Adverse Posession. Florida's Squatter Rights cause Proliferation in Court Cases

[AP Guy]

Amen Non redneck yes - I cannot say it any better -ty

[AP Guy]

Sounds like what happened to the Dr. Horace Drew house. Is that the house you are AP'ing?

No - have not seen that name in all my research.

BUT... that is interesting that out of the big ol internet, you know of a similar situation in this tiny thread. Makes me wonder if this could be going on all over???

[AP Guy]

I am surprised to see some of our other 'conservative' posters be such positive cheerleaders for the concept of stealing property.  If we don't believe in the concept of private ownership, then what are we after all?

We are ap law abiding citizens get it?

[AP Guy]

Hey - Ya'll know what I what I really want to learn?
How to do a real in depth title search. I already know about clerk of court online public records.
That would help me tremendously. Any one care to divulge or link to the right place? PM if you'd like

[AP Guy]

Hey ChrisGator  or anyone - Im looking into the tax deeds more.....look at the excerpt below.
My question is: is there any law that a tax deed certificate holder can use to buy and keep the property instead of "requesting a sale to satisfy" thereby sending it to county auction.

A tax certificate must be held for a minimum of two (2) years but not more than seven (7) years. At any time between the second and seventh year, the certificate holder may request the sale of the property to satisfy the certificate. The certificate holder must apply for the tax deed sale by presenting the original certificate to the Tax Collector. For more information about tax certificates, you should contact the County Tax Collector’s office.
 
The Tax Collector certifies the tax deed application and forwards the application to the Clerk. The Clerk’s fee is $60.00 for each application. Additional cost for advertising, sheriff’s service fees, and certified mail fees must also be paid before the sale date is set.
 
Once all sale costs have been paid, the Clerk sets a sale date, notifies the certificate holder, the property owner, and all lien holders, and the sale is then held in accordance with Florida Statute 197.
 
Notices of pending tax deed sales are published in a newspaper with local circulation. Tax deed files are available on the Clerk's website.

[ChriswUfGator]

You have to go bid on it once you force the sale. In this economy the auctions aren't that competitive, picking it up like that will almost certainly be cheaper than the cost of conducting a trial with expert witnesses to establish your AP claim, which I guarantee you will fail in the end anyway. Plus you have 3 years in it this way, instead of 7. If you're going to do it, go the tax deed route. FYI, if you have a particular house you're targeting, there is nothing stopping you from accumulating prior years' certificates directly from whoever bought them. Effectively, there is no reason you even have to wait the 3 years if the buyers of prior years' certificates will sell those to you. This AP thing is utter nonsense, I promise you're wasting your time with it.

I see Stephen has been asking the same question I asked but never got an answer to; Show me one single case where one of these squatters has been awarded a free house. If this is such a slam-dunk legal strategy, why has it never worked even once? I think even the Twinkie Defense managed to get someone manslaughter instead of murder, but this AP nonsense has never worked even once. And I don't mean accidentally putting a fence 4" on your neighbor's property, which is what the statute is supposed to be used for. I mean squatting.

[ChriswUfGator]

Also let me clarify, the actual public tax foreclosure auctions aren't that competitive, the tax lien auctions are pretty competitive, since the banks have (naturally) gotten in on buying tax liens and securitizing them. But once you get into it, you can overpay way above what they will, making 0% return, and it won't matter since your goal is getting the property not making 5% interest off a tax deed. And with these, one way or the other you'll always get your principal back, you're not really going to lose money on the tax certificates.

[AP Guy]

one more thing I remembered today is that some banks are having difficulty actually "producing the note" so that they can claim property. That could potentially be one more point that works in my favor.

After a day learning all kinds of stuff, I'm convinced AP is going to be huge whether for or against. I want to start an asset protection company, but I need an partner/investor. You be the money, I'll be the muscle. anyone?...... way I see it is we could charge 200k per year to secure properties and defend adverse possession claims. You could justify that cost in any number of ways. If we protect eight 50k houses or four 100k houses the prop owner has 100 ROI%. just think there are thousands. I have other ideas to spin off of this also.

[ChriswUfGator]

one more thing I remembered today is that some banks are having difficulty actually "producing the note" so that they can claim property. That could potentially be one more point that works in my favor.

After a day learning all kinds of stuff, I'm convinced AP is going to be huge whether for or against. I want to start an asset protection company, but I need an partner/investor. You be the money, I'll be the muscle. anyone?...... way I see it is we could charge 200k per year to secure properties and defend adverse possession claims. You could justify that cost in any number of ways. If we protect eight 50k houses or four 100k houses the prop owner has 100 ROI%. just think there are thousands. I have other ideas to spin off of this also.

It won't help you if the bank can't produce the note. That may raise a defense for the lawful owner who can move to dismiss under FRCP 1.130 or argue lack of standing or failure to attach an indespensible party, but it does nothing for you since your possession is nothing more than an unlawful detainer, you have no cognizable interest that would be defensible in a foreclosure action between the mortgage holder and the rightful owner. The foreclosure will long since be done and over with before you get to your 7 years on the AP claim.

