicrous), but that doesn't mean the people living across the water aren't actually impacted by the noise. Whether or not their complaints are reasonable is another issue. I think they may be reasonable, or more accurately, I cannot answer one way or another, as I do not live in their houses and don't have to deal with it myself - it wouldn't be fair of me to dismiss the concern out of hand.

The better solution would be to find a workable compromise. A curfew for concerts at the Park might work as well as perhaps some sort of rule regarding decibel levels - as suggested - might help. I don't agree with your contention that it would have to cover Jaguars games as well, as there is no reason to believe that a rule or ordinance couldn't be drafted in a way that would allow for exceptions or have specific language targeting a particular venue. But I'm not a lawyer.

Ideally we should have a fit-for-purpose amphitheater in the Park. But that seems even further away now in light of this present complaint.

Actually, I found out today that there is a particular church that made a complaint due to hearing offensive language at about 6pm, which happen to be around the same time their service started. The main complaint from a homeowner is coming from a woman that bought a house right on the river in 2004. She is the same one that started putting together meetings at Havana Jax. The complaint from her was more about being outside and hearing it, not from inside the home. I know someone who lives on the river near BK, who has double pane windows in his house, says that he can hear Jags game announcers better than the concerts, depending on the wind. I am sure that an ordinance could be drafted with the proper language for the stadium to not have to abide by laws set for everyone else, but then you end up with a whole different legal matter on your hands.
 
      I agree that the construction of a venue that would curb the sound issue would be nice, but I am pretty sure that the city is broke after the courthouse debacle. Besides, just like when budget cuts to schools occur, the first thing to go is music and arts programs because they don't make the school any money, just do the math on SMG's parking lots alone.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2013, 06:51:50 PM »
If you are sitting in a boat or in St. Nicholas, a sound coming from the north shore will sound louder than the same sound heard by a person on land. Sound can be amplified when it travels over water.

The reason is that the water cools the air above its surface, which then slows down the sound waves near the surface. This causes refraction or bending of the sound wave, such that more sound reaches the boat passenger or St Nicholas resident. Sound waves skimming the surface of the water can add to the amplification effect, if the water is calm.

The speed of sound is the distance travelled during a unit of time by a sound wave propagating through an elastic medium. In dry air at 68 °F, the speed of sound is 1,126 ft/s. This is 768 mph, or approximately one mile in five seconds.

However, the speed of sound varies from substance to substance. Sound travels faster in liquids and non-porous solids than it does in air. It travels about 4.3 times as fast in water 4868.766 f/s, and nearly 15 times as fast in iron 16,797.9 f/s than in air at 68F degrees.

Just hold the concerts on wet windy days when the water is at a chop and you'll have no complaints.

Noone

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #96 on: January 15, 2013, 02:07:17 AM »
As Noone says we need to let the legislative process take its course.


Withdraw the legislation. Every news media outlet should be contacting Ben Warner, Mayor Brown, Alan Verlander, and it should be one of the top discussions for 2025. We now have an expanded Entertainment Zone. When and where was the neighborhood meeting?

The legislative process should not be used as a legislative tool to destroy the Public Trust in the circumventing a bigger hidden agenda by our elected legislative representatives.

Was at city Hall and the Rules Committee was finishing grabbed an agenda and within in an hour was standing on the sandy beach of Palmer Terrace Park Dist. 4 across from Metro Park that still needs a Mayor Brown Kayak launch logo. It was a high tide and people were fishing at Holmesdale Ave. Can we put a table and chair from Hemming Plaza  that you are removing and relocate them at Holmesdale Ave. and Palmer Terrace Park? Is there a relocation plan for all this equipment or is it going to be ripped out and taken to the scrap yard? let's handle one disaster at a time before creating a new one. The manipulation of FIND grant money is another example that comes to mind. Can you share one bid price for the slab of concrete for the new clock?

