| City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends |
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| Tuesday, 09 September 2008 | |
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Changes may again be coming to Downtown parking laws, but this time it could be the final nail in the coffin for the few remaining businesses. In late 2006, Metro Jacksonville, with the help of City Councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins, was able to get legislation passed which called for a relaxation of the punitive downtown parking laws in an effort to alleviate the inhospitable environment it created for local businesses. Shocking Parking Policy Reversal hailed by downtown Merchants A proposal authored by the Parking Facilities & Enforcement Division that would amend the City’s parking meter ordinance is moving around the City Council offices looking for a sponsor. Some of the suggested changes include enforcing the charge for parking at a metered space at night and on weekends, eliminating the legality of “feeding the meter” to park at a space up to three hours and reinstating the 4-block prohibition for continued parking. If you would like downtown parking to remain free on nights and weekends, it is important that you email the Jacksonville City Council at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it . A very short note opposing this legislation will help get their attention on this issue. Please note that the email address This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it simply forwards your message to the current city council. We maintain the accuracy of this list to make it more convienent for our readers to contact the council. |
September 9, 2008, 5:20 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Can we just go ahead and do it, right now, just do it. Make a book called JACKSONVILLE: The City FAIL!
Seriously, this has got to be the 2nd best example to Detroit of a city this large absolutely f*cking up, especially the opportunities for our location, size and diversity. I practically give up on this city. They at least did sprawl just right.
September 9, 2008, 6:14 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
A fee for parking downtown at night? Great. We will need 10 meter maids working 24/7 to empty all those fees from the meters and enforce the new fee structure. In fact, we should impound cars that are at expired meters. This way, the city could get a $250.00 towing fee, plus $25 storage fee per night to deal with extra cost for the new full time meter maids needed to solve the huge night time parking problem downtown.
September 9, 2008, 7:27 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
This is just plain stupid. Businesses downtown should march straight into Peytons office. I am OK with metering and fines for parking during the day but there is really no need to do so at night... UNLESS... you are trying to generate income(tax) from a specific group of people...
The urbanites have been targeted...
September 9, 2008, 9:04 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Bob Carle needs to have his ass fired.
Fired. Flogged, Greased, then sold off to the lowest bidder in the most disreputable caravan of Bedouins that can be found.
Not only is this extremely bad faith, but this jackassed idea will completely destroy what is left of the carnage of downtown.
Here is the email I sent to the city:
What the hell?
This thermonuclear dumbass is hell bent on destroying what rubble is left downtown.
Carle needs fired immediately.
Stephen Dare
September 9, 2008, 9:09 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The lone bit of bright news I got from the story is that he is walking around City Council "looking for a sponsor". This means, I hope, that he does not yet have one. I pray the Council is intelligent enough to realize what a stupid idea this is. Bob Carle is from Parking and Enforcement. His mindset isn't what is good for the city. His mindset is what is good for Bob Carle and his division. This isn't the typical 'head in the sand' dumbassery of Jacksonville.. His point of view is indicative of what is wrong with government at all levels in our nation. What is best for the city, psh! to hell with that. What is best for me? Gotta love people like him.
September 9, 2008, 9:18 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
OUTRAGE! The Parking Division is out of control, an obvious loose cannon in the artillery of common sense. The idea that we have a so called Transportation Authority - without ANY authority in this is unbelievable.
BTW, shouldn't parking, walks, bikeways and paths come under transportation? They could then be joint projects of JTA-Parks, JTA-City, etc. At the very least, JTA would probably maintain the things.
As the resident TRANSIT MONSTER on these boards, I'm all in favor of cutting down the amount of parking tossed into both downtown AND places like Baymeadows/Town Center/Southpointe. Seems to me the logic is all wrong here:
1. Allow new builders into these areas without the parking requirements - provided they sign a subscription transit program agreement with the JTA for their employees. Parking must be maintained and in the end this would be a bargain for both sides.
2. Focus new parking garage efforts on the limits of the urbanized areas but not within these areas. This way park and ride in would become a fixed way of life in Jacksonville, and the immediate benefit would be to return acres of bare ground to tax based building.
3. Remove ALL PARKING meters from the city streets. This would allow the small restaurant, retail and entertainment industry to take root in both downtown and the edge city at town-center.
The end result would be density that would support life, and mass transit on a scale that we've never seen.
