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Author Topic: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!  (Read 2742 times)

finehoe

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 10:48:55 AM »
Oh, my!  I can't wait to check this out!

stephendare

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 10:50:08 AM »
How much longer until Lola's opens?  I see they've already got the sign up.

they are hoping to have it open today, but for sure by next week
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fieldafm

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 10:52:52 AM »
I went to Beer:30 at lunch time the first day they opened.  Not only was everyone super friendly, I thought the selection was great (I picked up a 12 pack of canned Brooklyn Brewery Summer Ale, which is something i would have had to drive to Total Wine for) and the intro prices on Intuition cans were nothing short of phenomenal. 

This place has real potential.  My fridge has now almost run dry and I'll certainly be back in over the weekend to stock up again. 

Quote
How much longer until Lola's opens?  I see they've already got the sign up.

He's supposed to be open this weekend.

fieldafm

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 10:58:19 AM »
They have a great selection. The picture of the round table with all the beer on it was Sam Smith's brewery beers. Those were all on sale in addition to intuition. I think a king street octoberfest is inevitable at this point. The next things to look forward to in 'The Street' are Lola's and Dahlia's. Later in the year there will be Salt Fig and hopefully G&G. Big things!!!

Little off topic but Salty Fig is also opening a food truck.  The restaurant on King (which began construction this week after finally getting all the green lights from the City) will be styled after Ravenous Pig in Winter Park... which is one of my top 10 restaurants in the US.

Gonzo

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 11:54:00 AM »
I will be stopping in soon... but I have a question regarding bottled beer that I am hoping someone can answer.  I love trying new and different beers but usually do so at the micro brew house.  My question is about shelf life and freshness of bottled micro brews.  Is there a way to tell the date brewed or bottled?  Once bottled how long can it remain on the shelf? 

Great question, Bridge Troll, and quite hard to answer. Some breweries do add date codes, but most do not. Beer in any form, bottled, canned, or kegged, does have a definite shelf life. However, some beers can survive, and even  thrive for an extended period of time. Just like wine, beer can be cellared, it just depends on the beer and the conditions in which you keep them.

First, all beers are not created the same: Budweiser, Coors, and the like will not age well. They are meant to be drank immediately and only last 2-3 months. That is why the big brewers have made such a big deal about things like "Born on Date." The beers that do age well are big IPAs, Barleywines, Strong Belgian Ales, Imperials Stouts, Lambics, and Old Ales. These brews tend to mature and gain complexity as they age. The tannins and hop bite mellows and the malt character takes on a rich caramel character in IPAs and Imperial brews, while Belgian Ales tend to get thicker and more robust. Lambics are a special category all their own, most are not even released for consumption until they have aged for three or more years.

Second, be sure that you store your brews properly. Beer is extremely sensitive to light, that is why most is bottled in brown glass. But, even the glass barrier does not protect the object of your desire enough. Proper storage for beer you wish to age should be cool, dark, and free from vibration. Think the back of your closet covered with an old towel. But, be careful that the closet does not get too warm, beer should ideally be cellared in at 50 to 55 degrees. However, if you do not have an extra refrigerator specifically for beer, be sure your closet does not get any warmer than say 75 or so.

Beer should be stored upright, not on its side like wine. Since many craft beers have yeast in the bottle, lying it on its side will introduce a yeast ring on the side of the bottle. While this is not particularly harmful, it is ugly. The harmful part comes in if the beer is corked. Beer in contact with a cork can pick up some off flavors that may ruin the overall experience. Just keep them upright, they will be fine.

Third, how long do you want to cellar? Some beers can be aged for 10 years or more. But, these are the exception and not the rule. You will find that a beer aged for as little as six months will taste significantly different than a fresh beer. This is particularly true of highly-hopped beers like Hoptimum and Hopsequtioner. I like to buy a six-pack, drink one immediately and then one every three to four months to compare the flavors. But, as a rule of thumb, the higher the alcohol and hop content of a beer, the longer you can age it. I have several beers that are over three years old and I intend to let them go for a couple more before enjoying them. I also have a couple of Belgians that will not see the light of day for quite some time. If you are impatient and do not want to wait to see what something will taste like down the road, attend a vertical tasting. In these you will get to taste the smae beer from different production years. Beers that you will likely enjoy in this setting are Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot and 30th Anniversary Ale, Rogue Imperial XS Russian Imperials Stout, and most any offering of Trappist Ales.

