Author Topic: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside  (Read 18848 times)

thelakelander

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #180 on: December 08, 2012, 09:52:09 PM »
The Hallmark incentives for 220 Riverside? $5 million in tax rebates over 20 years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/07/24/mayor-brown-signs-off-on-220-riverside.html

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The fact that the city financed incentives for that project as well has fueled comments by some critics.

“The idea behind incentives is it kick-starts development in an area,” said John Winkler, one of several people who spoke against the legislation at a public hearing last week. “Here we are sort of doubling the project and increasing the amount of redevelopment going on in Brooklyn.”

Isn't this the point of incentives?  Is Winkler against redevelopment in Brooklyn?

duvaldude08

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #181 on: December 09, 2012, 05:34:16 PM »
The Hallmark incentives for 220 Riverside? $5 million in tax rebates over 20 years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/07/24/mayor-brown-signs-off-on-220-riverside.html

Quote
The fact that the city financed incentives for that project as well has fueled comments by some critics.

“The idea behind incentives is it kick-starts development in an area,” said John Winkler, one of several people who spoke against the legislation at a public hearing last week. “Here we are sort of doubling the project and increasing the amount of redevelopment going on in Brooklyn.”

Isn't this the point of incentives?  Is Winkler against redevelopment in Brooklyn?

I dont understand why anyone would be against development any in or around our downtown. Its not like these are some pie in the sky, 50 floor highrise conde dream project. They are just freaking apartments and a damn store. Its funny nobody 'debates" about money being spent on the southside... humm
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Tacachale

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #182 on: December 09, 2012, 06:57:03 PM »
Winkler seems to be the president of the anti-tax group Concerned Taxpayers of Duval County. They speak out fairly regularly against incentives and spending on stuff like this (yes, including on the Southside). Sounds like the journalist was just seeking a contrasting viewpoint.
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thelakelander

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #183 on: December 09, 2012, 09:05:18 PM »
I never heard them speak out to the widening of Butler Boulevard, the construction of SR 9B or the Outer Beltway. 

Spence

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #184 on: December 10, 2012, 12:44:00 AM »
Please pardon any rudeness perceived,
however i DO speak out against these residential dwellings being constricted of wood.

I care not if the "store" is a fresh market or a newer wally world concept.

I just find it ridiculous that some will clamour to turn dirt with a photog and golden shovel in hand to make a buck because as we all are experiencing, "nothing transcends the mighty dollar".

I am happy that this new housing development in "brooklyn" will have a grocery close enough so that new prospective residents might be more quickly sold on the idea of living near our Downtown, it just still boggles my mind that RAP isn't literally screaming for streetcar!

I understand holding patterns and engineered data, but some enhancements help most everyone.

Can anyone please opine regarding the sense (if any) behind extending the Skyway overhead toward BCBS, when the maintenance yard is the closest we see to at-grade?

Isn't 220 Riverside at least somewhat more than ideal for a streetcar connection?
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duvaldude08

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #185 on: December 10, 2012, 01:52:14 AM »
Quote

Please pardon any rudeness perceived,
however i DO speak out against these residential dwellings being constricted of wood.



I think this remains to be seen. Has anyone confirmed that its wood?The rendering it looks like stucco? I just dont see anyone building apartments out of wood. Just wouldnt make sense.
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ben says

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #186 on: December 10, 2012, 06:50:38 AM »
Quote

Please pardon any rudeness perceived,
however i DO speak out against these residential dwellings being constricted of wood.



I think this remains to be seen. Has anyone confirmed that its wood?The rendering it looks like stucco? I just dont see anyone building apartments out of wood. Just wouldnt make sense.

Drive down Jtb.  Wood structured apts going up at the town center
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Ocklawaha

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #187 on: December 10, 2012, 01:09:31 PM »
Can anyone please opine regarding the sense (if any) behind extending the Skyway overhead toward BCBS, when the maintenance yard is the closest we see to at-grade?

