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With the real estate boom of the new century now over, Metro Jacksonville takes a look at major proposed projects that died or were indefinitely delayed.
Ambassador Hotel 
Adaptive reuse project turning the six story structure into 50 apartments. - Dead
Brooklyn Park 
- Historic building fabric demolished last year, but project appears to be indefinitely Delayed. East San Marco 
Mixed use development featuring an urban Publix, 147 residential units and 24,000 square feet of retail. - Delayed
8th & Pearl 
Three story mixed use infill project in Springfield. - Dead
Jacksonville Landing Redevelopment 
Renovation and expansion of the Jacksonville Landing. Project included opening the courtyard up to Laura Street, condominiums and a high rise on the east lot. - Dead Jones Furniture Building 
Adaptive reuse project converting the abandoned 7 story building into law offices. - Dead The Laura Trio 
Proposed restoration of Jacksonville's oldest highrise towers into office condominiums. To keep these buildings from crumbling to the ground, the city should attempt to correctly seal these structures. - Dead.
Laura Trio Garage 
This project is part of Cameron Kuhn's failed attempt at revitalizing several downtown buildings. - Dead Liberty Lofts 
The conversion of the old Chevrolet Parts Warehouse into 29 apartment lofts. - Dead
The Lofts at East Union 
10 floor, 73 unit condominium tower - Dead
Main Street Lofts 
The conversion of the abandoned Cadillac Building into residential lofts. - Dead
Ocean Square 
A 12 story condo tower with a movie theater and retail at street level. This project required demolishing the Haydon Burns Library. - Dead Oak Street Lofts 
An infill mixed use structure with 8 lofts in Five Points. This project recieved heavy opposition from the Riverside community because of a lack of parking. - Dead
Old JEA Tower 
This ambitous project would have renovated the old JEA Tower and added an additional structure on one side. - Dead One12 
Adaptive reuse of the 18 story Barnett Building into 105 residential lofts. Construction ended when Kuhn's empire came crumbling down. - Dead
Ortega Yacht Club 
A 20 story, 80 unit condominium tower on the Ortega River - Delayed
Park View Inn 
The conversion of the blighted Park View Inn into 100 affordable condominiums. - Dead
Redell/Dancy Terrace 
The redevelopment of a blighted block of Springfield into a 24 home historic cottage community. - Dead
Residences of Bishopgate 
A 19 story, 80 unit condominium tower in Five Points. - Dead
River Watch at City Centre 
A 35 floor tower with 200 residential condo units and 200 hotel units. - Dead
The St. James Hotel & Residences 
A 68 story with five star 169 unit hotel and 469 residential condominiums. - Dead
The St. John 
A 582'tall, 51 floor tower with 300 residential units. - Indefinitely postponed St. Johns Point 
Four towers (36, 33, 30, & 15), 840 residential units and 222,000 square feet of retail and office space. - Dead
St. Johns Village 
A 21 story, 216 unit condominium tower along with 20,000 square feet of retail. - Dead San Marco Riverfront District 
A 25 acre urban mixed use development featuring a 10 acre riverfront park, 2,000 residential units and 565,000 square feet of retail and office space. - Dead
San Marco Village
Six towers (48, 48, 48, 42, 59, 9 story hotel), 2,000 residential units and 177,800 square feet of retail space. - Dead
The Shipyards
A 38 story tower with 328 units. Riverwalk improvements are still being made, but tower component is Dead.
6th & Market 
Restoration and expansion of abandoned Springfield building into residences above street retail. - Dead 605 West Beaver Street 
The conversion of abandoned LaVilla Building into lofts with street retail. - Dead
Springfield Arts Center
The conversion of an abandoned warehouse into 33,000 square feet of loft office space. - Dead
SRG - West 7th Street 
The development of infill loft condominium project in Springfield. - Dead 323 Duval 
12 story 123,000 square foot office tower with street retail space. Indefinitely postponed (contingent on courthouse)
200 Riverside 
A 111,300 square feet of office space and 250 residential units. - proposed 2008 ground breaking (the clock is ticking)
218 Lofts 
Adaptive reuse project to convert an abandoned office building into residential lofts. - Dead 241 Ashley Street 
A five story, 26,000 square foot office building. - Delayed
The Vu 
A 40 story, 190 unit residential condominium tower. - Indefinitely postponed
YMCA / St. Joe Tower (Not pictured) This 17 story condominium tower would have replaced the Riverside Avenue YMCA. - Dead
Next: Current Proposals
Article by Ennis Davis & Jason Sharpe |
October 3, 2008, 8:59 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
As depressing as this list is, I'm still stoked that the previous article was chock full of great projects that did get built.