A note on cans. You may have noticed that a lot of craft breweries are moving away from bottles and into cans. There are several very good reasons for this; cans are cheaper and more ecologically friendly, cans are lighter and cheaper, and cans do not allow light or air intrusions. All are great reasons, but for this discussion, the last reason is most significant. Keep in mind that aluminum does not insulate beer from variance in temperature as well as bottles so, cellar accordingly.

Bottom line is that craft beers fair much better on the shelf than mass-produced beers. But, care does need to be taken to protect their flavors. Store-keepers need to watch stock turns and try to rotate older stock out. One way you can ensure you have fresh beer is to purchase directly from the brewer or to ask your provider how long the beer has been on the shelf. A good proprietor will be able to give you an approximate idea.

Will all of these tactics help to ensure your beer tastes great? In a word, no. Beer is a finicky creature -- much more so than wine. Sometimes you will age a beer and it will not come out well, other times you will be rewarded with an awesome treat. The fun is in the discovery.
Born cold, wet, and crying; Gonzo has never-the-less risen to the pinnacle of the beer-loving world. You can read his dubious insights at www.JaxBeerGuy.com (click the BLOG link).

Gonzo

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 11:58:19 AM »
How much longer until Lola's opens?  I see they've already got the sign up.

When I spoke with Carlos last week for an article (http://www.examiner.com/article/lola-s-burrito-joint-to-open-this-week-the-king-street-beer-district?cid=db_articles), he said that they are shooting for this week.
Born cold, wet, and crying; Gonzo has never-the-less risen to the pinnacle of the beer-loving world. You can read his dubious insights at www.JaxBeerGuy.com (click the BLOG link).

BridgeTroll

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »
I will be stopping in soon... but I have a question regarding bottled beer that I am hoping someone can answer.  I love trying new and different beers but usually do so at the micro brew house.  My question is about shelf life and freshness of bottled micro brews.  Is there a way to tell the date brewed or bottled?  Once bottled how long can it remain on the shelf? 

Great question, Bridge Troll, and quite hard to answer. Some breweries do add date codes, but most do not. Beer in any form, bottled, canned, or kegged, does have a definite shelf life. However, some beers can survive, and even  thrive for an extended period of time. Just like wine, beer can be cellared, it just depends on the beer and the conditions in which you keep them.

First, all beers are not created the same: Budweiser, Coors, and the like will not age well. They are meant to be drank immediately and only last 2-3 months. That is why the big brewers have made such a big deal about things like "Born on Date." The beers that do age well are big IPAs, Barleywines, Strong Belgian Ales, Imperials Stouts, Lambics, and Old Ales. These brews tend to mature and gain complexity as they age. The tannins and hop bite mellows and the malt character takes on a rich caramel character in IPAs and Imperial brews, while Belgian Ales tend to get thicker and more robust. Lambics are a special category all their own, most are not even released for consumption until they have aged for three or more years.

Second, be sure that you store your brews properly. Beer is extremely sensitive to light, that is why most is bottled in brown glass. But, even the glass barrier does not protect the object of your desire enough. Proper storage for beer you wish to age should be cool, dark, and free from vibration. Think the back of your closet covered with an old towel. But, be careful that the closet does not get too warm, beer should ideally be cellared in at 50 to 55 degrees. However, if you do not have an extra refrigerator specifically for beer, be sure your closet does not get any warmer than say 75 or so.

Beer should be stored upright, not on its side like wine. Since many craft beers have yeast in the bottle, lying it on its side will introduce a yeast ring on the side of the bottle. While this is not particularly harmful, it is ugly. The harmful part comes in if the beer is corked. Beer in contact with a cork can pick up some off flavors that may ruin the overall experience. Just keep them upright, they will be fine.

