Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped

[RexMontana]

The next election cannot come too soon. How on Earth did we vote all of these people into office in the first place? We won't need to worry about the noise level much longer, as the Saint Augustine Amphitheatre is attracting all of the musical acts to their venue faster than you can say First Baptist Church. Saint Augustine even passed the human rights ordinance that our dumb City Council failed to pass. All this in the "Bold New City of the South!" Jokesonville continues to be the laughing stock of the entire nation.

[stephendare]

Let's get rid of him now, give Scott his chance already.

^ Thanks for coming on here to seek public comment Scott....just wish this had been done prior to filing the legislation

yes, thanks scott. Its nice to hear from you!

I think people would be more understanding of a change in decibels.

But there has to be a place in the city where "The City" can actually happen.

[Charles Hunter]

A change in decibels, and a cut-off time.

Perhaps Scott is proposing something so absurd that a decibels and curfew will be palatable?  Guess it depends on the author - if Scott, I could see this; if Don, well, the language is what he wants.

[sheclown]

Let's get rid of him now, give Scott his chance already.

^ Thanks for coming on here to seek public comment Scott....just wish this had been done prior to filing the legislation

yes, thanks scott. Its nice to hear from you!

I think people would be more understanding of a change in decibels.

But there has to be a place in the city where "The City" can actually happen.

sounds like a campaign slogan

[Ocklawaha]

Yep, suggest we build a new amphitheater at the corner of Moncrief and Myrtle and there won't  be a chirp in a carload.

[blfair]

maybe we could actually get his name right?  Its Don Redman

and while I disagree with the bill, folks should know that the X102.9 concert in December was quite loud....from my house a mile away from the park, I could clearly sing along with the last band at almost 11pm on a Sunday night.

lots of ampitheaters in the country deal with this issue....Merriweather Post Pavilion in MD has had resterictions put on it and the ampitheater in Tampa lost a lawsuit and had to install noise walls

I was thinking the same thing. I was woken up at 7:30AM by James Brown (sound check/setup I guess), and went to bed right after Bush took the stage.

I'm not really against them using the facility for this, but I think they probably pushed it going so late on a Sunday, and I'm not surprised to see some folks upset enough to try to act on it.

[Dog Walker]

Living in the countryside is no guarantee of quiet either.  Years ago we lived in a rural area near Tampa and frequently had to listen to a dirt track a few miles away with races that went on until two and three in the morning.  You had to shout at one another to be understood INSIDE the house.  Those dirt track cars had no mufflers and were incredibly loud.  I don't know how the people actually at the track could stand it.

[Bill Hoff]

Seems like adjusting the decibel level would do the trick.

[strider]

Noise is everywhere, no getting away from it.  Unless you get out to very remote places and then the crickets can be almost too much to bear.  I was saddened to see that a study was actually done over train whistles.  100K per crossing?  Does anyone realize that in the end, things like that cost everyone of us the money it costs to do it? To change what has been around for literally 100's of years?  Airports often have noise polices.  Are you aware that those policies actually add to your risk during take off and landings? To satisfy the complaints from a few who chose to buy by the airports to start with?  Frankly, I don't like the fact that the fireworks not only cost me personally (my tax dollars) but also cause others to fire their guns to join the fun. Should we ban the fireworks because I complain about it?  Not hardly.  At some point, common sense has to kick in.

From reading this thread, it seems that those that blocked the original amphitheatre may have actually added to the problem.  If we don't have a properly designed amphitheatre, just reducing the decibels may aggravate the issue.  Bad "white noise" can be worse than hearing the music.  Would a properly designed and built amphitheatre not still allow a proper concert experience while allowing the decibel levels to be controlled better?  In other words, would it not be easier to control the sound levels for everyone? 

Adding things like temporary sound walls put up and taken down at every concert seems like a large additional expense that could effectively kill the site for concerts anyway.  A permanent one paid for by us taxpayers kills the park in other ways.  The solution may be to go back to the original idea and rebuild the amphitheatre properly and then everyone wins.  The complaining residents get their reduced noise levels and the concert goers get more concerts.  And perhaps the city gets a better revenue stream.

[Noone]

^ Thanks for coming on here to seek public comment Scott....just wish this had been done prior to filing the legislation

Withdraw the legislation. You did it with Halloween. We continue to just totally crush the Public Trust.  We now have a brand new DIA/CRA in the USA with a 20 plus mile Authority Zone and this now needs to be the number one topic for discussion for the foggy Vision of 2025 at JCCI.

Councilman Redman, Scott, Just share the bid amounts for the slab that needs to be poured for the new clock. Does anyone on Metrojax have any clue as to how many bids have been received for this? I'm serious. This out of control quagmire is happening right now in Waterways. We are so LOST. We are the biggest JOKE in the state of Florida as it relates to FIND.

Scott, Don or Don, Scott you were the Chair of Waterways last year and we left $500,000 of our ad valorem property tax revenue on the table and because of the Backroom stuff that you all are so proud of we now have 2012-402. Share with everyone the status of the Pottsburg Creek dredge. let's hear some NOISE on this one. Good or Bad.

In the meantime. Ben Warner JCCI we now need to kayak Downtown not only before 2025 but at the Super Duper non identified super Mayor Brown kayak access point at Palmer Terrace Park in Dist. 4 which gives everyone immediate and direct access at low and high tide to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.

Is Tony N still in the Pen?

