Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[ben says]

I don't live in Avondale.  I've never had to park more than one block away from my desired destination.  Call me weird, but I've also purposely parked on one end to walk the entire strip just for entertainment and window shopping.  As a customer, parking is a none issue for me.  If you want to really see a parking problem, try finding a space in some of Washington DC's neighborhoods.

+1.

Tried to park in Georgetown a few months back. Took an hour, 20 dollars, and a fat headache. Parking woes aside, nobody is bitching that Georgetown has changed in its flavor, appeal, or integrity.

[stephendare]

Perhaps the alleged angry neighbors of avondale (whose existence is completely speculative at this point---all we have is a restaurant owner and a highly confused environmentalist trying to conjure them in to the conversation.  The only residents who have spoken up in this conversation don't seem to care about the issue.) should put decals on their cars so that they can be banned from parking in any other part of the city as well.

[Dashing Dan]

Dashing Dan, what is the max seating size that MM can go into that space without going beyond the guidelines, in your opinion.  Also, what formula are you using to determine maximum seating size for the two buildings involved?

At this point my opinion is irrelevant.  Those type questions should be addressed by the applicant and then presented to the city for review, with input from affected stakeholders.

What is the factual maximum number then?  I also assume if they meet these requirements then the opposition goes away?

At that point there would be a normal process of give and take, as opposed to the so-called give and take that was attempted at the community meeting last week.

[Kaiser Soze]

Call me weird, but I've also purposely parked on one end to walk the entire strip just for entertainment and window shopping. 

So weird.  Why would you want to walk a pedestrian friendly commercial area?  Craziness.

[stephendare]

Dashing Dan, what is the max seating size that MM can go into that space without going beyond the guidelines, in your opinion.  Also, what formula are you using to determine maximum seating size for the two buildings involved?

At this point my opinion is irrelevant.  Those type questions should be addressed by the applicant and then presented to the city for review, with input from affected stakeholders.

What is the factual maximum number then?  I also assume if they meet these requirements then the opposition goes away?

At that point there would be a normal process of give and take, as opposed to the so-called give and take that was attempted at the community meeting last week.

In other words, you don't know, and you prefer to have it argued out by people who have no professional experience in the industry.  Sounds stellar.

[thelakelander]

At that point there would be a normal process of give and take, as opposed to the so-called give and take that was attempted at the community meeting last week.

Cool.

[fieldafm]

At that point there would be a normal process of give and take, as opposed to the so-called give and take that was attempted at the community meeting last week.

With all due respect, that sounds completely arbitrary and subjective.  If you go so far as to have a public meeting to be transparent and open about the options available.. why be so uncommitted when asked to define what the number actually is?


Seems to me, the truth about the situation is the thing that would scare people the most... not this nonsensical smear campaign of racous panty raids coming to invade the neighborhood.

[JeffreyS]

I don't live in Avondale.  I've never had to park more than one block away from my desired destination.  Call me weird, but I've also purposely parked on one end to walk the entire strip just for entertainment and window shopping.  As a customer, parking is a non issue for me.  If you want to really see a parking problem, try finding a space in some of Washington DC's neighborhoods.

In DC I use the Metro and parking is always easy. Perhaps Riverside should put in streetcars.

[Lucasjj]

In the past two weeks I have driven to the following Riveside locations and parked without issue:

Biscottis - Parked directly across the street on St Johns
Ooh La La Nail - Parked in front of Mojo's on St Johns
Tapas That - Parked at Lomax and Oak
Bark - Parked in front of Hawthorne Salon
Alpha Dog - On Park directly across the street

These were all at different times of the day, weekends and weekdays. There was no hassle parking at any of these places despite the "parking problems" that plague Riverside.

[Kay]

In the past two weeks I have driven to the following Riveside locations and parked without issue:

Biscottis - Parked directly across the street on St Johns
Ooh La La Nail - Parked in front of Mojo's on St Johns
Tapas That - Parked at Lomax and Oak
Bark - Parked in front of Hawthorne Salon
Alpha Dog - On Park directly across the street

These were all at different times of the day, weekends and weekdays. There was no hassle parking at any of these places despite the "parking problems" that plague Riverside.

Why aren't you walking or biking?   