Third, how long do you want to cellar? Some beers can be aged for 10 years or more. But, these are the exception and not the rule. You will find that a beer aged for as little as six months will taste significantly different than a fresh beer. This is particularly true of highly-hopped beers like Hoptimum and Hopsequtioner. I like to buy a six-pack, drink one immediately and then one every three to four months to compare the flavors. But, as a rule of thumb, the higher the alcohol and hop content of a beer, the longer you can age it. I have several beers that are over three years old and I intend to let them go for a couple more before enjoying them. I also have a couple of Belgians that will not see the light of day for quite some time. If you are impatient and do not want to wait to see what something will taste like down the road, attend a vertical tasting. In these you will get to taste the smae beer from different production years. Beers that you will likely enjoy in this setting are Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot and 30th Anniversary Ale, Rogue Imperial XS Russian Imperials Stout, and most any offering of Trappist Ales.

A note on cans. You may have noticed that a lot of craft breweries are moving away from bottles and into cans. There are several very good reasons for this; cans are cheaper and more ecologically friendly, cans are lighter and cheaper, and cans do not allow light or air intrusions. All are great reasons, but for this discussion, the last reason is most significant. Keep in mind that aluminum does not insulate beer from variance in temperature as well as bottles so, cellar accordingly.

Bottom line is that craft beers fair much better on the shelf than mass-produced beers. But, care does need to be taken to protect their flavors. Store-keepers need to watch stock turns and try to rotate older stock out. One way you can ensure you have fresh beer is to purchase directly from the brewer or to ask your provider how long the beer has been on the shelf. A good proprietor will be able to give you an approximate idea.

Will all of these tactics help to ensure your beer tastes great? In a word, no. Beer is a finicky creature -- much more so than wine. Sometimes you will age a beer and it will not come out well, other times you will be rewarded with an awesome treat. The fun is in the discovery.

Thanks Gonzo... I can control my storage easy enough... and a responsible proprietor like Beer:30 can ensure proper rotation... it is the distributer that is the unknown quantity...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Gonzo

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 12:24:04 PM »
Thanks Gonzo... I can control my storage easy enough... and a responsible proprietor like Beer:30 can ensure proper rotation... it is the distributer that is the unknown quantity...

Very true, and some a re much better than others. In our area, I have found that the distributors with the best beer portfolios have much higher standards when it comes to handling and storage. I will not name names, but I am sure you can guess who is more attuned and in touch with craft beers as opposed to mass-produced beers.
Born cold, wet, and crying; Gonzo has never-the-less risen to the pinnacle of the beer-loving world. You can read his dubious insights at www.JaxBeerGuy.com (click the BLOG link).

Gonzo

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2012, 12:27:49 PM »
The next things to look forward to in 'The Street' are Lola's and Dahlia's. Later in the year there will be Salt Fig and hopefully G&G. Big things!!!

I speak with the owners of Dahlia's quite often -- doing a pub crawl with them on June 23rd downtown -- and they are hopeful that the place will be open in three weeks. The space is really quite cool and bigger than you would think inside. They are ramping up to have the most taps in the "Beer District" on their opening day.
Born cold, wet, and crying; Gonzo has never-the-less risen to the pinnacle of the beer-loving world. You can read his dubious insights at www.JaxBeerGuy.com (click the BLOG link).

tarheels86

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »
I will be stopping in soon... but I have a question regarding bottled beer that I am hoping someone can answer.  I love trying new and different beers but usually do so at the micro brew house.  My question is about shelf life and freshness of bottled micro brews.  Is there a way to tell the date brewed or bottled?  Once bottled how long can it remain on the shelf?

First off, nice article David. Second, @BridgeTroll there are a number of reasons.

To start, what beer(s) are you talking about that are dramatically different from tap and bottle? Just curious.