The projects I was REALLY looking forward to was the Riverwatch Tower, Shipyards, and Brooklyn Park. Those three would have had the greatest impacts on not only the skyline, but on the potential to spawn more development on adjacent properties.
October 3, 2008, 9:02 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Seeing these pictures I am reminded of the optimism of a few years ago. Hopefully we get to a point where some of these projects become reality.
October 3, 2008, 9:43 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
What's with the 200 Riverside monstrosity? Fingers crossed that thing doesn't wind up marring Riverside Ave.
October 3, 2008, 9:47 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
October 3, 2008, 9:49 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
A really loud voice in my head is saying something to me...how many of these projects were hurried along to the grave by the fact that our city and it's leaders are impossible to deal with? It seems those in power have a single mantra when it comes to downtown development: More parking lots, no creative mass-transit, and everyone go home after 5pm!
It's inexplicable, and if we care about our downtown, we need to start holding these people accountable. They are employed at our discretion, after all.
October 3, 2008, 9:53 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Which project had the rooftop restaurant and bar? I really wish we could have one here, as they're pretty cool when the weather's nice (check out Charleston for a good example).
October 3, 2008, 10:24 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
While I'm a bit relieved some of the projects didn't move forward, it's a bit depressing to see all that could have been.
October 3, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Although I think that was just rooftop common space, the project was "8th & Pearl" in Springfield.
October 3, 2008, 10:31 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Makes me want to cry, especially the projects in Springfield which is my stomping ground. A number of these projects fueled my early optimism as a downtown denizen. Now, like the stock market, my moods are up and down about the prospects for the future.
October 3, 2008, 10:49 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Although I think that was just rooftop common space, the project was "8th & Pearl" in Springfield.
Actually a majority of the rooftop space was in fact to be leased and operated by a restaurant/bar below...
October 3, 2008, 10:53 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I guess you learn something new everyday. Its unfortunate that this project is now a no go. It would have been a huge boost for Springfield.
October 3, 2008, 12:01 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Geez, very depressing. Not to pour salt on the wounds, but could you imagine how awesome our downtown and surrounding areas would've been had ALL of these projects were completed? But then again, could you imagine the traffic downtown?
October 3, 2008, 12:48 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I hadn't seen a few of these, Ocean Square is one of those rare cases where the plan looks far better then what we have. Though I love history, the Burns Library can't touch that for style.
Otherwise the St. John, Shipyards, St. James, JEA and City Center-Landing would indeed change downtown forever.
However take heart Jacksonville, we still have a full deck of cards to play if our leadership will lead (or just get out of the way).
CARD ONE: That new Courthouse will spur a rash of new development all through the neighborhood as large construction attracts more construction.
CARD TWO: We also have a very unique item in the Skyway, and used to our advantage, rather then sitting back - arms folded - saying NOT ONE MORE CENT, would attract many new faces to our development picture. Imagine the Shipyards or __________ being able to seek out new investors with the perk that we'll get an internal Skyway station. Simply lay out the route to the stadium or Riverside and get that land and those projects before the $$.
CARD THREE: Water taxi service to YOUR PROJECT, "Ya know, fellas we've been looking for a space to land 50-60 passengers at a time... such a deal."
CARD FOUR: That streetcar study, get those rails moving NOW, we can't stand in line forever waiting to do... we'll talk this to death, or we'll ride to victory. Remember about 80% of all TOD is Light Rail Related.
CARD FIVE: A darling NFL team, great location, fantastic weather, and this financial crash won't-can't last forever... Hey and if it does, and it all ends in war-smoke and ruin, give us about 7 years and JESUS will have some great financial plans!
OCKLAWAHA
October 3, 2008, 12:55 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
probably none!
