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Author Topic: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped  (Read 10738 times)

Tacachale

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2013, 09:12:55 AM »
I'm sure that I've read it on here somewhere before, but didn't the original plans for metropark contain a design for a real amphitheater?

And weren't those original plans deterred by the same people across the river for the same reasons, noise? 

Dogwalker, I believe, was part of the group that was against it, but I could be mistaken.

I couldn't dig up any additional info from the search bar, so if anyone can pull the relevant thread, I think it would help the current discussion.

You are correct. It was going to be way smaller than the Tampa one.
And are people complaining in St Augustine?

As I say every chance I get, yes, we were supposed to get a real outdoor amphitheater at Met Park, and it was thwarted by, among other factors, Grinches from St. Nicholas who preferred the urban core be deathly silent year round. Noise complaints have always been an issue for Met Park. Or rather, the mentality in this city that we need to bend over backwards to accommodate anyone anywhere who has a complaint. I mean seriously, if concerts aren't acceptable Downtown, where in the entire metro area are they acceptable? It's really disheartening to see one of our downtown council members trying to do away with downtown events.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

CityLife

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 09:28:43 AM »
My house is right behind the 3rd and Main building in Springfield and the building amplifies sound in the direction of my house to a much greater level than anywhere in my vicinity. My wife and I were watching TV that Sunday night and I could even tell what song Bush was playing while the TV was on. To give you an idea of how loud it was.

I'll gladly take a little noise here and there if it means our downtown is going to be utilized more and people are going to be able to enjoy our beautiful riverfront. If you live in proximity to Downtown or any city for that matter, you should expect a little noise here and there.

That said, the concert probably shouldn't be going on until 11 on a work/school night. The Talleyrand Festival a few years back had a decent lineup and was an all day affair on a Saturday, and it was also during football season. The obvious solution should be to limit concerts until 10 on work/school nights and encourage them to happen on a Friday or Saturday. If a promoter has an issue with that, they can always move it to the spring when it isn't football season.

CityLife

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 09:36:57 AM »
I'll also add that there should be a strong market for concerts that appeal to the 18-40ish crowd at Metro Park, given the direction the St. Augustine Amphitheater has gone with its bookings. So here instead of attempting to seize on a major opportunity to stimulate growth in the Downtown entertainment sector, we have a Councilman doing the exact opposite.....cusswords......

fieldafm

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2013, 09:45:05 AM »
You know what would be a better noise reducing measure for Southbank residents?

http://residentnews.net/2012/12/05/quiet-zones-solution-historic-districts-train-horns/

This affects residents EVERY DAY.  Not just 12 times a year(or less b/c we currently do not enjoy 12 concerts a year at Met Park).
Train horns and concerts are completely different issues.

If the issue is about noise, then you should be consistent and also ban Jazz Fest, the Monster Truck Rally, fireworks downtown, Motorcross and all Bishop Kenny and Episcopal football games.  All of those make noise for St Nicholas and Empire Point residents.  You should probably ban kickball games in St Nicholas park while you're at it... in the interest of consistency.

If it's really about noise, silent zones for trains affect FAR more people every day... multiple times a day.

Or, as Tampa (or Albany, Columbia, LA... I could go on and on here) has done with their widly succesful ampitheatre... build a sound wall.  OR restrict the hours on every night but Friday and Saturday. 

It's time for the Office of District 4 to get out of the park regulating business.

Tacachale

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2013, 09:58:38 AM »
It's time for the Office of District 4 to get out of the park regulating business.

High time. And to quit giving priority registration to those who celebrate having things not happen Downtown.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

JaxDiablo

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2013, 10:03:38 AM »
You know what would be a better noise reducing measure for Southbank residents?

http://residentnews.net/2012/12/05/quiet-zones-solution-historic-districts-train-horns/

This affects residents EVERY DAY.  Not just 12 times a year(or less b/c we currently do not enjoy 12 concerts a year at Met Park).
Train horns and concerts are completely different issues.

I thought the issue was sound?  They both produce an ample amount of sound; enough to disturb residents of the area.  You can't pick which sound you want to annoy you, it's either all sounds that are disturbing, or no sounds are disturbing.
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RockStar

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2013, 10:41:31 AM »
If there is a King of the Asshats somewhere, meet Don Redman, the Emperor.

Dog Walker

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2013, 10:55:04 AM »
Quote
I'm sure that I've read it on here somewhere before, but didn't the original plans for metropark contain a design for a real amphitheater?

And weren't those original plans deterred by the same people across the river for the same reasons, noise?

Dogwalker, I believe, was part of the group that was against it, but I could be mistaken.

Nope, you are not mistaken about my involvement in stopping the amphitheater.  You are mistaken to think it was a part of the original plan for Metropolitan Park.  It was a scheme cooked up by Rick Mullaney to benefit some friends of his.  He was also going transfer a public park over to ownership by a private corporation.

He was chief of staff to Delaney at the time and got caught hiding some correspondence that he should have revealed to numerous public records requests.  Rather than see him prosecuted, the mayor decided to drop the whole thing.  I think it was a major embarrassment to Delaney.

The issue at the time WAS noise.  The concerts were going to be more numerous (50 per year), later at night (1AM) and louder than they are now.  The 11PM limit was put in as part of the settlement over the amphitheater. 

St. Nicholas and San Marco can really get blasted with the sound when the river and weather conditions are just right.  Wind from the west, low cloud cover and smooth water makes the music as loud on the other side of the river as in the park itself. I once measured 92dba in my back yard in St. Nicholas when there was a rock concert in the stadium.

