| Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax |
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| Friday, 01 August 2008 | |
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Here are the Top Ten Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jacksonville. TOP TEN LAME REASONS TO DELAY MASS TRANSIT IN JAX 10. Everything has been said, but not everyone has said it. A two-year delay will enable us to hear more from the experts who predict that Bus Rapid Transit is still the next big thing. 9. True, the 15-year 'Better Jacksonville Transit Plan' would add light rail, commuter rail and more efficient bus routes. If we wait two years, though, it might include hydrogen-powered, personal hovercrafts, and lots of Bus Rapid Transit. That'd be cool. 8. Local media need an infusion of advertising cash from the developer of St. Johns Town Center, Markets at the Town Center, and any additional lobbying from the residents of Ponte Vedra Beach, who want another two years to tell you that freeways are still the best transportation for the region. No matter what. 7. More debate will give us more information. There's so much more to discuss, it just seems premature to have a vibrant light-rail system after only 40 years of talking about it. And it will allow people to learn more about Bus Rapid Transit! 6. There is so much room for new highways, it just makes sense to build new lanes. I-95 through downtown Jacksonville seems like it is ripe for a little *more* widening, even though it's still in the process of a much-needed widening anyway. And still bigger and better flyovers connecting it to I-10. And Bayard, the International Golf Village, and all points south are dying for that new 9B/I-795 spur right? Right??? 5. Mass transit is popular. So popular, you may not have a seat on the bus. If you can ever find one conveniently to catch and thus ride on. But standing all the way home improves your calf muscles and physical stamina. It also allows you to experience first-hand members of lower socio-economic classes that already ride on the buses. You know, JTA's 'target demographic.' 4. You can worry more about climate change. Need an extra two years to get your head around species collapse and widespread global drought? Waiting for mass transit will give you time to bone up on the latest news about how our indecision and bad habits are torching the planet. And it'll make you have a deeper desire for Bus Rapid Transit! 3. By waiting two years, we can do the same project but spend more than $1 billion more. With the price of everything going up — steel, concrete, gas — a delay will cost big bucks. But indecision The Better Jacksonville Transit Plan is worth it. Isn't it? 2. Congestion will only get worse. That leaves more time in the car to listen to talk-radio hosts jawbone about the conspiracy by the lefties to get everyone out of their cars and into mass transit; not on their own timetables, but on the government's. And the No. 1 reason why we should wait for mass transit ... 1. Pumping the car with $70 of gasoline feels more special when there isn't an alternative. Let's face it — gas prices aren't coming down. Why ruin gas-station heartburn by giving people a way out of their cars and into light rail? Better still, why not continue to support the family legacy of everyone's favorite darling-boy mayor?? Written by Metro Jacksonville Dicussion Board Member Doctor K |
August 1, 2008, 6:33 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I am a Christian and I am a conservative radio listener. Two labels that I feel are two strikes against me in this very liberal discussion site. However, I think you will find that most conservatives and Christians are not opposed to light rail or public transportation. Many of us would in fact support light rail. There is nothing liberal about supporting your city and it's economic viability. People with common sense know it is the only way a city will prosper. I do question equating a "progressive downtown" with alchohol. That's just my opinion.
Perhaps you and those who I think do a very good job of voicing your outstanding ideas and opinions regarding the much needed change in this city on this website should take your argument to where people might hear it. Like I said, I listen to talk radio sometimes. I don't know if there is a local issues radio station currently. There used to be. That might be a start. You are right on with your ideas but you are preaching to the choir on this website.
Find a medium to take your ideas to. Ock, Lake and the rest of you, I commend you for your reasonableness and I appreciate this website...take it to the next level, whatever it may be. Time to get rid of our mayor. I would even vote for a Dem if he had a vision.
August 1, 2008, 6:56 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
For those that have a problem with alcohol being served Downtown, why is it not a problem in the suburbs?
Is it less sinful there? Are drunks less disruptive there? Do people drink less in a suburban bar than an urban one?
As a born and breed (but reformed) Baptist, I understand the views against alcohol (although I think it is taken to an extreme). But I don't see the distinction of Downtown in this regard. I realize the largest DT property owner is First Baptist, but most cities have several churches in their DT and don't have this debate, not that I have noticed anyway.