Isn't 220 Riverside at least somewhat more than ideal for a streetcar connection?

Eventual extension of the Skyway to BCBS makes sense for a couple of reasons. The FACT that the streetcar is likely to turn down Forest Street between either Park or Myrtle (though I prefer Myrtle) means that people riding the streetcar and wanting access to the Southbank, the Brooklyn projects, Everbank or the government center around Hemming Plaza, could easily change at Riverside and Forest to the Skyway.

As for 220 Riverside, a streetcar on Park would be in it's back yard, the other larger development would have streetcar at it's front door if the streetcar uses Park. Otherwise the Skyway having a station at the car barns, and another at Riverside and Forest with an option for yet another somewhere in between, makes the Skyway pretty ideal for a short extension.

Frankly, if the Skyway EVER reached 1. The Stadiums, 2. Shands/VA,  3. Forest and Riverside,  4. San Marco at Atlantic and maybe 5. The farmers market, I would then throw away the shovel and declare the project FINISHED.

Today the Skyway is all exits and no entrances, it can take you from nothing to nowhere, but at least you can't get to anything in between.

fsujax

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #188 on: December 10, 2012, 01:11:00 PM »
Bob, who do you envision the Skyway getting to the Farmers Market? dont you think a streetcar would better serve that area?

thelakelander

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #189 on: December 10, 2012, 03:21:42 PM »
Assuming the S-Line is rebuilt for some form of commuter rail, you'll need a grade separated crossing for a streetcar to access the farmer's market.  With that said, I'm still of the opinion that both a skyway extension to Forest and a streetcar in the same vicinity, connecting DT with Riverside may be overkill at this point.  I wouldn't promote such a project unless there were several other fixed transit corridors in various parts of the city already operational or under construction.

Ocklawaha

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #190 on: December 10, 2012, 03:28:48 PM »
FSUJAX, Check out the aerial views. The Skyway could go due west of it's current terminus at the Jacksonville Terminal. Under the I95 viaduct and up and over the rail yards means the extension of the route would be short and direct.

As you know from our on-line discussions the Skyway's great weakness is that it is all exits and no entries, a farmers market station would tap the entire Woodstock Park area.

Streetcar from Water to Lee to Bay to Myrtle and hence into Riverside sets up Durkeeville for a future car line north along Myrtle. They would share an interchange at the Jacksonville Terminal.

To get streetcar into the Farmers Market would require a line up Myrtle and west on Beaver, there would be considerable expense in going up and over the Beaver Street Viaduct, (the original viaduct had streetcar tracks in it).  Both the Streetcar and the Skyway should run through the length of downtown using different routes. As it is today, it's a long hot walk from Central Station to the Police Station or Maxwell House.

Since the city went ahead with the ill advised Skyway (one I would NEVER have supported) we should seek to add another 4 miles of track to make it a fully functional downtown distributor system and a compliment to our streetcars. Each mode has it's own strong points and going up and over Honeymoon Yard/TTX instead of a roundabout via Myrtle and Beaver.   

I agree with Lake that we should focus on routes with no current service, I'd suggest the 'S' line, Streetcar from Newnan to King Street in Riverside, and Skyway east to the stadium and south into San Marco at Atlantic, as a phase one master plan.

Spence

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #191 on: December 12, 2012, 01:49:07 AM »
^^^
Thanks Ock!
so logical
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ProjectMaximus

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #192 on: December 13, 2013, 03:29:57 AM »
Interesting to look back and see all the speculation and anticipation from a year ago. I wonder if the excitement has stemmed a bit or if it's still growing as we sit here partially through the renaissance.

Cummer Museum Renovation - Complete
Unity Plaza - 50%
220 Riverside - 50%
Shoppes on Riverside  - Initial Construction Stage
Brooklyn Riverside - Initial Construction Stage
YMCA - Initial Construction Stage
Riverside Dog Park - in limbo?