OCKLAWAHA
September 9, 2008, 9:22 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
BTW, shouldn't parking, walks, bikeways and paths come under transportation? They could then be joint projects of JTA-Parks, JTA-City, etc. At the very least, JTA would probably maintain the things.
As the resident TRANSIT MONSTER on these boards, I'm all in favor of cutting down the amount of parking tossed into both downtown AND places like Baymeadows/Town Center/Southpointe. Seems to me the logic is all wrong here:
1. Allow new builders into these areas without the parking requirements - provided they sign a subscription transit program agreement with the JTA for their employees. Parking must be maintained and in the end this would be a bargain for both sides.
2. Focus new parking garage efforts on the limits of the urbanized areas but not within these areas. This way park and ride in would become a fixed way of life in Jacksonville, and the immediate benefit would be to return acres of bare ground to tax based building.
3. Remove ALL PARKING meters from the city streets. This would allow the small restaurant, retail and entertainment industry to take root in both downtown and the edge city at town-center.
The end result would be density that would support life, and mass transit on a scale that we've never seen.
OCKLAWAHA
Hear Hear!
September 9, 2008, 9:28 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
After flogging, tar and feathering, and whilst still sticky, this is the photo that should be pasted to Bob Carle's nether regions...
BOB, IT'S CALLED PARK AND RIDE!
OCKLAWAHA
September 9, 2008, 9:29 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
These changes would likely end Art Walk.
September 9, 2008, 9:31 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
this is the most backstabby thing Ive seen done downtown in a while.
We went to countless meetings, and with the exception of the crankiest old man in duval county and the guys who own the parking garages, NO ONE wants the parking meters downtown anymore.
Then Carle waits for a year after Suzanne Jenkins is off of council and tries to submit legislation to undo the work we all did.
What a doublecrossing snake in the grass.
People were leaving downtown with 60 and 70 dollar parking tickets under the old laws. It was an EVERYDAY occurrence. You could not go downtown without hearing a tirade in every business except the jewelry store about how someone would NEVER come downtown again as a result of the parking tickets.
And to be honest, who on earth could afford to come to the urban core and pay 15 dollars a day for the privilege?
This is such bad faith that it takes by breath away.
September 9, 2008, 9:35 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I sent my email in...
September 9, 2008, 9:37 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
This is truly disappointing. These parking people are killing Downtown and the sad thing is they dont realize it or just dont care! what an outrage.
September 9, 2008, 10:09 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Well it is fairly clear the city does not care about downtown, other than for the offices and workers during the day. They do not want anyone living, shopping, or eating there on the weekends or at night and if anyone dares to do so they will pay a price. But hey, maybe it will drive people out to their overdeveloped burbs……ridiculous!
September 9, 2008, 10:15 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
This town is run by Gate and oil-based interest groups and they do not have any interest in urban lifestyle,quite opposite they want Jax to be suburban as much as posible and spend more gas.
Jax administration has been sabotaging urban projects constantly.
September 9, 2008, 10:20 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
this is the truth.
Im sure Bob is panicking because his unecessary department is struggling for funds. There arent enough people coming downtown to justify the meters themselves based on toll collections.
Which SHOULD SPEAK VOLUMES by itself.
When his goons, who were about the rudest ass*$*&s in the city, were deprived of their hundred ways to give tickets for crappy reasons, the revenues went to where their natural level was.
It is time to abandon this business killing model altogether.
Notice that the rat fink isnt suggesting that parking meters be expanded all over the city, which would be the only FAIR thing to do.
September 9, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I have a suggestion....
PUT A GIANT ELECTRIC FENCE WITH MACHINE GUN TOTIN' ARMED GUARDS AROUND DOWNTOWN AND CALL IT QUITS.
WE HAVE HORRIBLE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND MOST PEOPLE HAVE TO DRIVE DOWNTOWN ON NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS TO MAKE IT WORTHWHILE AND NOW THEY WANT TO TRY THIS GARBAGE.
THEY WILL NEVER COLLECT ANY MONEY BECAUSE DOWNTOWN ON NITES AND WEEKENDS WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH.
SO WHERE IS THE POST THAT THIS IS REALLY A SILLY JOKE...
CUZ YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ABOUT THIS ONE......
September 9, 2008, 10:28 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Don't give them ideas Stephen.
September 9, 2008, 10:39 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Do not just complain here... send an email.