I do agree that this forum needs to take it to the next level, that being direct political involvement. By that I mean endorsing candidates in support of our ideas, encouraging candidacies, and coordinating campaign contributions of labor and money.
August 1, 2008, 8:34 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Agreed. Metrojacksonville needs a political action committee - that puts forward and supports like-minded candidates.
August 1, 2008, 8:37 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Andy,
why do you feel you need to restrict alcohol? If you dont like to drink, then dont. Why must your value system, or more alarmingly, your church, dictate to those of us who like to have a drink from time to time when and where we have that drink?
BTW, I am also fairly conservative, but I tend to believe in personal responsibility, as opposed to church mandate.
August 1, 2008, 8:46 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
That's all I meant by that. I hope you (and others) don't read anymore into it.
August 1, 2008, 8:53 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
A PR initiative with the local media would be a good idea. I think this has happened in the past. There is not enough info out there about urban and transit issue.
August 1, 2008, 8:55 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I do agree that this forum needs to take it to the next level, that being direct political involvement. By that I mean endorsing candidates in support of our ideas, encouraging candidacies, and coordinating campaign contributions of labor and money.
I think that would be an awesome way to build support (bi-partisan at that) forward-thinking candidates of any party. Though I am very liberal, I am not blind in my support of political candidates. Give me a Repub who has good ideas on mass transit, crime, and city planning and I'll volunteer for the guy or lady.
August 1, 2008, 9:02 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
why do you feel you need to restrict alcohol? If you dont like to drink, then dont. Why must your value system, or more alarmingly, your church, dictate to the rest of the world how they should be living ?
August 1, 2008, 9:03 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I've never seen the issues discussed here as conservative or liberal. Who doesn't want a clean, livable and beautiful place to live? The enemy here is not a particular party, but rather apathy and a lack of planning. We're dealing mainly with the fallout from 50 years of both problems.
August 1, 2008, 9:30 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I don't get it AndyB, where does religion factor into urban planning? I am intrigued by your statement, and I would love for you to elaborate on what you mean by that. I am a Christian myself, but I don't see where hopping on a train would be influenced by that...
August 1, 2008, 10:28 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
When I posted the original article about Seattle I thought that could be Jax. Great rewrite Doctor K.
August 1, 2008, 10:30 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Thanks to the Seattle Times for providing the raw material, and to JeffreyS for providing the inspiration!
August 1, 2008, 10:41 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Andy I fully agree with you minus the alcohol thing. This site does tend to bring politics in way too much. It is articles like these that have brought my enthusiasm for the site way down, and I do understand it is hard to come up with stuff every day, but every time it seems that authors on this site are scrambling to come up with something, their true political agenda comes out, and so does their hatred for the mayor. I have never liked Peyton, and I believe most people feel the same way. His second vote in was due to voter apathy, not voters who actually wanted him in office. However, he is not so bad that he deserves repeated hatred and hatred for his father's company.
And why continually bash Ponte Vedra and the Town Center? Many citizens of PV are actually some of the most "progressive" people in the metro...they are, liberal and from the north. So if anything, many are probably missing the public transportation they used to have. Also, I know both of the developers of Town Center, and they are both very good guys. Town Center may not truly be urban, but right now it's about one of the best things we have in this city, and it has really played an important role in our economy, even kind of put us on a map.
August 1, 2008, 10:44 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Simms3, if you don't mind me asking. What, in your opinion, is the site's true political agenda?
August 1, 2008, 10:52 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Lakelander, you are very fair and balanced haha, but way too often extremely liberal discussion and views and conservative bashing comes out from several of the writers of this site and many of the posters, and while there is nothing technically wrong with that, why have all the hate. All of these issues are truly non-partisan, just because one is a democrat, or socialist lol, or atheist, or whatever, does not mean one has to hate or constantly criticize the other side. If this site wants to attract more fans and readers, do not bash half the potential. I have always been a fan and promoted this site to family and friends, most of whom are conservative. They really all like the site, but have mentioned to me a couple characters on here who are almost offensive to them and so I know that they just do not keep track as much as the could (or should haha).
