Inferences of City Based on City Council Members?

[simms3]

I pored over the JCCI tonight, which had me interested in my own city council, of course.  There were night and day differences, but I did notice a few common themes with the JCCI that translated to Jax-wide observations and potential issues.

1) The most striking thing about the Council Members' pages is that nearly all of them fail to talk about issues they are passionate about in terms of improving the city.  There are a couple who touch on citywide passions: Crescimbeni, Warren Jones (safety in 2 sentences more or less), maybe that's about it.

2) 15 out of 19 discuss religion - i.e. what church they are a member or a deacon at.  4 are members of FBC, but a couple of those members had relatively interesting pages compared to the lot.

3) There's definitely a good UF club going on at the City Council, and a few members are proud to be part of Gator Boosters, Gator Bowl Committee, etc

4) Lots of overlap on some associations like Meninak, Southside Businessmen's Club, Rotary Club, etc etc

5) Do ANY of those clubs MATTER to the job?

6) Lots of members go into DETAIL about their party afiliation...Denise Lee on the Democrat side for one and Robin Lumb the best example on the Republican side.  Is that still legal to afiliate in Jax?  I guess so.

7) Everyone has apparently one lots of little community awards and church awards and school awards and helps out at high schools and this that and the other.  OK???  What does that mean for Jacksonville?

Doyle Carter cannot be more proud to be a 5th Gen Westsider, a member of Old Plank Road Baptist Church, Morocco Shrine for 35 years, NRA member for 35+ years, Westside Republican Club, etc etc

That is his City Council website in a nutshell and tailors very well to his area, BUT they are all basically like that tailored to their little areas.

9) Bill Gulliford's page is just as tailored to the Beaches.  He is a member of the Beaches Boys Club apparently.  OK??? WTF



THIS is what Jacksonville is held back by.  It's not just small town or backwoods mentality, it's a collection of independent small towns and it comes through as plain as day just reading these City Council member pages.


Not ONE member had a major specific Jacksonville/citywide initiative that they were a part of or trying to tackle. 

Hardly any at all discuss ANY piece of legislation that says anything about them.  Their whole identities are based on how religious/family oriented they are and what local organizations they are a part of that are either in the field of "white boy club" or "local high school" or local church or "local preservation board".


There is NOTHING that says CITY when I see these pages.

[simms3]

In contrast I had to look at my own city council, which does have an openly gay member who is Asian and benefits from a piece of legislation proudly written by a fellow councilmember giving domestic partners working for the City equal benefits.

Only 3 of 16 members reference religion (2 reference the same Methodist church and 1 Baptist).  The Baptist also references working on the Black-Jewish Coalition.

The most common college for grad or undergrad was 2: Morehouse, GA State, and UGA.  Other colleges referenced were MIT, Notre Dame, Duke, Texas Tech, and someone's daughter goes to Harvard.

I can clearly list what seem like the 3 most important citywide issues for almost each member, and I can clearly list 3 organizations, none of which are churches or high schools or good old boys clubs.  The most common #1 issues were community development, transit, recycling, parks, social issues.  The most common #2 were TIF districts, budget issues, I see someone trying to pass a smoking ban, sustainability.  The most common #3 were the Beltline, social needs, community development again, and parks.

I didn't find much overlap in organizations, but among them were Human Rights Campaign, Beltline Inc, NAACP, Clean Green Team, Atlanta, Streetcar, L.E.A.D. Atlanta, Piedmont Park Conservancy, Atlanta Recycles, League of Women Voters,Leadership GA.


The bottom line is that the city council members were all often fighting for the same things and on the same page and working together on the same issues on projects that transcend districts (Beltline...is parks and improves safety and increases community development and addresses certain social needs).

NOBODY can be afiliated with a party.

[Charles Hunter]

Interesting comparison, simms.
City Council and Mayoral elections are unitary, but not non-partisan.  That is, candidates can declare party affiliation, or no party affiliation, but all candidates for each seat, run on the same ballot. 