If you would like downtown parking to remain free on nights and weekends, it is important that you email the Jacksonville City Council at citycouncil@metrojacksonville.com This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it . A very short note opposing this legislation will help get their attention on this issue.
Perhaps an address for the Mayor and possibly Andy Johnson?
September 9, 2008, 10:42 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
jpeyton@coj.net
September 9, 2008, 10:54 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Here is what I sent:
I am writing to encourage you to vote against any new downtown parking policy that would enforce metered parking after 5 pm on weekdays and on the weekends. This would devastate many downtown businesses, especially restaurants that are trying to bring life and new customers to downtown. I am in law school, so I spend many weekends at the lovely new downtown library, often for up to 4 hours at a time. Additionally, I wait tables at Chew. It would be extremely inconvenient to have to move my car every hour when studying. Additionally, it would discourage customers from eating at Chew, or many other downtown restaurants, if there was concern about a car being ticketed or towed.
Often, public officials talk an excellent game about downtown development, but their policies and voting record do not correspond. Those of us who work and spend time downtown are the ones who end up paying the price.
Thank you,
Adam
September 9, 2008, 11:03 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
This is late notice but MayorsOffice@metrojacksonville.com may also be helpful to send to.
September 9, 2008, 11:07 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I gotta tell you I really liked konstantconsumer's wording. Can we use that as a form letter to send on to Peyton and everyone else on the city council?
September 9, 2008, 11:12 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I am writing to encourage you to vote against any new downtown parking policy that would enforce metered parking after 5 pm on weekdays and on the weekends. This would devastate many downtown businesses, especially restaurants that are trying to bring life and new customers to downtown. I live downtown, so I spend many weekends at the lovely new downtown library, eat and shop downtown often for up to 4 hours at a time. It would be extremely inconvenient to have to move my car every hour when partaking of downtowns current offerrings. Additionally, it would discourage customers from eating at many other downtown restaurants, if there was concern about a car being ticketed or towed.
Often, public officials talk an excellent game about downtown development, but their policies and voting record do not correspond. Those of us who work, live, and spend time downtown are the ones who end up paying the price.
Thank you,
I have no problem with plagerism LOL!!!
September 9, 2008, 11:17 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
you may add my name to the list.
September 9, 2008, 11:22 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
we are all emailing seperately gator. there are links provided that automatically send your email to all the members of the Council as well as the Mayor's Office.
September 9, 2008, 11:29 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I can not get the city council link to work. I tried everything, inlcuding what was posted I don"t get it
September 9, 2008, 11:37 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
How is Bob Carle proposing that his changes would benefit the people, business, building owners? Does anyone have a link to his proposal so we can read it?
If the proposal actually claims to do something good for downtown, perhaps we could recommend something just as good that doesn't alienate the few customers that spend time and money downtown?
September 9, 2008, 11:42 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
How do you mean? anything that me or lunican can help with?
September 9, 2008, 11:44 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
it kicks it back as undeliverable, I may have to try a different email carrier
September 9, 2008, 11:45 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
thats probably the best thing. I use gmail and its working for me.
if that doesnt work for you try cityc@coj.net (and citya@coj.net)
September 9, 2008, 12:26 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Changes may again be coming to Downtown parking laws, but this time it could be the final nail in the coffin for the few remaining businesses.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/892
*Eyes closed, shaking head violently*
September 9, 2008, 12:36 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Why don't we offer them a compromise - all ticket proceeds will go towards light rail development, extending the Skyway further, and/or developing the S line.
September 9, 2008, 12:40 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
That would be good except no one will be parking downtown at night anymore to give tickets to...
September 9, 2008, 12:54 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
If this is to go in effect, about how many people might it take to park downtown with the intent on receiving a parking ticket at night only to rip them up and throw them on the street in protest, to make a difference?
Or start a petition encouraging everyone who receives a ticket not to pay.
I guess I’m being overdramatic, sorry but I’m upset. This is very discouraging.
September 9, 2008, 1:13 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Absolute Lunacy.
September 9, 2008, 1:23 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
What would it take to enact a de-consolidation?
Jax city council is WAY too powerful. If downtown wants to separate itself from the world, so be it - De-Consolidate!
September 9, 2008, 1:24 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
be sure to email the council and the mayor's office~!
September 9, 2008, 1:34 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
What is the position of JEDC and DVI on this issue? Shouldn't they be on top of something like this?