August 1, 2008, 11:10 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I have to tell you simms, I dont see it.
August 1, 2008, 11:27 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
There is some liberal and conservative bashing going on in the politics section of the forum, but the articles published on the site do not contain any of that. I think people need to understand there is a distinction between the articles published and the comments posted by readers.
August 1, 2008, 11:29 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
^ Agree, Lunican.
It's like watching two rival wrestling stables posture and position, then let loose during the Main Event. The verbal Battle Royal matches that invariably erupt make me glad I've got ready access to microwave popcorn so I can munch while enjoying the match and the drama unfold.
Simms3 - some of the freedoms we enjoy in this country are A) the ability to elect our leaders, and B) the guaranteed freedom-of-speech right to criticize them and their leadership openly. Are politics too-often involved? Probably. It's par for the course though. Left-wingers, Communists, Socialists, and self-styled 'Progressives' are just as good at it and guilty of it as are Right-wingers, Libertarians, Neo- and Paleo-conservatives. It's not ideal, but it's reality.
The Mayor has been, at the end of the day, not very effective in terms of his leadership. As mentioned on another thread, yes - he's done some good things. The childrens' reading program is a good thing.
But being practically silent on issues like mass transit, the fabric and character of the urban core, crime - not to mention being guilty of playing politics (like almost EVERY other politician in the history of the planet; at all points along the political spectrum) - has not endeared himself to a significant portion of the population who are NOT politically apathetic.
Thus, threads like this develop. I have nothing personal against the mayor. On a personal level, he's never done anything to me. On a polticial level, he's not been stellar. I voted for him, so I feel I have a right to criticize should I feel the urge.
August 1, 2008, 11:39 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
As other areas of Florida become built out.Jacksonville will only grow faster leading to more congestion.My plan would turn the Convention Center into a Transportation Hub.The main structure would support light rail and Amtrack.Next to the skyway, connected by a concourse from the main terminal would be a ground transportation hub.With a JTA Hub for buses and a new Greyhound terminal.Also there would be an electric street car line running from Union station along Water and Bay street to Jaguar Stadium.This would the key to bring business to this area.We can not wait till the Jacksonville area is bursting at the seems to have a Plan....Portland Oregon (a city with a similar population) has done a wonderful job with transportation. OUR LEADERS COULD LEARN A LOT FROM THEM!!!!http://portlandmall.org/video/simulation/index.htm
August 1, 2008, 11:52 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Optimus Prime Osbourne approves of the transportation hub idea.
http://www.jacksonvilleconfidential.com/2008/06/optimus-prime-convention-center.html
August 1, 2008, 12:01 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I don't see this website as being political. Everyone on here seems to want a better city and hold the politicians accountable and have them view planning from a different perspective rather than from the automobile and suburbs. I listen to talk radio when I am at work. I have never heard them talk about mass transit. They do talk frequently about government waste. Transit will always be subsidized and operate at a big loss. If we had a well planned system like the Metro in D.C. you would have "preferred riders" as JTA calls them using mass transit in Jacksonville. These are people that would normally drive a car but take mass transit because it is cost effective and convenient. A transit system that is poorly planned will be critisized by moderates or conservatives because basically all you are doing is shifting ridership from bus to rail. You aren't taking any cars off the road!!! If you are taking people of the road from the people that will never use mass transiit it will be an easier sell. In Jacksonville you are not taking any cars off the road because the system doesn't offer Transit Oriented Development or stations where people work or live. They still have to drive to the station, take transit and then transfer when they get to their location. It is to much of a hassle. They would rather drive even if it cost $4.00/gallon. Ironically the most expensive real estate in D.C. is located near the Metro stations. They are setting all time ridership records. I checked their website a few days ago. They are consistently averaging 800,000 plus on rail and another 400,000 on bus. The skyway is averaging 1-2k riders a day. That is embarassing. Decisions on infastructure and public facilities in D.C. are always located near Metro stations. Anyone who has not used their system it is in my opinion the best in the country. Both rail and bus operate on frequent schedules. You can get where you want to go efficiently. The system operate at a loss but much less than most other transit agencies. JTA is a complete waste of taxpayer money. The consultant JTA has hired. If you chat with him when he doesn't have his talking points in front of him he is pretty reasonable. Maybe MetroJacksonville should hire him to endorse rail and TOD.