October 3, 2008, 12:57 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
probably none!
i have to vote with dknighton here.
October 3, 2008, 1:06 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I believe the Shipyards property is no longer in city control. There was a deal a few years ago that ended up with LandMar taking over all 44 acres. They had a pretty impressive development planned that went up in smoke when the market turned sour.
October 3, 2008, 1:46 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Can the Landing redevelopment failure be directly attributed to John Peyton?
October 3, 2008, 2:05 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Im curious "Stug" what would be marred on Riverside ave...
That project looks like a really nice one...
Oh yeah it would mar the view of another of the plethora of empty lots in and around downtown...
You never see people on the streets of these areas but there IS NOTHING BUT VACANT LOTS....
October 3, 2008, 2:56 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Otherwise the St. John, Shipyards, St. James, JEA and City Center-Landing would indeed change downtown forever.
However take heart Jacksonville, we still have a full deck of cards to play if our leadership will lead (or just get out of the way).
CARD ONE: That new Courthouse will spur a rash of new development all through the neighborhood as large construction attracts more construction.
CARD TWO: We also have a very unique item in the Skyway, and used to our advantage, rather then sitting back - arms folded - saying NOT ONE MORE CENT, would attract many new faces to our development picture. Imagine the Shipyards or __________ being able to seek out new investors with the perk that we'll get an internal Skyway station. Simply lay out the route to the stadium or Riverside and get that land and those projects before the $$.
CARD THREE: Water taxi service to YOUR PROJECT, "Ya know, fellas we've been looking for a space to land 50-60 passengers at a time... such a deal."
CARD FOUR: That streetcar study, get those rails moving NOW, we can't stand in line forever waiting to do... we'll talk this to death, or we'll ride to victory. Remember about 80% of all TOD is Light Rail Related.
CARD FIVE: A darling NFL team, great location, fantastic weather, and this financial crash won't-can't last forever... Hey and if it does, and it all ends in war-smoke and ruin, give us about 7 years and JESUS will have some great financial plans!
OCKLAWAHA
I'm glad we at least agree on the mass transit front because that design for Ocean Square is horrendous, minus the interaction they were creating at street level.
October 3, 2008, 4:45 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
What is the current status of the Ambassador Hotel? This building has a lot of potential.
October 3, 2008, 4:53 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I believe that despite of this list, I think that most of these projects can still become a reality.
October 3, 2008, 6:28 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
walking around at Art Walk, as i did Wednesday, was very eerie due to bills posted in every vacant window, with only a few hot spots: burrito gallery/old library/florida theatre, hemming plaza/main library, and that "wonderful" bay street nightlife "district". seems like so much empty space, so much time gone by, so little (fill in the blank)?
October 3, 2008, 8:20 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
while most of those projects look great, lets keep in mind that it would have been a disaster if they all, or even a few too many, went vertical at the same time. Traffic issues would have no time to be resolved, our city would absolutely not have given any ground to aspiring developers, and once all the projects were completed the core would be understaffed, overcrowded, and would have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. What I take out of this article is that while the projects are dead or delayed, it as we all know was more a function of the collapse of the market nationally; not the potential of the core of our city. The developers are still out there and I believe we will get some of these projects in a more manageable order. Keep your heads up! We want the core to grow steadily, not an un-sustainable boom of artificial demand.
October 3, 2008, 8:38 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Joe, and others, my comments on Ocean Square are based on this one and only image that I saw. You might be comepletely right and I might have joined in the fight to stop it. But on the surface, it looked so much better then what we now have in the same locale. Remember I was building MASS TRANSIT at darn near 13,000 feet at the time, so maybe the altitude had something to do with my comments! hee hee.
OCKLAWAHA
October 3, 2008, 10:28 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I go by the place that was supposed to be the Liberty Lofts quite a bit and for the past couple of weeks they've been cleaning it out, anyone know what's going on? Looks like all the window panels were taken out and I've seen people carrying stuff out into a dumpster.
I guess at least for the Liberty Lofts, it wasn't so much the economy as it was the neighbors that did it in.