September 9, 2008, 1:51 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
have we looked at the possible ADVANTAGES of operational meters at night?
September 9, 2008, 2:03 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Such as less douche bags clubbing it up at Mark’s and Dive Bar?
September 9, 2008, 2:11 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
there will be no marks or dive bar if this happens.....
and of course there has to be one person who can find an advantage...
So what is it Driven1?
Please share
September 9, 2008, 2:19 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Why are there parking meters on the street at all??
http://www.ionet.net/~luttrell/history.html
The world's first installed parking meter was in Oklahoma City, on July 16, 1935. Mr. Magee had been appointed to the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce traffic committee, and was assigned the task of solving the parking problems in downtown Oklahoma City. Apparently, folks who worked in the area were parking on downtown streets, staying all day, and leaving few spaces for shoppers and others who visited the central business district.
Magee's solution was to install parking meters, charge for the use of the parking spaces, and turn over those spaces that would otherwise have been filled by all day parkers. In addition, the parking meters would generate revenue for a growing city.
If this is why Jacksonville has parking meters then it really makes no sense at all to enforce metered parking at night.
September 9, 2008, 2:46 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
You hit the nail on the head, Bridge Troll.
During the day, there's a clear purpose for meters or time limits. They prevent office workers from parking on-street all day long.
At night, there is no purpose for this what-so-ever. It makes absolutely no sense. I can't imagine even Jacksonville's city council doing something so stupid.
The only time night/weekend metering makes sense is when there is an entertainment district with a parking crunch. Very few city districts meet that criteria, and certainly none in Jacksonville.
September 9, 2008, 2:49 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Actually, there is no clear purpose for meters in the day either. There are no stores to shop at and the meter occupancy rate is around 20% according to a JTA study.
The people lobbying for more enforcement are private parking lot owners.
September 9, 2008, 2:53 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Well... it does... if you think you need to tax the people who use downtown. If someone decided that those who use the streets at night to park are a new and untapped revenue stream for the city then you enact a policy like this.
The problem (like most taxes) is that it hurts consumers and business. Business owners need to get together to stop this...
September 9, 2008, 3:00 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The people lobbying for more enforcement are private parking lot owners.
exactly. there is no reason to have the meters at all in downtown. Do something half smart and pull them up to finally make the area attractive to merchants and customers.
September 9, 2008, 3:02 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
IM downtown at present (got back to Jax Sunday night.)
The Merchants are pretty pissed. They all have the same opinion. If downtown has to have the meters, then all of the city should have them installed as well.
Why is it fair that ONLY downtown has to deal with the damned things?
September 9, 2008, 3:05 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Also, does parking enforcement regularly patrol any other neighborhood?
September 9, 2008, 3:07 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The people lobbying for more enforcement are private parking lot owners.
exactly. there is no reason to have the meters at all in downtown. Do something half smart and pull them up to finally make the area attractive to merchants and customers.
If they remove all meters from downtown it will lead to "permanent parking" of vehicles. What is to stop me from parking my car that doesnt work very well on a downtown street for a couple days... I think they do serve an evil purpose during the day.
September 9, 2008, 3:12 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The people lobbying for more enforcement are private parking lot owners.
exactly. there is no reason to have the meters at all in downtown. Do something half smart and pull them up to finally make the area attractive to merchants and customers.
If they remove all meters from downtown it will lead to "permanent parking" of vehicles. What is to stop me from parking my car that doesnt work very well on a downtown street for a couple days... I think they do serve an evil purpose during the day.
I think in a normally functioning city that would be true, BT.
However when we did the EXTENSIVE study on this issue we found out that there are actually 36 thousand parking spaces in the urban core.
But there are only 18 thousand employees still working downtown. So even if every employee in the downtown suddenly decided to park downtown, there would be 18 thousand more parking spaces to choose from.
This is why only 20 percent of the parking meters are occupied during the day.
Shocking figures, eh?
By the way, this is the same argument that the parking garage owners used to try and prevent the crazy laws that they were previously enforcing from being passed.
The new laws have been in effect for more than a year now, and the only change is that people are no longer angry all the time about the parking situation downtown.
September 9, 2008, 3:13 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
At this point, what exactly would this theoretical car be interfering with?
Why are we creating "turnover" in front of grass fields and abandoned buildings?
Apparently the Jewelery store on the corner of Laura and Adams is the last remaining store downtown that anyone drives to in the middle of the day.