August 1, 2008, 12:07 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Remember roads are always the biggest subsidized segment of transit.
August 1, 2008, 12:12 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Yep! I almost put that in my comments.
August 1, 2008, 1:35 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Preferred riders, quality riders, or choice riders, it isn't JTA speak, it is industry-speak for ANYONE that would normally use an automobile, but becomes a convert to mass transit. It does NOT mean that any one person, group or social status is preferred over another, as people of all stripes own cars. It is simply a gauge to say how many cars stayed in the garage due to quality transit. In Jacksonville, we need to work much harder to attract them whatever you want to call them.
Federal Spending by mode:
2003 (In Millions of Dollars)
Total 66,877
Highway 30,886
Transit 8,244
Rail 1,264
Air 13,938
Water 5,925
Pipeline 63
General Support 6,557
You can buy a whole lot of tugboats for each Amtrak Engine you get
By the way, also a Christian - but secure enough not to worry about small stuff... WWJD maybe build the church right across the street from the bar? club? bordello? After all, wouldn't it be great if some of "them" wandered inside?
OCKLAWAHA
August 1, 2008, 8:34 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
For those of you who mis-read my comment...please read it again. I did not say alchohol should be restricted did I? I believe I qualified it by saying it was my opinion that one should not equate progressiveness with alchohol. (Perhaps it is my own personal experience that drives that point home with me.) I understand alcohol is available everywhere in this city, including the suburbs. I am not promoting a ban on alcohol downtown. I don't know that it is a sin to drink...I have an occasional beer myself. I did not raise that point. It's not my place to judge.
I simply believe that having a downtown that is family friendly is going to attract more people to the downtown area than one that is lined with nightclubs and pubs. Is that a bad thing? Is the downtown lifestyle restricted to the young single elite or do you want it to be a place where all people feel welcome and comfortable?
My main point was not this at all. My main point was to take your very good arguments for light rail and trolley systems to the mediums where people where hear them. I tried to find a local radio station that airs local issues and was not very successful. That is too bad. Perhaps if people stuck on I-95 or I-10 heard about this it would gain great momentum. How about billboards?
I will clarify one other point I made. There are many conservatives and many Christians that have influence on the make-up of this town. That is not a point of argument - it is fact. One way to make an impact on those people is to respect their opinion and ideas, not trash them like I have seen so many times on this website. Don't alienate the very people you will need on your side to make these changes happen.
I enjoy this site. I want you to make the changes you are advocating and I want to help. Keep up the good fight!
AndyB
August 1, 2008, 10:15 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Fair enough. Sorry to jump :-)
I think your point is a fair one. Entertainment is but one aspect. Places to live would be another. Low income, medium income, high income.
Nice parks for those residents to use. Dog parks, recreations parks, decorative parks with plantings and statues. Streets lined with interesting things and places to look at. Stores, restaurants, gyms, lounges, bars, studios, whatever, you name it.
The trick to being vibrant isnt as simple as pubs, its multi faceted, and attainable by people from all walks of life.
August 2, 2008, 1:19 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Perhaps you and those who I think do a very good job of voicing your outstanding ideas and opinions regarding the much needed change in this city on this website should take your argument to where people might hear it. Like I said, I listen to talk radio sometimes. I don't know if there is a local issues radio station currently. There used to be. That might be a start. You are right on with your ideas but you are preaching to the choir on this website.
Find a medium to take your ideas to. Ock, Lake and the rest of you, I commend you for your reasonableness and I appreciate this website...take it to the next level, whatever it may be. Time to get rid of our mayor. I would even vote for a Dem if he had a vision.
Hey Andy..I didn't see anything in there about Christians? I agree the "heads" of this site should hit other outlets, but I think most of them have tried. It always seemed to me that the "powers that be" in Jacksonville are some how connected. And I think they protect each other from the progressive "MetroJax.com types" Its just seems certain things that are NEVER EVER criticized in that city of Jacksonville, things that a lot people have issues with, only to be told you don't like it move. Examples: JTA, First Baptist control of downtown, Flordia Gator coverage vs Jacksonville Jaguar coverage, The Mayor's office, The Sheriff's office, Times Union, road work in so called bad neighborhoods that never get fixed even after BJP. Everyone has their list Andy..the list of the PROTECTED names/brands/companies of Jacksonville.