[Tacachale]

I seem to recall that this is a long standing rite of passage in Jacksonville, what other American city would tell Walt Disney, "Jacksonville doesn't deal with carnival people!"

Plenty of places have fended off Disney's "carnival people" out of fear of what they'd do to their locality - notable examples are Prince William County, VA; Mineral King, California; and Knot's Berry Farm. And those are examples where Disney was actually interested in building - there was fortunately never any danger of Disney World being built here.

I heard differently.  I was told that the cruise business was always a part of Walt Disney's business plan and that he wanted to be able to easily transport his guests from his parks and resorts to the cruise ships.  That made Jacksonville a better option than Orlando.  He supposedly sent teams to both Jacksonville and Kissimmee/Orlando to scout out properties.  He personally was pulling for Jax, but Orlando turned out to be the more viable option.

If Disney ever actually considered Jacksonville, it would have been as only one of many possible sites around the Florida (and the entire eastern seaboard) they were looking at. We were almost certainly out of the running by the time they considered and rejected Palm Beach in 1960, as we had the exact same issues that made them reject Palm Beach - too many people, too close to the coast - and also a colder winter climate. The cruise ship thing didn't really start until the 1980s, long after Disney himself had died.

[fieldafm]

In the past two weeks I have driven to the following Riveside locations and parked without issue:

Biscottis - Parked directly across the street on St Johns
Ooh La La Nail - Parked in front of Mojo's on St Johns
Tapas That - Parked at Lomax and Oak
Bark - Parked in front of Hawthorne Salon
Alpha Dog - On Park directly across the street

These were all at different times of the day, weekends and weekdays. There was no hassle parking at any of these places despite the "parking problems" that plague Riverside.

Why aren't you walking or biking?   

I see Lucas walking his dogs near King Street all the time.  Perhaps he doesn't bike more often b/c he also has the same problem as I had Sunday morning... no place to lock my bike up 

[Lucasjj]

In the past two weeks I have driven to the following Riveside locations and parked without issue:

Biscottis - Parked directly across the street on St Johns
Ooh La La Nail - Parked in front of Mojo's on St Johns
Tapas That - Parked at Lomax and Oak
Bark - Parked in front of Hawthorne Salon
Alpha Dog - On Park directly across the street

These were all at different times of the day, weekends and weekdays. There was no hassle parking at any of these places despite the "parking problems" that plague Riverside.

Why aren't you walking or biking?   

These were just the places I drove to. I walked to others. Biscottis was the weekend it was raining (we originally were going to walk to Cool Moose), and all the other places were stops on the way home from outside Riverside, so I was already in my car.

[Dashing Dan]

At that point there would be a normal process of give and take, as opposed to the so-called give and take that was attempted at the community meeting last week.

With all due respect, that sounds completely arbitrary and subjective. 

This is planning 101.  Bone up on the basics first, and then start posting again after that.

[Captain Zissou]

I seem to recall that this is a long standing rite of passage in Jacksonville, what other American city would tell Walt Disney, "Jacksonville doesn't deal with carnival people!"

Plenty of places have fended off Disney's "carnival people" out of fear of what they'd do to their locality - notable examples are Prince William County, VA; Mineral King, California; and Knot's Berry Farm. And those are examples where Disney was actually interested in building - there was fortunately never any danger of Disney World being built here.

I heard differently.  I was told that the cruise business was always a part of Walt Disney's business plan and that he wanted to be able to easily transport his guests from his parks and resorts to the cruise ships.  That made Jacksonville a better option than Orlando.  He supposedly sent teams to both Jacksonville and Kissimmee/Orlando to scout out properties.  He personally was pulling for Jax, but Orlando turned out to be the more viable option.

If Disney ever actually considered Jacksonville, it would have been as only one of many possible sites around the Florida (and the entire eastern seaboard) they were looking at. We were almost certainly out of the running by the time they considered and rejected Palm Beach in 1960, as we had the exact same issues that made them reject Palm Beach - too many people, too close to the coast - and also a colder winter climate. The cruise ship thing didn't really start until the 1980s, long after Disney himself had died.

I know, but it was still a part of his vision.  I don't think anyone would deny that he was quite the visionary.