September 9, 2008, 3:46 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The people lobbying for more enforcement are private parking lot owners.
exactly. there is no reason to have the meters at all in downtown. Do something half smart and pull them up to finally make the area attractive to merchants and customers.
If they remove all meters from downtown it will lead to "permanent parking" of vehicles. What is to stop me from parking my car that doesnt work very well on a downtown street for a couple days... I think they do serve an evil purpose during the day.
The city does not have to make people pay to create turnover. You can still enforce time limits without meters
Downtown Raleigh
Savannah's main retail street offers free time limited parking
Downtown Greenville offers free on-street parking
We can still have turnover without penalizing people for visiting downtown businesses. These three cities above are examples of this.
September 9, 2008, 4:17 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
It's hard to make a case for turnover when half of downtown looks like this:
Why exactly are those meters there?
September 9, 2008, 4:21 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I think they are waiting on the courthouse?
Btw, you need an updated image. The 100 year old buildings in the background were ripped down a few months ago.
September 9, 2008, 8:33 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Btw, you need an updated image. The 100 year old buildings in the background were ripped down a few months ago.
September 9, 2008, 8:48 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I just read where the city council just voted tonight to ease up restrictions on homeless feedings too, even the non profits are against this- this just may be the death of downtown.
September 9, 2008, 9:48 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
To Whom It May Concern-
If Jacksonville is ever to become an advanced and respected metropolitan area those in charge must make decisions to allow for growth and development in the urban core. I'm writing because I've caught wind of possible legislation to impose more stringent parking fees downtown, which would effectively kill business growth in the core. Please please do not allow this to happen. I am a proud Jax native who has since moved far away, but hope to return someday to a bustling and lively cosmopolitan city (we can all dream). I implore you to keep Jacksonville moving in the right direction. The first step? If not eliminating parking meters altogether, at least vote against additional fees or expanded hours.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Maxwell Lee
September 9, 2008, 11:13 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
This city's future seemes to be doomed,,its tough enough as it is to get people in this city to venture downtown now we make it more difficult. We continue to give the homeless a reason to stay homeless. Our new motto should be Death to the City of Jacksonville where fools and homeless run free.
September 10, 2008, 1:57 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Top Brass at JEDC assured me on Tuesday afternoon that the 24/7 enforcement was just an idea put forth by Parking Enforcement at a brain storming session. It's not gonna happen. Councilman Don Redman and assistant Scott Wilson concur.
Good work folks. I think we can back off now.
This is troubling. No input from downtown residents and business owners. I attended the City Council meeting Tuesday evening long enough to experience the 9/8 vote in favor of the relaxed standards for feeding. I was ready for public comment, but no comment was permitted before the vote.
Councilman Don Redman telephoned shortly thereafter to explain that the amendments to the ordinance only apply to "residential areas". Redmans's assistant, Scott Wilson also telephoned. I suggested that Downtown is a unique area of Jacksonville,and requires special rules and treatment. We agreed to have a meeting sometime in the future, that would include members of the downtown community. Anyone interested? Let me know: lacenar@gmail.com.
September 10, 2008, 2:31 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
(Jerry Morgan)Thanks Good news tried to access your email was not able to can you send me an email at your convience,, kkpugh726@aol.com,,another ? why would this idea or an idea like this would even be considered(re parking and homeless),,just goes to show how much work that needs to be done, in fact the problem is not the homeless, surface lots and etc its the city leaders, thats the problem.
September 10, 2008, 8:32 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Why do you see this as a problem? Hell, at least we would "look like" someone is downtown! Used car dealers across the land could store their cars along our empty streets...
Stay tuned and we'll even come up with an idea to make it look like we have buildings and people too!
OCKLAWAHA
September 10, 2008, 8:44 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I really wasnt saying it was a problem. The issue began with night time metering and enforcment which I am whole heartedly against. Which is a move away from the status quo... metered and enforcment during the day. Stephen changed the entire argument by proposing removing all metered parking and enforcement. I was simply saying that there may be a downside to removing all metered parking. I am not a "parking specialist" but I can imagine instances where unmetered parking could be abused and cause a problem.
September 10, 2008, 9:38 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
No more than the abuse occurring at the Avenues and Town Center everyday. Five Points and San Marco Square are timed, but don't penalize their customers to pay an entry fee to visit their districts.