August 2, 2008, 2:03 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
AndyB
What a sec......why should we respect their opinion? Is is because its backwards?? Help me understand this Andy. The people in power need to have their asses kissed to make changes? How do you alienate the MAJORITY? I'm so glad you post here man. Seriously maybe you can help some of US, understand THEM? I don't care about the Christains vs Devilworship or whatever you keep bringing up christians for, but man people with vision and the ability to make the future better for Jax need to be in power, not Billy Bob's nephew n dem. The Leaders need to be thinkers and doers. Rich boy from long money times 12 runs the city and the city's counsel, they live in Mandarin or Ortega, filling their tank daily is easy, when they want to have REAL FUN they travel, while regular guy is sick of the gas prices, sick of being bored, sick of the same old same old, can't keep up with inflation and all the regular folks are suppose "respect the opinion and ideas" of those that DON'T have any idea??
Heroes in a halfshell. TURTLE POWER!
August 2, 2008, 7:43 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
AndyB
What a sec......why should we respect their opinion? Is is because its backwards?? Help me understand this Andy. The people in power need to have their asses kissed to make changes? How do you alienate the MAJORITY? I'm so glad you post here man. Seriously maybe you can help some of US, understand THEM? I don't care about the Christains vs Devilworship or whatever you keep bringing up christians for, but man people with vision and the ability to make the future better for Jax need to be in power, not Billy Bob's nephew n dem. The Leaders need to be thinkers and doers. Rich boy from long money times 12 runs the city and the city's counsel, they live in Mandarin or Ortega, filling their tank daily is easy, when they want to have REAL FUN they travel, while regular guy is sick of the gas prices, sick of being bored, sick of the same old same old, can't keep up with inflation and all the regular folks are suppose "respect the opinion and ideas" of those that DON'T have any idea??
Heroes in a halfshell. TURTLE POWER!
Light rail rocks! We need it, it should have already been here, and more money should not be wasted on BRT.
Whole point being disagreement and debate can occur with out personal attacks and name calling which happens all to often within the comments here. With the exception of a few "personal wars" I would not include, without fail anyone with a less than liberal opinion is called names and personally attacked. It has happened to me and I am not even conservative!
Respect the opinion and ideas"
Does not mean you need to agree, just that you should listen, and if you disagree calmly and responsibly debate your position. This can be done without name calling and personal attacks. Take for instance this thread. AndyB stated he was a conservative Christian, he also stated he didn't think the downtown should revolve around alcohol, several regulars jumped on those comments and made the assumption he wanted to ban alcohol downtown. At least in this case no one called AndyB a name, just assumed they knew what he was all about and ran with it. If some of the other regulars were posting here AndyB would of have been torn apart, called names, and degenerated for being a conservative Christian. If you still don’t see it I would be more than happy to go pull some comments made by "regulars" towards conservative Christians on other threads. While the articles are excellent (got me reading this forum years ago!) and most of the founders are sincere and intelligent there are some that should be curbed if you want any true discussions representing the diverse population of the city.
August 2, 2008, 6:38 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Once again this site is full of odd comments. Case in point:
Colyfett,
I live in Ortega, thanks for showing your ignorance. There are plenty of people in Ortega and Mandarin that pay attention to this site and want to participate as well, until they read comments like yours that seem to always pop up. This site originally seemed to be more constructive, now it is full of emotional people that let all of their thoughts and opinions fly without thinking of a way to more reasonably get a point across. I would venture to say that you do not even know many people that live in the neighborhoods that you so hate. If you want to make change in this city, the way to do it is not to appear uneducated and offensive to those actually in power. There is always authority in the world and people in higher places, learn how to get their attention in a good light so that maybe they will listen.
I agree with the motives of the developers of this site, but let's not be rash or emotional. Let's remain cool, calm, and collected, and maybe everyone will be happy to work together on these issues.
August 2, 2008, 6:53 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
I just found this thread, and thought I would make a comment.
