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Author Topic: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service  (Read 6641 times)

JHAT76

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2011, 05:58:53 PM »
If they wanted some riders the ycould have had 1 - 2 buses in the AM and afternoon make the trip from the FSCJ point all the way and loop down Jefferson past LaVilla School.  Plenty of kids from the area who could use a ride to school on that route.  3 - 4 on my block alone within walking distance of a current riverside trolley stop.

JTA never really tried to adjust some routes and take advantage of new riders created by the removal of buses for magnet students.

I forgot your last question, exnewsman.

Why don't I like the new loop?  Let's see.... 

#1)  I don't have any daily business at the courthouse, hopefully if you do it's because you work there. 

#2)  I don't live in 5pts.  Honestly if you don't live at the condos on Oak St. or behind publix on Riverside, this line isn't coming by your house.  Which, BTW, you can refer back to #1

#3)  They (JTA) is complaining about not having the ridership that was projected.  Now it's not going through a residential area and will be unable to carry people from their homes to retail.  It's great if you want some sushi after you get out of court, but that's about it.   

#4)  According to the driver that I chatted with all the time (he has since been removed from the RST), they are genuinely trying to kill the route.  If they can prove that no one uses it, they won't have to provide the service anymore, and what better way to lower your ridership?

#5)  Have the trolley go from where no one lives to where no one needs or wants to go on a daily basis is just plain assinine, unless...  See the last sentence on #4

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2011, 09:39:43 PM »
2016 = gas tax expiration = 1/3 loss of JTA operating revenue = forced makeover!


Why would you fund public transit from a gas tax anyway. You want more people to use public transit which reduces private vehicles usage, which lowers gas tax revenue. Less revenue for public transit. Doesn't seem to make any sense.


Extra revenue? Let me count the ways.

Quote
Seal Beach, Calif. (May 5, 2011) — Clean Energy Fuels Corp. (Nasdaq: CLNE) has signed long-term agreements with four major airport complexes in four states to design, build, own and operate new compressed natural gas (“CNG”) stations to support ground transport vehicles and off-airport parking shuttles. The new Clean Energy stations, available 24/7 for public access, will be located in Tampa, Florida; New York City, New York; New Orleans, Louisiana; and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Seal Beach, CA (April 27, 2011) — Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) has awarded Clean Energy Fuels Corp. (Nasdaq: CLNE) a $40-million contract to design and build four new compressed natural gas (CNG) stations to support the transition of DART’s fixed route and paratransit bus fleet to 100% CNG power. The project will also will include two building modifications for maintenance facilities.

While I agree that such a tax might reduce vehicle usage, the reduction in auto usage would result in less wear and maintenance on the highway system and less air pollution. Thus a single source not only builds and maintains highways, it lowers maintenance costs and promotes cleaner air, all in the process of supporting mass transit. While doubling the ridership of JTA wouldn't make a ding in the perception of the daily traffic jam, 10 million less autos on the roads would certainly give us a bump on the bottom line.

There are many creative ways for JTA to increase it's income, but the city and state's reluctance to pioneer any concept prevents us from hearing it. I've tossed several ideas out that could make JTA self sufficient or close to it, idea's that I doubt they even remember. You know you've made an impact when their faces glaze over and the crickets start chirping.


OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 10:05:56 PM by Ocklawaha »

fieldafm

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2011, 09:03:42 AM »
Let me also recap what the neighborhood did do:

-Convinced JTA to do a test run at Art Walk-Ridership went through the roof two out of the three times this was tried.  The third time was cold and rainy. I personally ate dinner at Cafe NOLA that night and there were 6 vendors in all of Hemming Plaza and the streets were bare... meaning, no one showed up at Art Walk that night.

-Convinced JTA to get out in the neighborhood and promote the trolley service and run a free service day-Single biggest ridership day they had

-Made the RAP Home Tour part of the Riverside Trolley route-Ridership spikes to very high levels

-Downtown stakeholders meet with JTA about extending service to Bay Street on weekend nights like the Beaches Trolley system gets(who btw averages LESS riders per hour than Riverside Trolley).  JTA never followsup with a promised second meeting.

-Riverside/Avondale advocates meet with JTA regarding several items:
*Thur-Sat evening hours-response was until ridership improves we won't do that

*Eliminate one of the 7 routes that touch Park Street and extend a secondary RT loop on Park so that the RT reaches more people-we already have ample service along Park Street(which is true as long as you want to go to Rosa Parks or the former Normandy Mall)

*A plan in hand with buy-in from local merchants about extending a direct merchant-based transit program with a bulk ticket program(done in other cities btw, with fantastic results in capturing choice riders)-response union bus drivers would never hand out tickets or validate any type of ticket*  BTW, they turned their back on the beaches merchants in year 2 of the Beaches Trolley service and advertising revenue and rideship drops

*A plan for RT-specific month-long discounted passes-response, yes we want to do that, guess we will be waiting for a very long time now that they are eliminating what was the Riverside Trolley.  BTW, the new plan is to terminate the trolley at the new courthouse, not the Landing. 