Anyway, since these suggestions were a part of a "brainstorming session", I think its time to "brainstorm" a little more. The validity of simply having on-street meters should be seriously discussed. Then if there really is a need, we should then be finding a way to install more user friendly and attractive smart meters.
September 10, 2008, 10:10 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Take a look around downtown during a work day. The meter usage is extremely low. Probably even less than JTA's estimated 20%.
At night occupancy is approximately zero. The meters serve no purpose.
September 10, 2008, 10:59 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
If the meters were removed altogether wouldn’t that limit parking during the day time hours as office workers WILL park there if it’s free. Then if you want to grab lunch, early dinner, shop, or go to the library you are out of luck.
September 10, 2008, 11:31 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Remove the meters but set time limits for parking during normal business hours. 2 hours most places, maybe shorter for higher demands areas like near the courthouse, and longer for downtown areas away from the central business district. If someone wants to park longer, they'll have to use a garage or pay lot.
September 10, 2008, 11:37 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
In reality, there are only a few blocks downtown that someone could have dinner or go shopping. The rest of downtown it would not be possible to do so.
Shopping here?
A nice dinner here?
Why are we paying to maintain and enforce meters in front of abandoned and demolished buildings? They are never used.
September 10, 2008, 11:44 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
now for a counter balance
1. Allow new builders into these areas without the parking requirements - provided they sign a subscription transit program agreement with the JTA for their employees. Parking must be maintained and in the end this would be a bargain for both sides.
this is a good idea in some places, like the urban core, san marco springfield,avondale, the older urban areas but it is an insane idea for the suburban areas, if you do not provide adequate parking businesses will not be able to attract customers and the ones they do attract will create parking on medians, in fire zones. You urbanistas have to realize that the vast majority of people DO NOT share your visions of dense urban utopias, many of us moved to the 'burbs to escape what you hold near and dear
2. Focus new parking garage efforts on the limits of the urbanized areas but not within these areas. This way park and ride in would become a fixed way of life in Jacksonville, and the immediate benefit would be to return acres of bare ground to tax based building.
park and ride has many limits to it's usability, this is just another one size fits all approach to a problem and it is a big reason why park and rides rarely work as planned.
3. Remove ALL PARKING meters from the city streets. This would allow the small restaurant, retail and entertainment industry to take root in both downtown and the edge city at town-center.
September 10, 2008, 11:51 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
UTG.
There are twice as many parking spaces downtown as there are people who come downtown.
It turns out that most of the downtown workers prefer to have a steady parking space in a garage so that they arent late to work.
There is NO REASON for downtown to have meters.
And why downtown only, anyways?
If downtown has to have them, they should be put everywhere in the city.
September 10, 2008, 11:59 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I can only comment on my own experience, of trying to find a parking spot at the library, at the bank, at the landing. You are correct i can always find a parking space in the garage, but tryign parking outside the bank, library of landing..it is impossible. My only concern would be even less spaces may be available in these particular areas if there were no meters at all. In any case I only brought it up as a concern, soemthign to think about, not as reason in and of itself to not get rid of the meters. I know some workers have to apy for that reserved spot themselves and complain bitterly. It is one of the reason some companies do not have their offices downtown.
September 10, 2008, 12:26 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
How does the Town Center deal with the issue?
The fact is that people walking on the streets is the desired outcome.
And people don't mind walking (as is obvious in the malls) However they hate having to walk if its going to cut into the time they are allowed to be downtown.
No one wants to be 15 minutes away from the library on a hour long meter.
15 minutes there, and then 15 minutes back. You have a half an hour to do what you need to do before you have to get the hell back to the meter to avoid a ticket.
The only reason that people have these discussion is that they are already there, and people assume that there must have been a good reason for them having been there. Naturally reasonable people try and figure out what the possible benefits of it must be.
It turns out that the reasons which made meters a good money maker (the only reason they exist) are all gone. Its a different, suburban world and across the country one of the driving forces of suburbanization was the unreasonable taxation via parking meters and tickets.
September 10, 2008, 1:04 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
(Forwarded to me in response to my email. Not sure if this is entirely supposed to put me at ease)
Subject: Downtown Parking Concerns
Councilmember Bishop,
Thank you for bringing us your constituents’ concerns about the information floating around about downtown parking. First and foremost I would like to let you know that we have no intention of filing legislation that prohibits weeknight or weekend parking.