I am Downtown and why you may never be.

[Tacachale]

Noise is everywhere, no getting away from it.  Unless you get out to very remote places and then the crickets can be almost too much to bear.  I was saddened to see that a study was actually done over train whistles.  100K per crossing?  Does anyone realize that in the end, things like that cost everyone of us the money it costs to do it? To change what has been around for literally 100's of years?  Airports often have noise polices.  Are you aware that those policies actually add to your risk during take off and landings? To satisfy the complaints from a few who chose to buy by the airports to start with?  Frankly, I don't like the fact that the fireworks not only cost me personally (my tax dollars) but also cause others to fire their guns to join the fun. Should we ban the fireworks because I complain about it?  Not hardly.  At some point, common sense has to kick in.

From reading this thread, it seems that those that blocked the original amphitheatre may have actually added to the problem.  If we don't have a properly designed amphitheatre, just reducing the decibels may aggravate the issue.  Bad "white noise" can be worse than hearing the music.  Would a properly designed and built amphitheatre not still allow a proper concert experience while allowing the decibel levels to be controlled better?  In other words, would it not be easier to control the sound levels for everyone? 

Adding things like temporary sound walls put up and taken down at every concert seems like a large additional expense that could effectively kill the site for concerts anyway.  A permanent one paid for by us taxpayers kills the park in other ways.  The solution may be to go back to the original idea and rebuild the amphitheatre properly and then everyone wins.  The complaining residents get their reduced noise levels and the concert goers get more concerts.  And perhaps the city gets a better revenue stream.

There's no question things are worse now than if we had a real ampitheater with modern acoustics and sound dampening, as well as an invested contractor overseeing concerts and holding them to the rules. Unfortunately it's unlikely to ever happen, due to the influence we allow the complainers, among other things. In this case we're just going to have to hold to fix what we've got and make sure we don't lose it.

[SoundGuy]

The Metro Park bill is about the noise. The decibel level, the length of the concerts etc. If someone has a suggestion to reduce the noise level for the Southbank residents at a reasonable cost I would love to hear it. What is an acceptable decibel level for those who must go to work early the next morning? How loud is too loud while you are in your own home even in the afternoon? Some have children that attend school on Monday morning. I imagine you will hear from the supporters at the public hearing because they are the ones who have to live with it.This has been an issue for a long time and to date no reasonable solutions have been identified.

    I am pretty sure that this ordinance is being pushed under the guise of noise complaints, it even says so in the bill summary. I am sure someone was walking out of church on a Sunday during Welcome to Rockville or The Big Ticket when they could hear F bombs ripping across the river. They ran to their Councilman, who they know is a avid member and usher at First Baptist Church (aka-city hall), they know this because on the coj.net site that is really his only acheivement, that and the fact that he has kept a barber shop running for 40 years. Now here comes Good "Ol Don to the rescue. These are the same type of people that have boycotted movies right out of theaters in our city. If this was just about noise pollution on a school night, then Jags and Suns night time home games are all prime for the picking, as is the fireworks and mortars used at these events.
     As far as imposing a decibel limit, that can not be done without the sound of the show being comprimised. ALL artist contracts include a safe operating decibel level. So to impose that ordinance would cause artist to not play your events. If you push an unacceptable decibel limit on the entertainment district, your precious sporting events will have to comply also(rules are rules). That rules also appies to setting an end time earlier than 11pm, since night time games that start at 8 sometimes run until midnight. I am certain that if you had a country event in the park, most of the complaintants would be outside barbecuing and enjoying the free show.

[Adam W]

The Metro Park bill is about the noise. The decibel level, the length of the concerts etc. If someone has a suggestion to reduce the noise level for the Southbank residents at a reasonable cost I would love to hear it. What is an acceptable decibel level for those who must go to work early the next morning? How loud is too loud while you are in your own home even in the afternoon? Some have children that attend school on Monday morning. I imagine you will hear from the supporters at the public hearing because they are the ones who have to live with it.This has been an issue for a long time and to date no reasonable solutions have been identified.

I am certain that if you had a country event in the park, most of the complaintants would be outside barbecuing and enjoying the free show.

I doubt that. Most of the complainants are probably people who live across the water from the Park and who are actually impacted by the noise. We may not agree with Redman's attempts to stop concerts in the Park (I think it's ludicrous), but that doesn't mean the people living across the water aren't actually impacted by the noise. Whether or not their complaints are reasonable is another issue. I think they may be reasonable, or more accurately, I cannot answer one way or another, as I do not live in their houses and don't have to deal with it myself - it wouldn't be fair of me to dismiss the concern out of hand.

The better solution would be to find a workable compromise. A curfew for concerts at the Park might work as well as perhaps some sort of rule regarding decibel levels - as suggested - might help. I don't agree with your contention that it would have to cover Jaguars games as well, as there is no reason to believe that a rule or ordinance couldn't be drafted in a way that would allow for exceptions or have specific language targeting a particular venue. But I'm not a lawyer.

Ideally we should have a fit-for-purpose amphitheater in the Park. But that seems even further away now in light of this present complaint.

[triclops i]

If you moved the amphitheater from metro to say....the half mile of empty space between metro and berkman plaza....would that make a difference?

[tufsu1]

     As far as imposing a decibel limit, that can not be done without the sound of the show being comprimised. ALL artist contracts include a safe operating decibel level. So to impose that ordinance would cause artist to not play your events.

huh?