One of the things that I think we can be proud of on this site is that there is a definite representation of most of the people who live here in Jacksonville amongst its posters, liberal, conservative, apolitical, social and anti social.
I think any person would be hard pressed to call metrojacksonville, even at its most political as either a 'liberal' or 'conservative', if only because there are so many eloquent representations of all sides of the discussions represented.
Primarily though, the site is above political philosophy and is simply about civic betterment and urban planning with an eye to making this city a better place to live.
Efficient public transit, great places to eat and hang out, a sense of belonging and history, well lit streets relatively free of crime and the type of central based development that encourages low taxes are neither conservative nor liberal, and they serve all of us, regardless of our politics, faith, or lifestyle choices equally.
I think it has probably been a decade or three since our society has really been used to public debate. Especially in a city like our which has seperated into little social groups of mostly likeminded people who have sometimes very little difference of opinion.
We werent always like this. The civic manners of our society go back to town hall meetings and the underpinnings of democracy and I really do think that forums like this recreate the old conventions of polite debate.
I know that I have learned a whole lot over the past two years of discussion on this site that has changed my opinion and informed my perceptions of the world around me, and I certainly recommend being wrong occasionally to anyone on here.
I love Coolyfett's posts, and I love that andy and simms3 are comfortable responding with a completely different take and point of view.
In my own humble opinion, this is the way it should be.
Certainly from these discussions have come real palpable changes. Sometimes in the policy, more often than not the framing of the public conversation. The very best things that have come from this site have all been collaborations, and the editorial board is as different from each other as the rest of the posters in the forums. Its been the differing and therefore moderating influence of opposing ideas that has informed the most sensible proposals to come out of our process.
Every now and then we get someone who jumps on a high horse and will try and shut down conversation or productive discourse, thats just the way humans are in groups, but on this site it tends to be self correcting.
I think because all of us are here because we want a better place and world to live in. We might not agree on the specifics, but therein lies the remarkably large number of great ideas that get proposed.
August 2, 2008, 7:10 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Does not mean you need to agree, just that you should listen, and if you disagree calmly and responsibly debate your position. This can be done without name calling and personal attacks. Take for instance this thread. AndyB stated he was a conservative Christian, he also stated he didn't think the downtown should revolve around alcohol, several regulars jumped on those comments and made the assumption he wanted to ban alcohol downtown. At least in this case no one called AndyB a name, just assumed they knew what he was all about and ran with it. If some of the other regulars were posting here AndyB would of have been torn apart, called names, and degenerated for being a conservative Christian. If you still don’t see it I would be more than happy to go pull some comments made by "regulars" towards conservative Christians on other threads. While the articles are excellent (got me reading this forum years ago!) and most of the founders are sincere and intelligent there are some that should be curbed if you want any true discussions representing the diverse population of the city.
Uptown Girl, I would definitely think that this is a gross overstatement.
There are many people on this site who are conservative Christians. Just as many who totally arent.
Asperity crawls into a discussion every now and then. Certainly over the past two years, our non christian and seperately our liberal posters have been ganged up on and offended just as brutally.
Its why we insist on civility.
I think its an instructive thing for all of us to remember that respect is a two way street which in very few exceptions is the norm here.
August 2, 2008, 9:27 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
The fact that people sometimes go overboard on this site is fine by me. Most of the threads on this site are polite. The occassional fights between the bed wetting libs and war mongering neocons are for entertainment purposes only.
August 2, 2008, 10:34 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
So much for the mass transit comments....thought that is what the topic was guess not
August 2, 2008, 10:57 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
This tread wandered a bit.
August 2, 2008, 11:21 pm
Let's TRY this again...
Okay, F O C U S P E O P L E ! Let's try the topic for a change? Eh?
"LAST TRANSIT COMMENT, QUIET ON THE SET, QUIET! TAKE 23, SCENE 2, MARKER..."
Preferred riders, quality riders, or choice riders, it isn't JTA speak, it is industry-speak for ANYONE that would normally use an automobile, but becomes a convert to mass transit. It does NOT mean that any one person, group or social status is preferred over another, as people of all stripes own cars. It is simply a gauge to say how many cars stayed in the garage due to quality transit. In Jacksonville, we need to work much harder to attract them whatever you want to call them.