From what we understand, the rumors started from a City Note in the Daily Record that misrepresented information contained in an e-mail written by Bob Carle. Bob Carle, Chief of Public Parking was tasked with evaluating new parking enforcement/meter technologies. Some of the critical criteria for any new technology would be flexibility of payment by customer and enforcement flexibility for the City, merchants, residents and other stakeholders. This flexibility is especially important during special events. You may recall that Mr. Carle was looking at similar technology last year and it was his belief at the time that better technology and better pricing for the equipment were still in development. Bob has been working only on the technology and future enforcement pieces of what would best be described as a ‘starting point for conversation.’
The plan has all along been to wait until after the budget process so that we may all focus on crafting an ordinance that makes sense from budget, policy and enforcement perspectives. The legislation will be introduced on behalf of the Mayor as all Administration legislation is. Public Parking will not have the only say. JEDC will not have the only say. DVI will not have the only say. We will all work collaboratively to bring the Council an ordinance that makes sense and is sensitive to all stakeholders.
I hope this helps. Most stakeholders have been aware that this discussion was forthcoming – just not so quickly! k
Kerri Stewart
Deputy Chief Administrative Officer
City of Jacksonville
September 10, 2008, 1:11 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I love Kerri, but Downtown belongs to the people who live and work there, not just these beaurocratic committees who have been responsible for one of the most spectacular failures of a downtown in the United States.
We have a copy of the ordinance draft. It wasnt just a rumor. In fact, the title of the document is "Proposed changes to Ordinance 804"
The public parking policy was already decided by a group of the stakeholders when we changed the outdated ordinances in the first place.
It needs to make sense from more than just a 'budget, enforcement and policy" perspective. It has to make sense from a citizen and business owner perspective as well.
The most sensible thing is to delete the entire department, as they obviously can no longer be trusted.
What they had hoped for was that no one was watching any longer and they could change the laws back to their destructive original ways, but this time go a few steps further.
The entire division needs to be abolished.
September 10, 2008, 1:30 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
The following section is proposed to be removed:
1 Some cities which enjoy a successful downtown atmosphere continue to enforce parking regulations on the weekend. As Jacksonville grows, this proposed strike through would allow us the ability to enforce as necessary.
The following section is proposed to be added:
6 Need to restore the language which prohibits persons parking within a four block radius after their initial time parking has expired.
Here is the full document:
http://static.metrojacksonville.com/documents/Ord_revision_draft.pdf
September 10, 2008, 2:33 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
1 Some cities which enjoy a successful downtown atmosphere continue to enforce parking regulations on the weekend. As Jacksonville grows, this proposed strike through would allow us the ability to enforce as necessary.
The following section is proposed to be added:
6 Need to restore the language which prohibits persons parking within a four block radius after their initial time parking has expired.
Here is the full document:
http://static.metrojacksonville.com/documents/Ord_revision_draft.pdf
1. You know, in Oz, they have a horse of a different color and a wonderful wizard who will grant your fondest wishes.
The vivid fantasy life one would have to be immersed in to thing that Jacksonville has anything in common with 'some cities which enjoy a successful downtown atmosphere' is mindboggling.
I wonder if they have wonderful wizards as well?
2. Why on earth would anyone besides a mongoloid sadist feel it was necessary to 'make' people move four blocks away in order to stay downtown.
What a kind sized German Goat war..
September 10, 2008, 2:35 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
1 Some cities which enjoy a successful downtown atmosphere continue to enforce parking regulations on the weekend. As Jacksonville grows, this proposed strike through would allow us the ability to enforce as necessary.
The following section is proposed to be added:
6 Need to restore the language which prohibits persons parking within a four block radius after their initial time parking has expired.
Here is the full document:
http://static.metrojacksonville.com/documents/Ord_revision_draft.pdf
1. You know, in Oz, they have a horse of a different color and a wonderful wizard who will grant your fondest wishes.
The vivid fantasy life one would have to be immersed in to thing that Jacksonville has anything in common with 'some cities which enjoy a successful downtown atmosphere' is mindboggling.
I wonder if they have wonderful wizards as well?
2. Why on earth would anyone besides a mongoloid sadist feel it was necessary to 'make' people move four blocks away in order to stay downtown.
What a kind sized German Goat war..
Follow the yellow brick road...
We're not in Kansas anymore...