You come on these forums which is good and you see everyone especially when it gets around to election time and then completely ignore the questions on the same forums that you search out to get your emergency legislation passed.




heatherlfdx

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2013, 02:23:13 AM »
http://www.causes.com/causes/810291-no-more-concerts-at-met-park-please-don-t-ignore/about
unfortunately the facebook causes.com app has just caused me a world of spamming, emailing, and phishing. all 299 people on my friends list were messaged with an invite to a cause i had not even read yet the second i clicked on the link to read about it. took 10 damn minutes to block the app, have all the comments deleted, delete 6 emails from causes.com, and remove myself from the website's auto-registration feature.
sooo, assuming this website isn't just a big ol phishing site and its a fault in the fb app, how will this online petition be presented to the city council on jan 22nd before the 5pm hearing?
here is don redman's email address Redman@coj.net. write an intelligent email to him not one of those "hey f__ker you better not if you know whats good for you you suck kiss my lilly white butt" emails.
you may also go to the meeting
Jacksonville City Hall; 117 West Duval Street #425 Jacksonville, FL 32202
IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK AT THIS HEARING: Upon arrival you must fill out a speaker card; you will have three minutes to intelligently articulate why you oppose this bill.

SoundGuy

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2013, 11:47:21 PM »
http://www.causes.com/causes/810291-no-more-concerts-at-met-park-please-don-t-ignore/about
unfortunately the facebook causes.com app has just caused me a world of spamming, emailing, and phishing. all 299 people on my friends list were messaged with an invite to a cause i had not even read yet the second i clicked on the link to read about it. took 10 damn minutes to block the app, have all the comments deleted, delete 6 emails from causes.com, and remove myself from the website's auto-registration feature.
sooo, assuming this website isn't just a big ol phishing site and its a fault in the fb app, how will this online petition be presented to the city council on jan 22nd before the 5pm hearing?
here is don redman's email address Redman@coj.net. write an intelligent email to him not one of those "hey f__ker you better not if you know whats good for you you suck kiss my lilly white butt" emails.
you may also go to the meeting
Jacksonville City Hall; 117 West Duval Street #425 Jacksonville, FL 32202
IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK AT THIS HEARING: Upon arrival you must fill out a speaker card; you will have three minutes to intelligently articulate why you oppose this bill.
I am the one that started the cause and have more hard copy petitions circulating around town. I appologize for the facebook app being a pain in the ass, but it was an excellent way to get the word out quickly. I have had an overwhelming number of responses, so my plan worked.

ramonhernandezjr

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2013, 07:56:47 PM »
I say great! Move all the concerts out to the Cecil Commerce area. There is plenty of room for an outdoor amphitheater. You can build it near the hangers which are far enough away from Cecil Pines.

thelakelander

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2013, 08:26:10 PM »
It was recommended to me today to check the details of the funding of Metropolitan Park during the Godbold era.  Evidently, the city used federal money for the park's construction and that the 12 events are required as a part of accepting federal money.  If we eliminate those events, we could end up having to pay the feds back the money given for it's construction.

Scott A Wilson

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2013, 05:59:04 AM »
It was recommended to me today to check the details of the funding of Metropolitan Park during the Godbold era.  Evidently, the city used federal money for the park's construction and that the 12 events are required as a part of accepting federal money.  If we eliminate those events, we could end up having to pay the feds back the money given for it's construction.
We are working on a solution that will reduce the decibel level.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #102 on: January 18, 2013, 06:23:28 AM »
Scott - are you also considering a reasonable curfew (say 11:00pm), like the St. Augustine Amphitheater has?  As someone said (SoundGuy?) earlier, too stringent limits on decibels could affect the shows themselves.

Scott A Wilson

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #103 on: January 18, 2013, 06:32:28 AM »
Scott - are you also considering a reasonable curfew (say 11:00pm), like the St. Augustine Amphitheater has?  As someone said (SoundGuy?) earlier, too stringent limits on decibels could affect the shows themselves.
Yes, they currently stop at 11pm which I think is a little late on a Sunday night. There are only a couple of events that turn the sound up to a point where the Southbank folks are bothered inside their homes. it becomes a real nuisance when the cloud cover is low. Trying to identify the correct decibel level and base level is difficult because it depends on the weather.

Dog Walker

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #104 on: January 18, 2013, 10:05:55 AM »
The weather has a huge effect on how the sound travels across the river.  Maybe there is some sort of remote decibel monitor that could be mounted on the other side of the river to monitor how the sound is hitting there.

I've seen some outdoor venues in Europe that have multiple, smaller speakers surrounding the area all facing into the audience.  That seemed to give the same audience experience without having to blast the sound from just the stage.  Don't know if that sort of setup would work in this situation though, since the bands travel with their own sound equipment.
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