And I am still waiting on you AP'ers to answer Stephen's question. Why, when this law has been on the books for 100+ years, and this strategy is obviously so brilliant, can't you guys find a single house anywhere in the state that has ever been awarded to a squatter claiming adverse possession? It certainly can't be for lack of trying, this nonsense is in the news constantly.

And FWIW, I'm not sure you could call yourself a trendsetter, this law goes back to the 1800s.

[ChriswUfGator]

And as far as defending adverse possession claims, I don't think this market is going to be anywhere near as booming as you seem to expect. None of these are going to succeed in court, regardless of whether the property is "protected" or not. The claims are totally invalid, regardless of whether they're squatting in the house or not.

[AP Guy]

Re: finding a case to support AP, there may not be one that deals with a home in this type of squatter/residential situation. That is what I was referring to as being the trendsetter. I have no problem with being the 1st to ride it out. But I have never been 1st at anything, so I bet that before my 7 years is up, that someone else's 7 years will come due, which may set a precedent that I may or may not want to follow. I'm 100% confident that in 7 years I could self represent before a court and win if the owner never comes forward (thats a big IF).

I think the reason such a specific case cannot be found is that there has never been such a real estate/foreclosure/homeless/overpopulated time like the one we are in now and will only become more intense with time. Just like they changed the senate bill in july, if when squatters learn,  it will cause the APers show up in strong numbers. greedy ones taking multiple sites, slowing down courts,  they may be forced to make changes again depending on lobbyist I suppose.

Just this last week Sean Hannity (or maybe Glenn Beck?) was re playing the clip from Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur "So I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes," said Congresswoman Kaptur before the House of Representatives. "Don't you leave."

so more and more squatters will have disposable income to notoriously improve properties, and discuss things on the internet.

[AP Guy]

Update* just checked local PA site - new tax rolls 2011 are released. Targeted property lost 10,143 of assessed value. now "assessed" at just over 30. but its beat to hell and really maybe worth 15k at market

Meanwhile.....
Four groups operating in Broward and Palm Beach counties filed at least 198 adverse possession claims in an attempt to take over $28 million in real estate from January 2009 through March 2010. The properties ranged from a North Lauderdale condo valued at $15,260 to a Hollywood home assessed at $1.3 million. In some cases, the possession claims were later withdrawn.

My point being I am looking at a 30k house - no one will ever even notice me.

[ChriswUfGator]

Re: finding a case to support AP, there may not be one that deals with a home in this type of squatter/residential situation. That is what I was referring to as being the trendsetter. I have no problem with being the 1st to ride it out. But I have never been 1st at anything, so I bet that before my 7 years is up, that someone else's 7 years will come due, which may set a precedent that I may or may not want to follow. I'm 100% confident that in 7 years I could self represent before a court and win if the owner never comes forward (thats a big IF).

I think the reason such a specific case cannot be found is that there has never been such a real estate/foreclosure/homeless/overpopulated time like the one we are in now and will only become more intense with time. Just like they changed the senate bill in july, if when squatters learn,  it will cause the APers show up in strong numbers. greedy ones taking multiple sites, slowing down courts,  they may be forced to make changes again depending on lobbyist I suppose.

Just this last week Sean Hannity (or maybe Glenn Beck?) was re playing the clip from Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur "So I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes," said Congresswoman Kaptur before the House of Representatives. "Don't you leave."

so more and more squatters will have disposable income to notoriously improve properties, and discuss things on the internet.

Well, the congresswoman was talking to victims of wrongful foreclosures. I don't suppose she was counseling people to break into somebody else's random vacant house that you'd never owned or lived in and just squat in it, do you? That dosn't seem like her intent. But still, that's not my issue, my only point is legally you are exposing yourself to criminal liability for a strategy that ultimately will not succeed. I was just pointing out that you may want to reconsider. I don't own any vacant properties, it doesn't bother me one way or the other, personally. By all means, you guys get together and knock yourselves out.

[ChriswUfGator]

Update* just checked local PA site - new tax rolls 2011 are released. Targeted property lost 10,143 of assessed value. now "assessed" at just over 30.

Meanwhile.....
Four groups operating in Broward and Palm Beach counties filed at least 198 adverse possession claims in an attempt to take over $28 million in real estate from January 2009 through March 2010. The properties ranged from a North Lauderdale condo valued at $15,260 to a Hollywood home assessed at $1.3 million. In some cases, the possession claims were later withdrawn.

My point being I am looking at a 30k house - no one will ever even notice me.

Well alright then, at this point after 4 pages, nobody can claim we didn't warn you. Have fun.

[AP Guy]

yeh we about beat this to death already
If you like to keep it interesting:
if/when I get arrested and/or evicted I will buy you and a guest an all inclusive dinner at the best place in town along with a framed autographed picture of my mug shot or belongings in the street.

If I go 7 years and satisfy all conditions, you prepare and file my quiet title at your expense.

Contingent upon if I actually file for AP - planned for April 2nd 2012