September 10, 2008, 2:55 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
September 10, 2008, 3:25 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Well I feel that this is being done because of tax cuts.. money has to come from somewhere. Its a harsh world.
September 10, 2008, 3:42 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
No doubt, TD. But its counter productive.
the sales taxes that would be generated by the businesses these guys have closed in just the past five years would be more than what they are able to collect.
The only reason they need the money is to cover their own expenses. The money doesnt get spent on anything except their labor and administration.
Delete the department and get rid of the cost.
September 10, 2008, 4:22 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
They have no intention of prohibiting weeknight and weekend parking, but will it be free?
How was it misrepresented? There was an actual draft ordinance.
September 10, 2008, 5:40 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
No. See this post I made earlier in the discussion.
Downtown Raleigh
Savannah's main retail street offers free time limited parking
Downtown Greenville offers free on-street parking
We can still have turnover without penalizing people for visiting downtown businesses. These three cities above are examples of this.
September 10, 2008, 5:51 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Now this idea I like, this is the best solution in my not very knowledgeable opinion!
September 10, 2008, 5:53 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Subject: Downtown Parking Concerns
Councilmember Bishop,
Thank you for bringing us your constituents’ concerns about the information floating around about downtown parking. First and foremost I would like to let you know that we have no intention of filing legislation that prohibits weeknight or weekend parking.
From what we understand, the rumors started from a City Note in the Daily Record that misrepresented information contained in an e-mail written by Bob Carle. Bob Carle, Chief of Public Parking was tasked with evaluating new parking enforcement/meter technologies. Some of the critical criteria for any new technology would be flexibility of payment by customer and enforcement flexibility for the City, merchants, residents and other stakeholders. This flexibility is especially important during special events. You may recall that Mr. Carle was looking at similar technology last year and it was his belief at the time that better technology and better pricing for the equipment were still in development. Bob has been working only on the technology and future enforcement pieces of what would best be described as a ‘starting point for conversation.’
The plan has all along been to wait until after the budget process so that we may all focus on crafting an ordinance that makes sense from budget, policy and enforcement perspectives. The legislation will be introduced on behalf of the Mayor as all Administration legislation is. Public Parking will not have the only say. JEDC will not have the only say. DVI will not have the only say. We will all work collaboratively to bring the Council an ordinance that makes sense and is sensitive to all stakeholders.
I hope this helps. Most stakeholders have been aware that this discussion was forthcoming – just not so quickly! k
Kerri Stewart
Deputy Chief Administrative Officer
City of Jacksonville
...The plan has all along been to wait until after the budget process so that we may all focus on crafting an ordinance that makes sense from budget, policy and enforcement perspectives...
This may be the root of the problem here. All downtown ordinances should be developed in a manner that improves the Downtown Experience for the End User. If enhancing the end user's visit to downtown becomes the top priority, the end result would be the complete opposite.
September 10, 2008, 6:22 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
I think they are upset that they got caught early on this. They prefer to have everything already decided, have two minutes of public comment at a council meeting, and pass it all right through without notice.
September 10, 2008, 8:18 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Definitely. Good eye, MJ!!
September 10, 2008, 9:18 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Maybe any proposed ordiance change should have to be posted to the web for 10 days before the city council addresses the proposal. Great work MJ.
September 10, 2008, 11:26 pm
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Subject: Downtown Parking Concerns
Councilmember Bishop,
Thank you for bringing us your constituents’ concerns about the information floating around about downtown parking. First and foremost I would like to let you know that we have no intention of filing legislation that prohibits weeknight or weekend parking.
Blah...Blah...Blah...
I hope this helps. Most stakeholders have been aware that this discussion was forthcoming – just not so quickly! k
Kerri Stewart
Deputy Chief Administrative Officer
City of Jacksonville
Perhaps nobody noticed, but this answer is completely non responsive to the original question. It was shown to be true that the city was planning an ordinance to extend the hours of operation of on street parking meters, and other measures to 24 hours a day, seven days a week, not to prohibit parking on the street. So while the respondent is answering a question that was never asked, there is no answer to the question that was posed. There is something very wrong with that answer that should arouse everyone's suspicions.
September 11, 2008, 1:03 am
Re: City wants to ticket on Nights and Weekends
Oh, I noticed. That's why I was saying at the top that the email wasnt really alleviating my concerns.
I'm just glad they now know that a lot of us are watching...