-It has been said here and said many, many times to JTA by anyone who would speak up... but the route, headways and the terminus at FSCJ were all mistakes and not convenient to anyone.  That was ignored.

-MetroJacksonville demonstrates a successful project with three months straight of successful trolley pub crawls, in part to demonstrate to JTA that evening service connecting vibrant entertainment/commercial nodes together works(as if you can't go to any city with a functioning transit system and witness this).

But hey, these are the smartest guys in the room... nothing to see here, move along.

There are about 5 senior people at JTA that get it.  Otherwise, the senior leadership team needs to be replaced.  And it needs to happen today.

Word has come out today that they will not only be reducing service, but INCREASING FARE on the Riverside Trolley(or what should be called the Courthouse Trolley as this will now terminate at the new Courthouse and not the Landing).

There is a public input meeting on November 2nd, but if you read what I've quoted... talking to JTA will frankly get you nowhere.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2011, 09:22:58 AM »
Umm....why is it ending at the new courthouse, which is on the edge of downtown?  Why not do a loop with Forsyth & Laura that ties the courthouse in with the Landing and Riverside?  On the surface, this revised route makes little sense and goes the concept of having popular destinations with a mix of uses at both ends.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2011, 09:23:39 AM »
The fare increase isn't just for the trolley - it's across the board.



So why should they care about the gas tax expiration when they can just hike the rates 50% per trip.  The most unfortunate part is the riders who don't have another option - the monthly passers, so to speak - they are getting hit with a 25% increase - from $40/month to $50/month. 

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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »
Umm....why is it ending at the new courthouse, which is on the edge of downtown?  Why not do a loop with Forsyth & Laura that ties the courthouse in with the Landing and Riverside?  On the surface, this revised route makes little sense and goes the concept of having popular destinations with a mix of uses at both ends.

This has been argued ad naseum in another thread, or maybe even this one, either way the answer is the same - because we at JTA really don't give a shit.
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thelakelander

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2011, 09:33:27 AM »
Where is the skyway's fare cost?  Are they making it free?

fieldafm

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2011, 09:47:59 AM »
Quote
So why should they care about the gas tax expiration when they can just hike the rates 50% per trip.

To be fare these increased fares won't even come close to matching the revenue from the gas tax. 

I've officially given up on the Riverside Trolley.  We've proven that transit will work to attract choice riders if you make it relevant.  Relying on JTA isn't the answer.  I think the neighborhood has an innovative idea in regards to parking/transportation... I plan on seeing this idea come to fruition.  To get anything done, you have to do it yourself around here. 

Lake, I finally get it when you talk about cutting JTA out of the fixed transit game.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2011, 09:48:14 AM »
Where is the skyway's fare cost?  Are they making it free?

I called JTA about that and their official stance was, "What skyway?"  ::)
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peestandingup

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2011, 09:49:02 AM »
Umm....why is it ending at the new courthouse, which is on the edge of downtown?  Why not do a loop with Forsyth & Laura that ties the courthouse in with the Landing and Riverside?  On the surface, this revised route makes little sense and goes the concept of having popular destinations with a mix of uses at both ends.

This has been argued ad naseum in another thread, or maybe even this one, either way the answer is the same - because we at JTA really don't give a shit.

Because that giant courthouse is all that matters downtown & only poor people (the courthouse's big revenue generators) use public transportation. Didn't you get the memo??

tufsu1

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2011, 09:49:13 AM »
good question about the Skway Lake

now, to the fare increase....$1 was too low, but you can't jump 50% in one shot...St. Johns County (which also has a $1 fare) is considering increasing to $1.25 next year and $1.50 about five years later

fsujax

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2011, 09:56:54 AM »
Non-Redneck Westsider, who did you talk to at JTA????

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2011, 09:58:30 AM »
Just a bit of sarcasm FSUJax (I think) ;)
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peestandingup

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2011, 10:07:14 AM »
Usually when you increase fares, it's also because the public is getting a better service as well. It's a give & take.

Last I checked, the overall service is as bad as ever. Still an hour wait on buses, still no shelters, still no way to track where the buses are, still duplicate routes, still no skyway extensions that would actually make it useful (or solid plans for breaking ground on streetcars), etc etc.

So it's all take & no give here. Welcome to transit in Jacksonville. Where you'll pay big city fares for garbage service.

Dashing Dan

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Re: JTA Cutting Riverside Trolley Service
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2011, 10:09:41 AM »
The big news here is that the fare for all trolleys will be $1.50. 

The downtown trolleys are free now, so this could be a deal breaker for lots of people in our "walkable" downtown.

I could never figure out why they killed the Laura Ocean trolley in 2009.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 10:13:04 AM by Dashing Dan »
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.  - Benjamin Franklin