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Author Topic: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!  (Read 4868 times)

Lunican

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 01:57:12 PM »
Do any public libraries make a profit? Or is the goal to break even?

We need to do something about the money losing Fuller Warren Bridge. Actually, it turns out that all seven bridges aren't making a profit.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 02:00:41 PM »
There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Correct.  This is why we're on the verge of bankruptcy now.  We're spending cash we don't have on road infrastructure we can't afford to maintain, yet refusing to allow the type of density needed to break even on those investments.  In the Skyway's case, I think you have to look at the larger picture than if 1,700 riders are paying fifty cents to cross the river.  Part of the reason for the increase is JTA has eliminated some duplicate bus routes.  Since you lose money collecting fares anyway, you actually save cash by eliminating duplicate transit services while still serving that core area. 

IMO, more elimination of duplicate services should occur and it should become a higher priority to redevelop properties around its stations.  We don't need to wait for a streetcar to get TOD off the ground.  We have eight Skyway stations we can play with right now.

stephendare

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 02:02:50 PM »
^Pretty much. You're not doing yourself any good charging 1,700 daily riders fifty cents each.

Do any public transportation systems actually make a profit? Or is the goal to break even?

The goal is to provide transportation.  Collecting fares provides a lessening of the cost.  But they have the same goal that highways and overpasses have. 
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stephendare

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 02:15:56 PM »
There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Correct.  This is why we're on the verge of bankruptcy now.  We're spending cash we don't have on road infrastructure we can't afford to maintain, yet refusing to allow the type of density needed to break even on those investments.  In the Skyway's case, I think you have to look at the larger picture than if 1,700 riders are paying fifty cents to cross the river.  Part of the reason for the increase is JTA has eliminated some duplicate bus routes.  Since you lose money collecting fares anyway, you actually save cash by eliminating duplicate transit services while still serving that core area. 

IMO, more elimination of duplicate services should occur and it should become a higher priority to redevelop properties around its stations.  We don't need to wait for a streetcar to get TOD off the ground.  We have eight Skyway stations we can play with right now.

Lake this is one of the most succinct things youve ever written
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exnewsman

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2013, 02:16:10 PM »

IMO, more elimination of duplicate services should occur and it should become a higher priority to redevelop properties around its stations.  We don't need to wait for a streetcar to get TOD off the ground.  We have eight Skyway stations we can play with right now.
[/quote]

That Bay Street Station project that Carlton Jones was planning adjacent to the Jefferson Skyway Statation would have been a nice start. I wonder how many folks at the condos (San Marco Place, Peninsula, etc.) on the Southbank use the Skyway? They are just steps away. The recession and then the FFDOT Overland Bridge project stopped the Mike Balanky project next to the Hilton Hotels on Kings Ave. Another great opportunity lsot (or at least postponed).

stephendare

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 02:21:05 PM »

IMO, more elimination of duplicate services should occur and it should become a higher priority to redevelop properties around its stations.  We don't need to wait for a streetcar to get TOD off the ground.  We have eight Skyway stations we can play with right now.


That Bay Street Station project that Carlton Jones was planning adjacent to the Jefferson Skyway Statation would have been a nice start. I wonder how many folks at the condos (San Marco Place, Peninsula, etc.) on the Southbank use the Skyway? They are just steps away. The recession and then the FFDOT Overland Bridge project stopped the Mike Balanky project next to the Hilton Hotels on Kings Ave. Another great opportunity lsot (or at least postponed).
[/quote]

It would be nice to see some proposals or concepts on how best to convert the skyway stations into Transit Oriented Development Projects. 

For our readers who arent acquainted with the term, a TOD is a project that combines a transit element with the kind of 'development' that would be supported by transit.

Like a shopping center built into a subway station, or an apartment complex with ground level retail built right into the train station or an older example like the Five Points shopping district designed and built around the trolley stops.
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JFman00

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 02:29:50 PM »
On TOD, it's not for nothing that Japan's transit operators make a great deal of their business from real estate.

Every time I'm on the Southbank I'm struck by how pedestrian unfriendly almost all of it is. A walk down Google Streetview shows you buildings set far back along the road with parking in between, and a sterile suburban road. Looks and feels much more like a suburban office park than an urban neighborhood.

stephendare

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 02:32:17 PM »
On TOD, it's not for nothing that Japan's transit operators make a great deal of their business from real estate.

Every time I'm on the Southbank I'm struck by how pedestrian unfriendly almost all of it is. A walk down Google Streetview shows you buildings set far back along the road with parking in between, and a sterile suburban road. Looks and feels much more like a suburban office park than an urban neighborhood.


They did in this country too.  most of the trolley lines were built by housing and commercial developers, not 'transit agencies'.  The trolley companies were real estate investors making their property useful by providing transit to the new buildings.  They never made their profits solely from fare collection.
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Doctor_K

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 02:33:09 PM »
That Bay Street Station project that Carlton Jones was planning adjacent to the Jefferson Skyway Statation would have been a nice start. I wonder how many folks at the condos (San Marco Place, Peninsula, etc.) on the Southbank use the Skyway? They are just steps away. The recession and then the FFDOT Overland Bridge project stopped the Mike Balanky project next to the Hilton Hotels on Kings Ave. Another great opportunity lsot (or at least postponed).

I wonder how many MORE riders the Skyway would have if any of those condo towers had been planned and constructed INCORPORATING the existing infrastructure in some capacity.  As such, the towers are completely separate and across the street(s) from the actual Station, no?

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."  -- Albert Einstein

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 02:41:00 PM »
^I doubt those new towers have had much of an impact.  They aren't integrated with the Skyway in any fashion.  Those would be examples of TAD or Transit Adjacent Development.  They simply happen to be within a quarter mile radius of the nearest Skyway station.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2013, 02:48:55 PM »
On TOD, it's not for nothing that Japan's transit operators make a great deal of their business from real estate.

Every time I'm on the Southbank I'm struck by how pedestrian unfriendly almost all of it is. A walk down Google Streetview shows you buildings set far back along the road with parking in between, and a sterile suburban road. Looks and feels much more like a suburban office park than an urban neighborhood.

Soon, you won't have to travel to Japan to find an example.  Keep your eye on FEC and their All Aboard Florida train they plan to have running between Orlando and Miami by 2015.  They are utilizing passenger rail in a manner that creates value and economic opportunity for TOD on land they own adjacent to the tracks.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2013, 03:05:45 PM »
Some examples of Transit Oriented Development (TOD):

Charlotte's LNXY LRT:






MARTA's (Atlanta) Linbergh Station:









Miami's Metrorail:






Miami Metromover (JTA Skyway's cousin):








Chicago El's North Clayborn Station:






carpnter

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 03:11:52 PM »
A free skyway downtown might not be a bad idea if there were lines from the suburbs feeding it. 

Tacachale

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »
Nice. Some long awaited good press for the Skyway.
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thelakelander

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Re: JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System!
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 03:46:21 PM »
A free skyway downtown might not be a bad idea if there were lines from the suburbs feeding it. 
It's not a bad idea now and if we continue to work on the goal of an integrated mass transit system that serves areas outside of downtown, we'll reach the point you describe as well.