City to install 66 Traffic Violation Cameras at City Intersections?

[KenFSU]

Better yet, why not just save all the hassle, expense, maintenance, controversy, and rewriting of Florida law and instead just put the green lights at these intersections on a two or three second delay. It will serve the exact same purpose -- intersection safety -- as the needlessly complex, invasive, questionably illegal camera system. In fact, if you are one to believe the, you know, scientific studies, a simple delay would actually be exponentially more effective and safe, avoiding the multi-car pileups proven to be so prevalent at camera-monitored intersections when some paranoid driver inevitably sees the camera and slams on the brakes at a yellow light to avoid getting ticketed.

Unless of course, it really isn't about safety like our good friends at the city are implying.

Ironic isn't it that only one of these two options could have saved the life of the girl who the bill was named after, and it certainly isn't the cameras.

[stephendare]

thanks for telling the truth about it Ken.

[none4youtoo]

The fine for running a red light is around $250.  Lets say 4 people per intersection break the law and get sited, that's $1000 an hour these cameras are generating.  Damn right they're worth it.  Not only the obvious money that can be made, but it decreases the amount of accidents.  People will hopefully stop trying to race the light, which not only is illegal & unsafe, but it is also rude.  People thinking that their time is more important than everyone elses.  I've lived all around this country, and drivers in Jacksonville are among the rudest. Not so much on the beaches, this is one of the reasons I live at the beach.  You know a townie when you see one on the beach roadways; speeding, running lights, cutting people off, etc.

Anyhoo, Its common sense, its a plus all the way around.

[Driven1]

The fine for running a red light is around $250.  Lets say 4 people per intersection break the law and get sited, that's $1000 an hour these cameras are generating.  Damn right they're worth it.  Not only the obvious money that can be made,

everything with your argument was going just fine until you said...

but it decreases the amount of accidents. 

did you READ the studies posted above?  surely you couldn't have.  and who CARES about civil liberties. 

btw...aren't there some very old, arcane "bedroom" laws on the books here in FL still?  I know that is the case in a few other states still - like Texas.  if that is the case, we better put cameras in bedrooms, cause we know how STDs get passed - and those kill or disable people sometimes - and we don't want that happening.  right?  PLUS - it would be an AWESOME revenue source!

[Driven1]

Although I would certainly want the manufacturer to pay for it, I still would not be in favor of having them. I don't feel it would be a good system to have...one of several reasons would be, if it merely tracks who exceeds 70mph, that still would not impact those who are exceeding the limits that are lower than that...see what I mean?

Joan,

using your logic, HOW then can you be for the 11 cameras???  because those are not covering ALL of the intersections of Jacksonville???

btw, statistically-speaking, it isn't the lower speeds that kill.    now let's get those speed-monitoring devices on our vehicles ASAP.

[jbm32206]

To be honest, I'm not up on the latest stats as to what the average speed is, when it comes to fatalities....so to be fair, I can't really respond to that. As for the cameras at lights, I was under the impression that they wanted to more or less test them out at the high accident intersections, right?

I would think, that if they prove to help...(although I feel that if they prove to be lucrative, is more like it) then perhaps they'd opt to install more around the city. There's just no feasible way to have them at every intersection.

Anyway, I'm for them...if they help reduce the red light runners...which create unsafe conditions for other drivers...but fully understand that it's not going to stop them all, not in the least...but IMO, if they stop one, which prevents one accident, then it's worth it. I'm more for saving lives, even if it means the manufacturers make money at it.

[gatorback]

I HATE this idea.

Its a slippery slope, and more fascist than American.

If the video can be used to catch traffic offenders, then they can also be used to track movements of innocent people as well.

Why not a simple trap door mechanism that swallows  speeders and red light runners whole into the ground and keeps them securely in place until a cop arrives?

I LOVE THAT ONE.  Stephen, why stop there....why not install these traps at every public interaction.  We could trap people making them prove they 0) their blood alcohol is < .08,  1) Don't have outstanding warrents, 2) that they have no drugs on them, 3) not Rx's they have no script for, and  4) current insurance and current driv. lic.

If that's not enough, 5) no unpaid parking tickets, 6) no firearms, AND if "they" don't look like "us", (ie, a city bus, JSO vehical, or any other city vehical), we can ask them for 7) proof of nationality(btw it's this one I have a problem with), and last but not least, no overdue library books. What the freak does the ACLU think of this idea?

PS:  Tonight, I saw a city bus run a red.  I think we should bear arms, form a malitia, and go after our goverenment on this one to protect our right under the Second, Fifth, and Fourteen Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.
Did Bush kill Due Process?  That No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ...Oh, yeah, I think he did.  Bummer.

[gradco2004]

Gator, you have probably put yourself on Homeland Security's "to watch" list with that last post. A whole bunch of "trigger" words exposed!

Best loose that iPhone, huh...