From an email this morning:

Quote
When H. Eric Bolton Jr., chairman and CEO of Mid-America Apartment Communities, looks at new supply of apartments across his markets, he also likes what he sees in the secondary markets.

“Within our large market segment of the portfolio, latest projections suggest a ratio of just over eight jobs to each new unit expected to be delivered next year, which is stronger than the last up-cycle we had over the 2004 to 2007 timeframe,” Bolton told investors in his firm's quarterly conference call. “Within our secondary market segment, the story is even better, with a job growth to new supply ratio projected to be just over 10-to-one in 2013.”

In large markets, Bolton said it's important to drill down into sub-market analysis in order to understand the threats presented by emerging new supply is likely to have at specific locations. He added in a number of the larger markets, new supply is more likely to create pressure on locations in more of the urban or core CBD submarkets.

“Within the secondary markets in general, we just don’t see much new permitting activity taking place and would expect that this segment of our portfolio is more likely to capture improving performance as compared to our large market segment towards the second half of next year,” he added.

As part of a strategy targeting sdecondary markets, Mid-America made its first move into the Kansas City, MO, market over the past year.

“As a consequence of our stepped-up efforts of recycling capital out of some lower margin older investments into higher margin newer investments it just so happens that a lot of our older properties are in some of our secondary and more tertiary markets, and so you’ll be seeing much more active recycling taking place in that particular component of the portfolio. Markets such as Kansas City, San Antonio, Charleston and Savannah, those are some of the secondary markets that we would like to continue to fill out.”

On the development side, Mid-America said it will be deploying capital in Little Rock,AR, Charleston, SC and Jacksonville, FL.

“You’re not going to see us do development in Dallas and Atlanta,” Bolton said. “We’ll let others do that... To the extent that we deploy capital for development, it will be a secondary market focus.”

I guess it is Mid-America after all?
http://www.maac.com/MAA-Community-Sites/Florida/Jacksonville/220-Riverside.aspx

Found one strange tidbit on that website (either they have an inside tip or they are sorely mistaken, lol) under "Community Features" it says
Quote
Just blocks from the Convention Center, home of the Jacksonville Barracudas
http://www.maac.com/MAA-Community-Sites/Florida/Jacksonville/220-Riverside/220-Riverside%20Community%20Features.aspx

Noone

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #193 on: December 13, 2013, 06:06:28 AM »
Interesting to look back and see all the speculation and anticipation from a year ago. I wonder if the excitement has stemmed a bit or if it's still growing as we sit here partially through the renaissance.

Cummer Museum Renovation - Complete
Unity Plaza - 50%
220 Riverside - 50%
Shoppes on Riverside  - Initial Construction Stage
Brooklyn Riverside - Initial Construction Stage
YMCA - Initial Construction Stage
Riverside Dog Park - in limbo?



PM, nice list just wanted to add these observations to what has happened and what is occurring.

Cummer Museum- Did they take advantage of an opportunity to access this from the River? An opportunity LOST.

Unity Plaza- Celebration of a unique retention pond. Nothing wrong with that.

YMCA- Kayak logo at Sydney Geffen park? Expanded access to the River?

thelakelander

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Re: A Closer Look At 220 Riverside
« Reply #194 on: December 13, 2013, 06:26:00 AM »
Interesting to look back and see all the speculation and anticipation from a year ago. I wonder if the excitement has stemmed a bit or if it's still growing as we sit here partially through the renaissance.

Cummer Museum Renovation - Complete
Unity Plaza - 50%
220 Riverside - 50%
Shoppes on Riverside  - Initial Construction Stage
Brooklyn Riverside - Initial Construction Stage
YMCA - Initial Construction Stage
Riverside Dog Park - in limbo?

The excitement is still there and that's a pretty good ratio of proposed projects finding a way off the paper into reality. However, new construction takes time. It will be another year before these projects are complete and even then, it's only the beginning.