That said, Redman's meat axe approach to the problem is ridiculous.  Speaker number, orientation and volume control can reduce the overflow sound greatly and the 11PM cutoff time is very reasonable.  I lived in the same house for a long time after the amphitheater fiasco and never again found the music to be a problem.

None of us can reasonably expect silence; we do live in a city.  I currently live in a commercial area with delivery and trash trucks coming and going at all hours, on a major through street and am close enough to the train tracks to be able to hear the rumble of the engines.  I am also with a hundred yards of the I-10/I-95 intersection.

I love it.  It is the sound of life in an urban core and I don't won't to live anywhere else.

Music is harder to deal with.  It is much harder to put in the background of your consciousness .  It is written and performed to demand attention and hits our brain in a different way.

Maybe there are some people who will complain about ANY music coming from the Park, but there are some simple, inexpensive ways to control the spread of the music to satisfy most of the residents who are currently complaining, if indeed it is more than just a few people who live right on the river.

Stopping all concerts in the park is even more idiotic than taking up the chairs and tables in Hemming Plaza and that sets a pretty high (low?) standard for stupidity.
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stephendare

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2013, 10:58:29 AM »
I'm sure that I've read it on here somewhere before, but didn't the original plans for metropark contain a design for a real amphitheater?

And weren't those original plans deterred by the same people across the river for the same reasons, noise? 

Dogwalker, I believe, was part of the group that was against it, but I could be mistaken.

I couldn't dig up any additional info from the search bar, so if anyone can pull the relevant thread, I think it would help the current discussion.

You are correct. It was going to be way smaller than the Tampa one.
And are people complaining in St Augustine?

As I say every chance I get, yes, we were supposed to get a real outdoor amphitheater at Met Park, and it was thwarted by, among other factors, Grinches from St. Nicholas who preferred the urban core be deathly silent year round. Noise complaints have always been an issue for Met Park. Or rather, the mentality in this city that we need to bend over backwards to accommodate anyone anywhere who has a complaint. I mean seriously, if concerts aren't acceptable Downtown, where in the entire metro area are they acceptable? It's really disheartening to see one of our downtown council members trying to do away with downtown events.

This idea that people are selectively entitled to total silence in a city is pretty poisonous really.  I have to listen to fireworks and the low bass of announce voices during these football matches that they have at that stadium well into the night.

If the metropolitan park concerts have to go, then I think the football matches should go as well.  And no more fourth of july fireworks.  Or New Years Eve or any of the like.

This is, after all the point of living in a city.  Not just a big city, or even a small one.  But just a city in particular.  To enjoy the economic and entertainment events that are only possible with these types of venues and this type of infrastructure.

I think that there are a handful of people who take their own suburban/rural expectations and make it into a cult of selfish prerogative.

Blocking the ampitheatre was a bad idea and the city has suffered as a result of it.  This is an even worse one.
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urbanlibertarian

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2013, 10:59:15 AM »
IMO the only residents who have a legitimate gripe are those who were living nearby when the ampitheatre was built.  I (like tufsu1) moved DT afterward and IMO have to accept things the way they were.  That doesn't mean it wouldn't be good if shows voluntarily tried to be more considerate of the neighbors.
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urbanlibertarian

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2013, 11:01:15 AM »
If there is a King of the Asshats somewhere, meet Don Redman, the Emperor.

I've never met the man but he strikes me as someone with a deep abiding fear that someone somewhere is having un-wholesome fun.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes (‘Who watches the watchmen?’)

stephendare

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2013, 11:03:07 AM »
Quote
None of us can reasonably expect silence; we do live in a city.  I currently live in a commercial area with delivery and trash trucks coming and going at all hours, on a major through street and am close enough to the train tracks to be able to hear the rumble of the engines.  I am also with a hundred yards of the I-10/I-95 intersection.

I love it.  It is the sound of life in an urban core and I don't won't to live anywhere else.

Music is harder to deal with.  It is much harder to put in the background of your consciousness .  It is written and performed to demand attention and hits our brain in a different way.

Maybe there are some people who will complain about ANY music coming from the Park, but there are some simple, inexpensive ways to control the spread of the music to satisfy most of the residents who are currently complaining, if indeed it is more than just a few people who live right on the river.

Stopping all concerts in the park is even more idiotic than taking up the chairs and tables in Hemming Plaza and that sets a pretty high (low?) standard for stupidity.

^this.

and Dogwalker, while I knew that you were involved with stopping the amphitheater, I was not including you in the description of the above mentioned cultists---many of whom labor under the impression that because the city and its historic districts have been deserted and dysfunctional for so long that the gravelike silence and ample parking are conditions that are also historic or should be maintained as the status quo.
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Dog Walker

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2013, 11:04:35 AM »
If there is a King of the Asshats somewhere, meet Don Redman, the Emperor.

I've never met the man but he strikes me as someone with a deep abiding fear that someone somewhere is having un-wholesome fun.

He is also someone who thinks that there are simple answers for complicated problems.  NOT!
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stephendare

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2013, 11:10:05 AM »
Don Redman needs to resign.

It is high time---actually past time----that a petition was circulated demanding the resignation of this hateful, bigoted, mean spirited and counterproductive old man.

He has no business whatsoever serving on the City Council, and needs to go.
And now abide faith, hope and love; these three, but the greatest of these is love

Dog Walker

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Re: Councilman Redman wants Metro Park concerts stopped
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2013, 11:12:31 AM »
He does have one tiny redeeming feature; he supports bicycle projects.  (How's that for damming with faint praise!)

Does anyone remember if he had opposition in his last election or, if so, who it was?
When all else fails hug the dog.