October 3, 2008, 11:00 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Something absolutely has got to take form in the Brooklyn area eventually. Every day that I drive past there to work, (I work for the bad guys, FIDELITY) I just can't get over how beautiful the whole strip is. To me it has such amazing walkablilty, and would be the perfect place for just about any kind of retail or to even simply turn into a park. It's a real shame the project didn't come to fruition. Has there been anything else proposed for it somewhere down the line?
October 4, 2008, 1:30 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
October 4, 2008, 8:19 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
To me it's more frustrating than depressing thinking what could have been; however, I feel that our City leaders could have moved forward on the majority of these projects, much more quickly, before the boom busted and the floor collapsed; then at least half or more of these projects would have been gracing our skylines today, and, we could have used many of these great projects, had they been built, as a marketing tool to lure more people into the City. I firmly believe that though most or even possibly all of the Country is suffering right now from this severe economic downturn and housing bust, Jacksonville is faring way better than most major cities.
Our City Leaders are too slow, and too lazy when it comes to new projects such as these. Now the Kuhn projects I believe are the ones that would not have come to fruition even if City Leaders had rushed them through to possible approval; anyhoo, frustrating and a bit angry to see this. Quite a lot of cancelled and dead projects...such a shame.
Heights Unknown
October 4, 2008, 8:25 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
We can live with most of the "fuss," that would occur with numerous construction projects going at once, that you list in your post. Eventually, after construction is complete, everything would be sorted out. The key is to ensure that City Leaders carefully plan, way in advance, to sort out these problems before construction begins. That's why we pay people in City Government to plan and invent ways to prevent the type of disorder that you mention during major construction projects and phases. Miami is a prime example. I'll bet at present there are 20 or more cranes in the air which indicates numerous projects under construction at one time, and all of the debacles you mention are not a huge issue in Miami. That's why the people in power get paid the big bucks, to take care of these type issues as required. We can live with these things if City Leaders plan carefully BEFORE they begin construction on them.
Heights Unknown
October 4, 2008, 12:51 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I agree that we may have been able to sort out the mess and life would go on, but there are a few things we may not see eye to eye on. I don't believe that Miami is a good example of the amount of construction our city can handle at once. Miami has seen a boom before and has an established core which can handle an influx of population. Jacksonville currently has almost nothing in place to please downtown residents; I live down here and I love it but friends from established cities wouldn't consider moving because of the necessities not in place. I know that you didn't mean Jacksonville could literally handle 20 cranes at once but I think even half of that would have been an overload of product and a relfection of over-estimated demand. Another discussion worth looking into is the influx of crime we would have see, with the northside breathing down the neck of affluent downtown residents, but that is besides the point.
I also agree that it is important to have city leaders in place that can plan for the influx before it occurs; and I believe in our leaders, but there is only so much they can do. Don't get me wrong, I am on the same side of the fence as you when it comes to downtown development, I am just arguing that we should grow smart and for the longterm.
We can live with most of the "fuss," that would occur with numerous construction projects going at once, that you list in your post. Eventually, after construction is complete, everything would be sorted out. The key is to ensure that City Leaders carefully plan, way in advance, to sort out these problems before construction begins. That's why we pay people in City Government to plan and invent ways to prevent the type of disorder that you mention during major construction projects and phases. Miami is a prime example. I'll bet at present there are 20 or more cranes in the air which indicates numerous projects under construction at one time, and all of the debacles you mention are not a huge issue in Miami. That's why the people in power get paid the big bucks, to take care of these type issues as required. We can live with these things if City Leaders plan carefully BEFORE they begin construction on them.
Heights Unknown
October 4, 2008, 2:15 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
This pretty much describes the situation that was created by suburban growth over the past 10 years.
October 4, 2008, 3:25 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
agreed, although evidently I need to learn how to quote a quote, see above
October 4, 2008, 4:55 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Yeah, I'm with dtjag on this one. Maybe it's because I always look for the bright side of things, but I think that had many of these projects pushed forth just before the real estate bubble burst, we'd have lots of empty high-rises downtown now. The silver lining we should all remember is that we want smart and sustained growth that will put us in a good position in the long run.
When the housing market returns, hopefully we can resume that slow but steady development in the core.