The county school board elections are non-partisan - candidates cannot use party affiliation in their campaigns.  Although, most folks know who belongs to what party.

[simms3]

^^^But mayors are almost always voted on based on their party afiliation because such a big deal is always made of it.  When you have two council members of the same party running (which is often the case because districts are set up such that they are all entirely one party or the other), it seems they run on who they are as people just as much as what they're goals for the neighborhood are (and big goals for the entire city be damned).

[Tacachale]

^Not sure what you're saying there. Local elections tend not to fall along party lines but on local issues. Especially in places like Jax, where everyone is on the same ballot regardless of party, and conceivably even more so in places where no party affiliation is announced.

Even in such places, the politicians do have party affiliations and leanings, and party interests are often still heavily involved in their campaigns, but it's mitigated somewhat. IMO Jacksonville should get away from announced party affiliations just as we got rid of party primaries in the 1980s.

The major difference between the Jacksonville and Atlanta councils is that ours covers the entire county, while Atlanta's covers only the City of Atlanta, which contains only a small, heavily urban fraction of Fulton and Dekalb Counties (and an even smaller fraction of the the metro area as a whole). And before someone blames consolidation for our suburban mindset, if we didn't have that we'd likely have a setup like Orlando and Miami have, where there are city governments but also very powerful county governments, containing County Commissions and County Mayors, that are in many ways more significant than the city governments.

[KenFSU]

I pored over the JCCI tonight, which had me interested in my own city council, of course.  There were night and day differences, but I did notice a few common themes with the JCCI that translated to Jax-wide observations and potential issues.

1) The most striking thing about the Council Members' pages is that nearly all of them fail to talk about issues they are passionate about in terms of improving the city.  There are a couple who touch on citywide passions: Crescimbeni, Warren Jones (safety in 2 sentences more or less), maybe that's about it.

2) 15 out of 19 discuss religion - i.e. what church they are a member or a deacon at.  4 are members of FBC, but a couple of those members had relatively interesting pages compared to the lot.

3) There's definitely a good UF club going on at the City Council, and a few members are proud to be part of Gator Boosters, Gator Bowl Committee, etc

4) Lots of overlap on some associations like Meninak, Southside Businessmen's Club, Rotary Club, etc etc

5) Do ANY of those clubs MATTER to the job?

6) Lots of members go into DETAIL about their party afiliation...Denise Lee on the Democrat side for one and Robin Lumb the best example on the Republican side.  Is that still legal to afiliate in Jax?  I guess so.

7) Everyone has apparently one lots of little community awards and church awards and school awards and helps out at high schools and this that and the other.  OK???  What does that mean for Jacksonville?

Doyle Carter cannot be more proud to be a 5th Gen Westsider, a member of Old Plank Road Baptist Church, Morocco Shrine for 35 years, NRA member for 35+ years, Westside Republican Club, etc etc

That is his City Council website in a nutshell and tailors very well to his area, BUT they are all basically like that tailored to their little areas.

9) Bill Gulliford's page is just as tailored to the Beaches.  He is a member of the Beaches Boys Club apparently.  OK??? WTF



THIS is what Jacksonville is held back by.  It's not just small town or backwoods mentality, it's a collection of independent small towns and it comes through as plain as day just reading these City Council member pages.


Not ONE member had a major specific Jacksonville/citywide initiative that they were a part of or trying to tackle. 

Hardly any at all discuss ANY piece of legislation that says anything about them.  Their whole identities are based on how religious/family oriented they are and what local organizations they are a part of that are either in the field of "white boy club" or "local high school" or local church or "local preservation board".


There is NOTHING that says CITY when I see these pages.

Thanks for the breakdown Simms.

Pretty much confirmed what I've always suspected and feared but never known for certain.

I would bet that this same basic breakdown has existed for decades.

[KenFSU]

P.S.