[Xombies]

Yet another brought to you "for your protection" kinda thing. I totally get it and why these would be great but I also know good and well the money that should be used for hiring cops, firemen and civil servants is going for social projects in the community. How about instead of cameras we spend the money on rooting out gangs in the area or solving murders. I'd rather the government spent money on things they're supposed to..like roads, civil services or operation cost. Oh wait, lets make a bike trail while we're cutting prpoerty taxes and then put up cameras instead of hiring cops.

...government...working as intended.

Other than revenue generation the only thing will really do is make sure we get in on some of those "extream car chase" shows on FOX.

[gatorback]

I HATE this idea.

Its a slippery slope, and more fascist than American.

If the video can be used to catch traffic offenders, then they can also be used to track movements of innocent people as well.

Why not a simple trap door mechanism that swallows  speeders and red light runners whole into the ground and keeps them securely in place until a cop arrives?

I LOVE THAT ONE.  Stephen, why stop there....why not install these traps at every public interaction.  We could trap people making them prove they 0) their blood alcohol is < .08,  1) Don't have outstanding warrents, 2) that they have no drugs on them, 3) not Rx's they have no script for, and  4) current insurance and current driv. lic.

If that's not enough, 5) no unpaid parking tickets, 6) no firearms, AND if "they" don't look like "us", (ie, a city bus, JSO vehical, or any other city vehical), we can ask them for 7) proof of nationality(btw it's this one I have a problem with), and last but not least, no overdue library books. What the freak does the ACLU think of this idea?

PS:  Tonight, I saw a city bus run a red.  I think we should bear arms, form a malitia, and go after our goverenment on this one to protect our right under the Second, Fifth, and Fourteen Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.
Did Bush kill Due Process?  That No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ...Oh, yeah, I think he did.  Bummer.

gradco2004:  Thanks for point that out.   I WAS KIDDING ABOUT THE MALITIA!  I'm really love the US GOV and am proud to be an american.  With that said...

Clearly we have two competing systems here.  The first one being "Safer Intersections" and second  revenue generation.  That we need both; however, these ostensibly contradictory processes can be complementary when intelligently applied.  The problem here is will the coj get this right?

[Lunican]

Did someone take the time to ask FDOT why they do not support red light cameras, or did we just move forward with this without giving it any thought?

[M104]

Did someone take the time to ask FDOT why they do not support red light cameras, or did we just move forward with this without giving it any thought?

With the sub-prime mess and now commercial real-estate falling like residential,  lower Property Taxes are going to hit City governments hard, hence they are scrambling for revenue, and will put whatever spin they need to as well as any opportunity to justify additional revenue.

We need to tell our Council members to direct all revenue from these cameras to go to road safety programs and reducing traffic congestion, rather then some general fund.

http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/when-the-money-disappears-so-do-the-ticket-cameras/

Check out the National Motorist Association for more info:

http://www.motorists.org

[M104]

BTW: this was a letter I sent to all council members, the Mayor, and our local media:

Unfortunately, the research and other studies have shown that Red Light Cameras (RLC's) do NOT decrease accidents (Washington Post):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html
more importantly, the state of Virginia, has noted increased accidents, especially being rear-ended:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1844.asp

More information can be found here:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/studies/
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/articles/

I ask that the City of Jacksonville, look at engineering solutions before deploying RLC's such as:

1) adding a longer yellow-light, possibly in conjunction with an ALL-RED Clearance Interval;
2) Make traffic lights more visible (e.g., bigger lights; sun/glare shields; remove visible obstructions; etc.);
3) Improve the intersection for motorists (e.g., repaint lines; add more signage ahead; etc.);
4) Re-Time traffic signals

More importantly, the following safeguards should be enacted:

1) 90% of revenue should go to the public school system not the City's General Fund;

2) proposed intersections for RLC's should be base-lined and their yellow-light duration over over a 24-hour period over the seven-days of the weeks, along with the last time the yellow-light duration was last modified and made a public-record;

3) an independent study, who's methodology is public and open to peer-review be conducted every 2-years to assess the effectiveness and impact of RLV's;

4)vendor selection should be open-bid with criteria including most monetary benefit to the City, with all vendors providing clear and publicly available policies and procedures.

Only after the installation of properly engineered solutions and these safeguards enacted, should the City even consider installation of Red Light Cameras.

[KenFSU]

On a similar, equally creepy note, Daytona police officers have begun taking DNA samples from people pulled over for routine traffic stops in order to help catch a serial killer. If the person is pulled over for any reason, even a burnt out tail light, and they "match a similar profile" as the man believed to be the killer, police will swab the inside of the drivers mouth with a DNA kit. The ultra specific profile? "A clean cut male who possibly has a wife or girlfriend." I mean, you can't make this stuff up. They are also taking DNA from every single person arrested in Daytona Beach. Doesn't matter if the person is proven to be innocent as can be in a court of law, their DNA will stay remain on record, presumably forever. It's enough to make me want to stay out of Daytona Beach for a long, long time. 

Story: http://www.local6.com/news/15232197/detail.html?related

[Driven1]

if pulled over, i would politely suggest another place for officer friendly's q-tip.  that is crazy.