In general, the "age" of the beer is not going to matter as much in a beer store compared to handling. If the beer is stored in sunlight or in directly heat, this can damage the beer no matter what type of medium it is. Cans, yes, eliminate UV "skunking" of hop isohumulones. But cans will either impart a tinny flavor over time, or if not, will have a special coating inside that some brewers claim absorb hop beta acids (aromatic hops). So, there is really no perfect medium for storing beer. Think of a keg as simply a large can, metal with an interior coating, that is stored prior to serving either correctly or incorrectly.

A better way of serving beer that is catching on is called a KEY keg. They have their own website. It is a plastic PET ball with a "bag" inside that beer goes in. The space between the plastic and the bag is pressurized. They are disposable kegs, super lightweight, and dispense 30 liters of beer. Pretty nifty.

Now to answer your question directly, the best brewery for knowing bottling dates is Bell's Brewing from Kalamazoo MI. Beer:30 and Grassroots, i.a., stock them. Bells does batch numbers and dates. If you don't see a date, the batch number you plug into their beer website, bellsbeer.com, and it tells you when it was bottled. But this is really only necessary for one of their beers, Two Hearted-Ale, which is an IPA that MUST be drunk fresh. After two months, it's just not worth it. But for other styles, it doesn't really matter. If it was stored properly, it will be fine- porters, stouts, lambic, whatever. I would only fret about freshness with IPAs. Double IPAs are even more fragile than IPAs even though that is a bit ironic.

Yes, DIPAs will age but they will lose aromatic hops and because malt forward. Essentially they will become identical to a barleywine overtime. So they age will, but the taste is not what was intended unless very fresh. Bell's makes a few Double IPAs like The Oracle and Hopslam, and these do age well. But I personally think it would be a waste. You will not get a juicy fresh hop resin and pineapple/mango character out of Hopslam when it is old, but physically, yes it will age okay. Two-Hearted, however, old will become thin and astringent. Essentially undrinkable. I would say that about most American IPAs below a certain alcohol level.

Also for aging, a good rule of thumb is that hop-forward styles drink immediately. Malt-forward styles like Belgian Strong Ale, American Strong Ale, Porter, Stout, etc can be aged but depends on why you want to age them. Inside a beer store, I highly doubt they are "aging" the beer to get a specific character out of it. They are just sitting on the shelve. As long as they've been stored properly, doesn't matter how old in my opinion.

Since most breweries don't age date their bottles, one trick you can do, it rarely works though, is look at the embossed numbers on the GLASS bottle. This will tell you when the GLASS was manufactured. So if it says 2011, then the beer is clearly as young or younger than 2011. No way there is 2010 beer inside there. It works sometimes. For other breweries, they put difficult to read batch codes in yellow ink that is hard to read somewhere on the neck of the bottle. If it doesn't say a date, then you can post what you find on ratebeer.com or something and people can help you out with the bottle date.

In general, most breweries don't bottle date and they should. It's really annoying for IPAs to continuously get old, stale bottles. So I usually just drink IPAs I know are mega fresh or drink them at the brewery. Even kegs inside bars are typically stale I've found.

For Budweiser, etc, their BORN ON date and stuff is more of a gimmick. Budweiser is pasteurized and so are most macro pale lagers. They will not really go bad over time unless they are stored incorrectly. For real beer, most have residual sugar and residual yeast; so over time the yeast can evolve in the bottle like a living organism, i.e. "real" beer. This can be good or bad. Bad in that a living beer can become infected over time but unwanted organisms that were dormant during the fermentation process and take a long time to do their dirtywork. Good in that a living beer will change character over time, sometimes becoming more complex and mellowing out or actually increasing in intensity. Just depends on the beer and what you are looking for. Budweiser, being pasteurized, cannot change fundamentally in the can overtime. But certain tastes like metals, tin, soap can happen from long storage.

There's a lot more, but see how that helps and post any more questions you might have.