October 5, 2008, 2:31 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now
October 5, 2008, 4:09 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
There's more than that. I know there's a few projects rising in Brickell right now and I see at least six in this one shot looking north.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=477774&page=90
October 5, 2008, 7:24 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I am suprised lakelander. Look at that picture and count how many developers wish they weren't paying rent on non-profitable cranes right now. They are all collecting dust. I don't care if those are residential, office, or mixed-used projects. Now is an awful time to build. Construction costs are way up, in every sector, besides labor. I don't know if you are arguing the amount of cranes in Miami or the feasability of building in Jacksonville but in my opinion you are way off.
October 5, 2008, 7:47 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I'm not off, there are six cranes in the image. That's the only point I was trying to make. As for now being an awful time to build, I believe it ultimately depends on the type of project you're developing and the market you're targeting. Even in today's economic conditions, you can't paint every single project with one broad brush.
October 5, 2008, 7:56 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Agreed, and I apologize for coming off strongly. I have read many of your posts and I respect your opinion. Long term, I agree that most of those cranes will turn into profitable investments. Go Jaguars
October 5, 2008, 8:50 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
No need to apologize. Some of the cranes in Miami may be office developments. Its an international business center, so some of the companies down there may not be suffering.
As for Jax, I think we have to remember that not all proposals come to light. Despite the dead and delayed list, we saw a number of new projects rise in the urban core over the first half of this decade. There are many similar sized cities across the US that can't say the same.
October 5, 2008, 11:48 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Sorry guys, Miami might even close the population gap (in spite of our consolidation) if you check the world high rise forums they have over 70 new projects. As far as I know, all 70 are up from the dust, how many will be done is anyones guess. Bottom line, they will leave us in their dust, or we'll get the few financial survivors when the rest of their developers jump out of 90 story windows and splatter on Flagler.
We just didn't get into the boom until it was over, as usual, typical Jacksonville foot dragging. But in the end this might have been a good thing for local financial institutions.
OCKLAWAHA
October 6, 2008, 7:12 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Its unfair to compare Jax with Miami. Metro Miami is five times larger than Metro Jax and was the site of the largest urban boom in America over the last couple of years. Also, there have been several projects in Miami that have been canceled as well. However, that place is just on a different level.
October 6, 2008, 9:00 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I don't agree Lake, in 1900, we were far ahead of Miami, 1940-60 we were neck and neck, comes the AFL and the POST FLAGLER ERA and Miami metro Skyrockets past us. Dallas got it's NFL team with a population of about 600,000 - 800,000 then rocketed past us. Ditto Tampa. It's our turn now, good team or bad, we can't pay for the commercials we got last night. This sort of thing makes every television game a WIN for Jacksonville. With our space and our river, we could overtake Miami before, my wires are depowered, I'm labeled "NOT IN SERVICE" and go to the big carbarn in the Sky.
"I'm a believer!"
OCKLAWAHA
October 6, 2008, 9:24 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
And dont forget that one of the greatest eras for building in US history was during the Great Depression under the WPA.
I think that the real problem we have downtown is the boneheaded impulse to tear down structures on the mere possibility that there might be a development.
I think it might turn out that we actually tore down more than we built during this last 'boom'.
October 6, 2008, 9:31 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I can go ahead and say about the Miami image. The 4 cranes in the lower right of the picture are part of Metropolitan Miami development. They are working on phase 2 (MET2), which is a 47-story office tower, and an ajoining 42-story Marriott Marquis hotel.
October 6, 2008, 9:41 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
"I'm a believer!"
OCKLAWAHA
When we forget about imaginary municipal city limit lines and look at metro area population, you'll see those places were already signficantly larger than us as far back as 1950. Metro Miami was almost twice the size as Metro Jax (579,017 vs. 304,029) and Metro Tampa was larger as well (409,113 vs. 304,029). In 1950, Dallas was much larger (1,136,144 vs. 304,029).
link to numbers: http://www.demographia.com/dm-usmet-fr50.htm
Our day as the true un-contested big dog in Florida peaked somewhere between 1880 and 1900. Excluding Orlando, during the last 100 years, we were never significantly larger than these other places. We can probably blame Flagler and Plant for extending the railroad across the St. Johns to South and Central Florida. I believe in the future of Jacksonville, but I also accept the notion that urban centers like Miami, San Francisco, Dallas, NYC, Chicago, etc. are on a completely different level due to shear size.
