We have had absolutely no planning and no forethought going on for the past few years.

The Delaney Administration had a pretty awesome guy, Chip (Patterson?) who was supposed to be one of the best guys in the country for emergency preparedness working for them, but apparently hes gone.

We would be even more wiped out by a category 5 Katrina event than New Orleans was.  shoddy buildings, no planning, no sea walls, even a regular sustained bout of rain and we lost power for 1/8th of the residents.

With a little more windpower and some collateral damage, we would be screwed right proper, and there isnt even an ongoing process to prepare for it.

I found this out while trying to gather information for what would happen if the city had to deal with chronic flooding in the future if sea levels were to rise even incrementally.

We are making no plans at all.  We are not even making plans to make plans.

And thats not just because that right now, the Builders Association pretty much controls the political process in this town, and anything which would impede rapid development is discouraged, but primarily because we don't have any real vision or thinking about the future going on anywhere in the city.

Makes you think Vienna

Makes me think of Venice.

no kidding Steve. And for the city as a whole.

Are you kidding that the place functionally collapses after a little rain?

With that said, I'd hardly call this "a little rain"  We got more rain than some places get all year.  There to me are two issues at play - the river spilling over, and unbelieveably bad drainage.  We tried to work Friday, but we had to leave because we would have been flooded in.  We are nowhere near the river, our street just served as a westside retention pond.  That to me is crazy.

In addition, in any tropical storm, the city is going to have to shut down, because of the bridges - this city frankly can't function without the bridges, which close at the minimum tropical storm force winds.  In addition, this storm was extremely hard to predict.  Look at the Weather Channel - 65 meterologists on staff and they missed about three times on the path of this thing, and nobody expected it to go so slow - had this thing gone at about 8 miles an hour (which is about normal for a tropical storm), it wouldn't have been nearly this bad - the city would have been closed Thursday, and back opened Friday.

Also, in New Orleans there was the not insignificant fact that much of the City is below sea level.  That is not something which is true of Jacksonville.

We would be even more wiped out by a category 5 Katrina event than New Orleans was.

You all really need to take a step back...

1. In reality, no cities storm water facilities are planned for flash floods... its not cost feasible, and it just isn't possible.

2. Cities are planned to handle what happens most of the time (occasional storm, and they do that fine)

3. Blaming the city of jax on poor planning is wrong. nobody could have planned for this system or any other tropical system, you do the best you can, and when something like this happens you tough it out, and clean up afterwords.

You're right.  There was nothing the city could have done to keep the river from overflowing its banks or keep excess water from settling at the lowest spots in the region.

actually there is.  Its called 'drainage'.

Also available are riverwalls and pumps.

Its important also to realize, New Orleans flooded not because of the rain, but because the levy system failed, due either to the surge, or President Bush (which ever you prefer).

Duval doesnt have a levy system, and is highly republican, so I think we might fare a bit better than did New Orleans.

We can drain all we want and spend a trillion dollars on installing 10' high levees along the riverbanks throughout Duval.  Excess water will still settle at the lowest elevations in certain areas.  No one should be shocked about areas like McCoys and Hogans Creek flooding.  They were originally swamps.

Bridge, It was tongue in cheek.

what is there to correct?   the solidness it unquestionable.   Thick and dense in fact.

Of course, our drainage and infrastructure is fine, as proven by the pretty pictures.  Now if we can just sort out which canals and retention ponds are republican or democrat, the picture would have as much depth as its formidable density.

Lake, this was the exact argument that the good old boys used not to drain the northwest quadrant.

This is after all the state that drained the swamps to create real estate, and I don't know where this idea that we cant properly drain and pump comes from.

See:  The Netherlands.

We arent being helped by being forced into building surface infrastructure like roads, police and fire stations to accomodate our wicked sprawl into the low lying areas.

And of course, for reasons unknown to God and man, our Electric Authority is apparently not designed to be waterproof.

These are things we can change.

Duval schools will be closed Wednesday and Thursday, as will all city offices, Mayor John Peyton announced during a 6:40 p.m. news conference at the city's Emergency Operations Center. Information on where shelters will be open will be announced Wednesday. Episcopal High School also announced it would be closed both days.

With the libraries closed, early voting also will be suspended.

Peyton asked residents not to panic but warned them to expect lengthy power outages like those seen during tropical weather in 2004. That's when some people went up to nine days without power.

Category 1 hurricane winds are at least 75 mph and Peyton said gusts could hit 85 mph to 95 mph. He said he expects there to be downed trees and power lines and other debris that will cause the outages. He said city workers will be clearing ditches and other areas to help prevent flooding.

He suggested that people living in low-lying and flood-prone areas, especially those in mobile homes, to consider relocating.

Peyton also said if the forecast should hold, substantial flooding should be expected. He said the storm surge alone will be 3 to 5 feet.

"This storm needs to be taken seriously," Peyton warned. "The idea is we need families to prepare for this storm."

Peyton said the city's emergency operations center will be fully operational Wednesday morning. He said he has spoken to Gov. Charlie Crist, who has promised any assistance the city needs, including use of the National Guard.

Other leaders in the region have been meeting about the storm, now known as Tropical Storm Fay, but no other announcements have been made.

Officials in Baker, Bradford, Clay, Putnam and Nassau counties announced no emergency measures earlier today, when the storm's strength and track were less certain. They said public schools will be open Wednesday. It's unclear if that will change based on the latest forecast.

St. Johns County public schools don't open until Friday, while Catholic schools in that county will be closed Wednesday. The district has canceled school-related activities that were already planned for Wednesday, including open houses, orientations and practices. Employees are expected to work unless they can't because of safety issues.

Catholic schools in the other jurisdictions will be open.

The news of emergency measures in Jacksonville came about 90 minutes after the National Hurricane Center issued a hurricane watch for Fay from Flagler Beach to Altamaha Sound in Southeast Georgia.

The storm is expected to emerge off the east coast of Florida near Daytona Beach on Wednesday and churn in the ocean before turning west, possibly hitting Northwest St. Johns County as a Category 1 hurricane just north of St. Augustine Thursday afternoon, said Phil Peterson, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service.

A Category 1 hurricane has winds of at least 75 mph an hour. Peterson said rainfall amounts could be at least 6 inches on the coast and lesser amounts inland. Significant beach erosion is possible.

Peterson said the unpredictable storm could strike south or north of the expected landfall point, depending on various weather conditions.

"There still is a lot of uncertainly with this forecast track," Peterson said.

Peterson said the current projection is for the storm to hit the coast and move west-northwest as a hurricane, passing just to the south of Jacksonville. It would then move across extreme North Florida before gradually weakening into a tropical storm and then a depression, Peterson said.

Well the city must be doing OK if we aren;t inlcuded in the disaster counties huh? Non need to spend gazillions of dollars afterall, just a couple thousand to save Corine's house!