Depressing, but not unexpected, statistics like these really make me believe that Jacksonville will never change. I hate to sound fatalistic, but I think the small town, religiously driven, simpleton mentality just runs so deep that I don't know if anything can be done to reverse it in the next 30-50 years. MJ, God bless you all, are fighting the good fight, but I find myself cringing every time I check the local news. From the humiliating courthouse debacle (from planning, to the atrocious design, to the furniture impasse, to the botched opening), to the crumbling Arena and botched Friendship Fountain renovation (two months broken, and counting, I believe), to the Mayor's antagonistic letter to Khan threatening to terminate the Jaguars' lease, to JaxPort turning down a quarter billion dollars in business, to Downtown Vision's Jaguaring video, I've pretty much lost all faith.

What other city in America do you see making mistakes like these???

I read a quote the other day from a 1991 New York Times article on the NFL Expansion.

In comparing Jacksonville to Charlotte, it said "Jacksonville is a city that is growing. But Charlotte is a city that is moving."

Twenty years later...

[Tacachale]

Good people giving up on important legislation like the Human Rights Ordinance and kowtowing to backwards interests is one major reason that this stuff keeps happening.

[simms3]

I drafted some sort of letter, but I can't email the JCCI - I too obviously don't live in Jacksonville.

I would email one kind of head/influential person there to consider pushing council members to beef up their pages and their individual websites if they so have them.  Some things that need to be included:

- Current legislation member is working on.  Could be neighborhood oriented, or citywide, but must include at least one citywide initiative the councilmember is sponsoring or pushing (or trying to block).

- A sentence explaining in a nutshell where the councilmember sees his or her neighborhood in 5-10 years, and furthermore, what the member's vision for Jacksonville is.


Some things that should be considered eligible for elimination from a member's page:

- Party afiliation
- Political views not pertinent to their taxpayer funded and publicly elected jobs to govern the city
- Religious views (of course can keep neutral information about their church or if they went to a religious school)


And frankly, I might point out that Jacksonville's reputation as a small town with a backwoods mentality and a good old boy network can easily be demonstrated by reading the council members' own pages.  This is where the link is made:

Several attend the same church
Several are members of the same business clubs
Several are members of the same social clubs
Several proudly point out controversial political memberships (NRA for one)
6 members went to UF and even more are supporters of the Gators

At least a third of the council attend megachurches - and they're all WHITE!  Ok then you know you're in for a crazy council when the white element is more religious and flaunting than the black element.

Point out that council members are elected and represent the general people, but ask that as the city of Jacksonville approaches 1 million people and continues to struggle economically if it might be worth changing the City Council's modus operandi to reflect that of a city's rather than a town's.  Rally the troops on citywide issues before neighborhood issues.  Unite the council and get them to focus on economic growth rather than petty politics.  Refine their pages, stay out of controversy, and strive to give Jacksonville a good name in the general public's and the business community's eyes.

[Tacachale]

Councilmembers' web pages are hardly one of the more pressing issues we face. And telling people they can't express their religious belief on their page is about the stupidest thing you could do. Not only would that violate a constitutional right, it would do nothing but antagonize the religious for absolutely no gain. They'd still be members of those churches and retain all their beliefs and connections, but they'd feel like they were being victimized for saying what church they're a member of.

[ronchamblin]

I don’t know about this god situation, this revealed religious thing, as has been the habit for too many decades in our local political environment.  It has always scared me.  Those who believe this old fiction, and those who fake believing, offer the fact that they are able to believe in something that has absolutely no basis in evidence of any kind.  Get real.  We depend on these individuals for leadership, and for making decisions affecting our city, and us? 

To them I say, it’s okay, even in Jacksonville, to be a non-believer, as non-believers are, if one is to be honest, more accountable for their behavior, for the objectives chosen in this life, and less attentive to rewards or punishments in an imagined future life.  The challenges are now.  The solutions arrive with objectivity, with science, with solid action, and not from the fiction of prayer or the faith that some god will assist you.  You alone are responsible.  Nobody will help you. 