October 6, 2008, 9:46 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Thanks for the update. Considering the lack of commercial projects during Miami's condo boom period, there may be some untapped demand for office and hotel space serving that urban core's higher population base.
October 6, 2008, 10:01 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I think it might turn out that we actually tore down more than we built during this last 'boom'.
Good point. The failure of many of these projects have nothing to do with places like Miami or anywhere else. Some projects, like the St. James and St. Johns Point, were pie-in-the sky. On the other hand, the courthouse delay alone is probably responsible for the lack of movement of at least four (323 Duval, Ambassador Hotel, Jones Furniture Building and old JEA Tower conversion). Politics are part of the blame for the Landing's expansion plans dying and Kuhn's projects not being further along before he went under (ex. the chilled water line issue with Riverwatch, the Barnett and the Laura Trio. Some others, like new public library, took out buildings that already had positive uses taking place in them. Just imagine if the new library had been built on Main Street's surface parking lots to complement the now demolished loft district and Rhodes Furniture Building. The complete lack of a general downtown vision has limited the potential positive impact of many new infill projects by allowing the demolition of older buildings that would have been ideal for use by urban pioneers and small business owners. The buildings lost were the important fabric needed to bring the scattered newer projects together to create one larger vibrant area of urban synergy.
October 6, 2008, 8:32 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Lake, I know you are right on the ambassador; I asked the source a couple of months ago. That is one of my favorite possible's downtown right now. What is Riverwatch?
October 6, 2008, 9:12 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Safely can agree, thank God the St. James wasn't built. Our city didn't need a new tallest that looked like a big white box, and was completely out of place and location.
October 6, 2008, 9:25 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
It's in the very article you're posting on.
"River Watch at City Centre"
One of Cameron Kuhn's pies in the sky. Would've filled in the skyline really nicely, though.
October 6, 2008, 9:31 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
"River Watch at City Centre"
One of Cameron Kuhn's pies in the sky. Would've filled in the skyline really nicely, though.
October 7, 2008, 3:21 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I'm gonna ramble a bit before I go to sleep. I apologize in advance.
Sure, from the standpoint of civic pride, it might be cool if Jax had remained and always was the king of the state. If kids all over the state of Florida grew up wanting to move to the big city and that city was Jacksonville. But as things stand now, I don't necessarily want Jacksonville to grow and develop at the expense of the rest of the state. If that's the only way, then I'll take it, but I'd much rather the entire region grow and improve together even if it means Jax always plays second or third fiddle to the other cities to our south. Don't get me wrong, I share everyone's vision of the potential in this city and the natural advantages we have here that could, and perhaps should have, put us at the top all along. But I just want to avoid the idea that we must be the best in the state to the detriment of the rest of the area. Instead, I just want us to be the best we can be, period. (And maybe I'm the only one who has lost sight of this, in which case I'm just writing to remind myself of this fact)
If our population is to double in the next 30 years as projected, I'll gladly take a Floridian Megalopolis that rivals the one up in the Northeast. Miami = Boston, Keys = Cape Cod (et al), Tampa = Philly, Orlando - NYC (i guess...), Sarasota = Providence, Jax = DC, Daytona = Baltimore (hehe)
And then Arizona can become what Florida once was.
October 7, 2008, 3:23 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I feel bad about leaving out West Palm...maybe they'll be Hartford.
October 7, 2008, 7:35 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I agree. There's room for positive growth in all of Florida's cities.
October 7, 2008, 9:19 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I just hope all the room that is left is not consumed. The entire country needs to greatly restrict its development boundaires, enhance water consumption restrictions, and greatly reduce polution. Once of Jacksonville's greatest assets is the pristene wilderness that surrounds us. Central Florida is the very example of what sprawl will do to the overall health of a region all for the sake of development. We need to have some natural Florida and USA left for our children to enjoy.
October 7, 2008, 10:02 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Most definately. As Miami has shown during its boom, we can grow through infill development and allowing higher densities in certain areas, as opposed to spreading outward like a virus.