GT

tarheels86

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2012, 03:19:33 PM »
First, all beers are not created the same: Budweiser, Coors, and the like will not age well. They are meant to be drank immediately and only last 2-3 months. That is why the big brewers have made such a big deal about things like "Born on Date." The beers that do age well are big IPAs, Barleywines, Strong Belgian Ales, Imperials Stouts, Lambics, and Old Ales. These brews tend to mature and gain complexity as they age. The tannins and hop bite mellows and the malt character takes on a rich caramel character in IPAs and Imperial brews, while Belgian Ales tend to get thicker and more robust. Lambics are a special category all their own, most are not even released for consumption until they have aged for three or more years.
Again, aging a DIPA is possible but why? You should just go for barleywine if you want something malt forward, high alcohol, and high IBUs. An old DIPA will physically age correctly, abv and hop alpha acids will stave off infection, but will just taste like sugar, cheesecloth, and astringent nut shells. I would say they get much more tannic as hop oils are not there to offset the malt husk tannins. And if the beer is even tannic to begin with, that is a brewing flaw and I'd avoid that beer at all costs in the future.

Like I said with infection and living yeast, if there is residual sugar in the bottled beer, then fresh it will have "thickness" and body precisely from residual sugar. But aged long enough, if the beer is not pasteurized and has living yeast, then some organism will eat this remaining sugar, drain that "body", and the result will be a thin body. No way for it to become thicker over time.

Lambics are just a whole different ball game. Yup they can be bottled in 2012 but have been brewed in 2010 since they evolve rapidly and become almost undoubtedly better with age but will peak around 10 years for the best lambics. That's really the only beer style that can be aged like wine. Old Ale/Barleywine, even the best will not be good after 5 years in my experience. Again, because a chewy malty beer will essentially lose body with age. Lambic is different because there are ZERO residual sugars in lambic by the definition of the style. So impossible for those beers already infected with a plethora of wild yeast to become "infected" again over time.



Beer should be stored upright, not on its side like wine. Since many craft beers have yeast in the bottle, lying it on its side will introduce a yeast ring on the side of the bottle. While this is not particularly harmful, it is ugly. The harmful part comes in if the beer is corked. Beer in contact with a cork can pick up some off flavors that may ruin the overall experience. Just keep them upright, they will be fine.
I mean...if the beer is corked and caged like champagne, then side or upright is fine. Doesn't matter. Storage temp and sunlight matters. Wine will become corked occasionally and so will beer, but upright will ensure the cork shrinks will long age and the beer/wine will be 100% ruined vs perhaps ruined sideways. For me, all bottled beers in caps gets stored upright and all cork & caged lambics are stored sideways.

Bottom line is that craft beers fair much better on the shelf than mass-produced beers. But, care does need to be taken to protect their flavors. Store-keepers need to watch stock turns and try to rotate older stock out. One way you can ensure you have fresh beer is to purchase directly from the brewer or to ask your provider how long the beer has been on the shelf. A good proprietor will be able to give you an approximate idea.
I would disagree. Craft beer is usually still living and more delicate. Over time, it is more likely with a batch of craft beers that there are infected bottles, overcarbonated bottles, undercarbonated bottles, gushing bottles, etc vs pasteurized macro beers which are forced carbonated and dosed with chemicals. They will all be identical in ten years. If you are stocking a bomb shelter with beer, I'd choose Bud Light 100% over Bell's Oberon.

Beer30

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2012, 03:32:42 PM »
I wanted to register just to say what an awesome picture of Justen!  In his defense we had slept about 3 hours out of the past 72 hours trying to get the store open on time.

But in reality, thanks everyone for the support so far.  Thanks to those that have stopped by, thanks to those that have spread the word, and thanks to those that have welcomed us to King St.

BridgeTroll

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2012, 03:39:21 PM »
Thanks for all the info tarheels86 and Gonzo!  All this beer talk makes me... thirsty!  Cheers! 8)
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If_I_Loved_you

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2012, 04:07:52 PM »
I don't drink beer or any alcohol at all but if I was to buy beer for a friend. How long would this type of beer be good for?

Dog Walker

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Re: BEER:30 Opens on King Street!
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2012, 08:23:57 PM »
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!"  - Benjamen Franklin
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