Therefore, to them I say, in an independent and intelligent way, make the decisions necessary to improve the lives or your fellow citizens, even the non-believers, to reduce the suffering of your fellow man by firm decisions and actions according to the realities of this world, and not according to the fictions of a revealed religion, or from an imagined future world, fictions which exist only in the minds of the charlatans, or those duped by them.   

[Noone]

I drafted some sort of letter, but I can't email the JCCI - I too obviously don't live in Jacksonville.


- Current legislation member is working on.  Could be neighborhood oriented, or citywide, but must include at least one citywide initiative the councilmember is sponsoring or pushing (or trying to block).

JCCI is Jacksonville Community Council Inc.
They take on an issue then make recommendations to the Mayor and city council. Nothing is legislatively binding.
I've participated in two

1. River Dance- Putting the River in River City
2. Our Money, Our City, Financing Jacksonville's Future.

Eye opening experiences. Jam packed room everyone shows up for the first couple of meetings but see who is there at the end but still get the credits in the end for being a participant.

Current legislation a member or city is working on- This was the case in both JCCI studies that I was participating in. Ultimately voted on legislation that had negative affects before the study was complete.

As for current legislation lets see. The council just voted themselves free parking. (Who cares when a new Authority will have total control over the Parking revenue Downtown) I believe there is legislation pending for them now to get free Jaguar tickets. We have a resolution pending for new surveillance cameras. We just had a FIND disaster which just highlighted how LOST we are. The JTA director just got how much for doing what? So much more.

simms3, great insight with your posts.

So who wants to kayak and fish DOWNTOWN ( A Destination) under the brand new no fishing signs not before Waterways? Or allow me to show you our great restoration project of Hogans creek by the Maxwell House plant. Or our restoration of habitat at Stonewall and Chelsea St. on McCoys creek. 

[simms3]

Councilmembers' web pages are hardly one of the more pressing issues we face. And telling people they can't express their religious belief on their page is about the stupidest thing you could do. Not only would that violate a constitutional right, it would do nothing but antagonize the religious for absolutely no gain. They'd still be members of those churches and retain all their beliefs and connections, but they'd feel like they were being victimized for saying what church they're a member of.

Ok so I've been corrected...I'm talking about the actual City Council, not JCCI.

And I'm not for squashing freedom of speech, but I'm also not for mixing government and religion.  I never said prohibit any mention of your church or your religion, but I don't think Bible quotes and actual beliefs beyond stating the facts (I've been a deacon at such and such church for 35 years, etc) is relevant to the job, and without knowing too much minutia about law, I'm sure there is some precedent where it's been frowned upon before when publicly elected officials push their religious beliefs on the people they are supposed to serve.

Also, my point is sending a signal.  The president of the City Council right now needs to send a signal to his fellow council members that it is time to function like a CITY council, and not a collective of small town representatives.  You do that by espousing your beliefs that by ACTING and SHOWING like a City Council, you'll begin to function like one.

Put aside your petty beliefs and your small town associations, and be accountable for your actions as a CC member (actions having to do with legislation, i.e. your job, not your church or social clubs or kid's HS).  Usually when people appear one way, they begin to function like who they are trying to appear.  Does that make sense?

If it's acceptable to espouse all sorts of religious beliefs and political views and prove how conservative or liberal you are and how tied you are to your local neighborhood...you're going to only serve your neighborhood, you're going to get caught up in politics, and you're going to use your CC position as a pulpit for your religion.

That's what we have now, and that's what we have to move away from...and it starts at the bottom level of your life as a public servant - your campaign, your PR and how you want the world to see you/what you want the world to know about you.

[ronchamblin]

Nice Simms3.  Balanced.

[Ralph W]

Balanced, yes, but potentially inflammatory.
 
Starting the fourth sentence with "Put aside your petty beliefs..." will stop some people cold and get their back up so they don't see any thing else but a personal attack.

The current round of ill advised words in CC matters shows that some do not learn well from previous gaffs or attempts to corral impetuous or off the cuff remarks that should have been truncated before the mouth was engaged.