October 7, 2008, 2:00 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Agreed. (with you both). Definitely one of the growing concerns as we move further into the 21st century.
There was a story a few months ago on one of the NPR/PRI news programs about the expected population growth in Florida (which I was referencing when I said something like doubling by 2040) and they discussed the likelihood of our state even being able to sustain such a large population.
October 7, 2008, 2:06 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Our aquifer is drying up, tapping the rivers is already causing concerns, polution of our aquatic resources is causing concerns, and aging sprawling infrastructure is becomming more and more expensive to maintain. I doubt this state will support a doubleing population without some serious rethinking of our water supply, polution control, and development regulations.
IMO, water is going to be one of the top issues facing our generation. Desalinization on a massive scale needs to happen yesterday and we need to abandon deep aquifer wells and stop pumping polution into our waterways.
October 7, 2008, 10:07 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
The Lofts at East Union and Bishopgate are my 2 faves not built.
October 8, 2008, 12:11 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
TIME FOR ANOTHER REVOLT!
IMO, water is going to be one of the top issues facing our generation. Desalinization on a massive scale needs to happen yesterday and we need to abandon deep aquifer wells and stop pumping polution into our waterways
Pure Southern Inspiration
Jason, I've long thought we North Florida folks should take care of this problem once and for all. Let's build a 30' high dam across the state from Just south of Daytona, Mount Dora, Brooksville, and out into the gulf. We'll tell Tampa - Orlando - Miami and all of south Florida they can have all the water they want, about the time the St. Johns, Ocklawaha and Withlacoochee Rivers, overtop the spillways, we shouldn't hear any more from them... Bubble...bubble....blurp!
Another Ocklawaha Plan inspired by the Spirits of the old South - 1849 vintage!
SMILE! (If you REALLY want some fun check out the Rebel Yell Website! http://rebelyellwhiskey.com/ )
Ocklawaha
October 10, 2008, 5:08 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
What is the difference between dead and indefinitely delayed?
October 11, 2008, 12:32 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
The liberty loft building was recently bought by a developer from Riverside. SWM builders. He is gutting the second floor and is going to put 9 loft style apartments there. He is leasing out the bottom space to a business...but the offices that line liberty street with all the windows...he is talking about leasing those out (cheap) as artist studios. He is making some great headway! I'm excited he is moving forward with this project in this market...it is great for Springfield!
October 11, 2008, 7:18 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Wow. Great update. Hopefully, it will be the catalyst needed to kick off additional loft style development in the warehouse district.
October 11, 2008, 8:08 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
October 14, 2008, 12:57 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
A lot of projects will come back to life when the real estate and credit markets loosen up a bit. Right now it is very hard for even credible developers and earnest potential buyers to get loans to buy property.
October 16, 2008, 4:25 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
I don't think we really know what we are asking for. Besides the traffic that has been mentioned several times, this would be a disaster if even 60% of these projects were built. Downtown Jax is already struggling to keep office occupancy high. And (dead horse alert) they are not enough lifestyle choices for downtown Jax for residents. PLUS, exactly where is this surge of population going to come from. Many are complaining that these didn't get built but who will live in these $200K+ condos and what companies will fill these several hundred offices that would have been built. Slow and steady is what we need from city officials and developers. We have to be realistic in what we expect. Final note. I heard Cameron Kuhn speak shortly before everyone knew that the market had tanked. His philosophy was a 'field of dreams.' "If you build it, they will come." Partly, yes. More, no.
October 22, 2008, 11:42 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Well in a lieu of all that, we should still keep the faith. Things are looking up. Honestly, I'm an optimist
November 14, 2008, 6:57 am
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
That's why we have leaders and elected officials in our City that get paid the big bucks; to sort something like this out when it does happen! So don't worry, if thse developments come back to life, then it is someone's job and responsibility to support the increased traffic, utilities, and other headaches associated with it.
Heights Unknown
November 14, 2008, 6:04 pm
Re: Results of the Boom: Dead Projects
Obviously, deeply saddened by the dead and indefinitely delayed projects. However, The Landing project doesn't bother me so much. I would really like to see it revitalized, but the design looks jumbled and messy to me. I've never liked Tony Sleiman's design too much stucco, I think more glass would look better.
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