Federal Spending by mode:
2003 (In Millions of Dollars)
Total 66,877
Highway 30,886
Transit 8,244
Rail 1,264
Air 13,938
Water 5,925
Pipeline 63
General Support 6,557
You can buy a whole lot of tugboats for each Amtrak Engine you get
Since this thread started there has been a landslide of news on Transit funding and lack there-of. We are looking at a very interesting year, and a chance at real change. By the way, Virginia just decided to start an Arlington Streetcar Taxation District, to fund Light Rail on the Dixie side of DC. I can post more if you'd like.
OCKLAWAHA
August 2, 2008, 11:59 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Please post more about Virginia's Streetcar Taxation District. What are they doing to gain FTA funding or are they going about it on their own?
August 3, 2008, 12:11 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
LAKE, I'm crawling to the keyboard as it is, just finished the bulk of the move, just the clean up to go tomorrow... But I'll post it soon.
MEANWHILE:
THE GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILROAD, in Portland as promised... Again, gone but not forgotten:
Portland Grand Trunk Station
Grand Trunks PINE TREE EXPRESS
Today the site of the Union Station is overgrown rubble and some dead end rail spurs not unlike Jacksonville Terminal,
Grand Trunk is nothing more then a couple of tracks with some historical society equipment slowly rusting away faster then donations can keep them painted.
Sad.
WE CAN DO BETTER THEN THIS JACKSONVILLE!
OCKLAWAHA
August 3, 2008, 9:53 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Mass transit would be the key to take Jax to the next tier of major cities...lets keep fighting the fight someone will listen!!!
August 3, 2008, 10:39 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
lets also keep pushing for downtown to be the place to live:::: comments from the Hard Rock topic: Well first thing is first ...Lets get a place to go downtown.Turn the Shipyards into a center piece of downtown.Bring in many different restaurants,clubs,an Imax theater.Maybe an Island of clubs on the St Johns.Similar to Downtown Disney.Add in many boat slips and some other attractions like a Dry docked naval carrier like the JFK or some other mothballed navy vessel.Use our current Convention center for a transit hub and build a new convention center on the old JEA site across the river.This way you would only have to take a river taxi across.Have live entertainers all over the shipyards.....Give us somewhere to take out of town guests.It is a great location close to the sports complex. lets face it the landing is a joke!!!! bring in a Hard Rock,Planet Hollywood,and mix with some local flavor ....Boselli's nice!!!! How about a Shooters on the water?!!!see http://www.faneuilhallmarketplace.com/ or http://www.harborplace.com Boston and Baltimore
August 4, 2008, 1:16 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Rail should be an easy sell to the politicians these days. It's cheaper and increases property values.
Equation - Cost less than current mass transit and generates more revenue. StJohnsGuy has some really good ideas. I think they are very ambitious but worth striving for. Many cities with far more and less than our population have achieved a vibrant urban core. We don't have an excuse purely based on our populations. We just have to change the mindset. We can achieve a vibrant downtown core. Be vigilant in supporting downtown businesses. Contact your city council reps. It will make a difference.
August 5, 2008, 7:56 am
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
CHARLOTTE HAS A PLAN...... http://publications.ingagepublication.com/charlottelightrail/DigitalPublication.php?width=1270&height=715 WAY TO GO JTA AND CITY LEADERS...THAT IS WHY CHARLOTTE HAS LEFT US IN THE DUST CITY WITH VISION
August 5, 2008, 9:46 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Whole point being disagreement and debate can occur with out personal attacks and name calling which happens all to often within the comments here. With the exception of a few "personal wars" I would not include, without fail anyone with a less than liberal opinion is called names and personally attacked. It has happened to me and I am not even conservative!
Respect the opinion and ideas"
Does not mean you need to agree, just that you should listen, and if you disagree calmly and responsibly debate your position. This can be done without name calling and personal attacks. Take for instance this thread. AndyB stated he was a conservative Christian, he also stated he didn't think the downtown should revolve around alcohol, several regulars jumped on those comments and made the assumption he wanted to ban alcohol downtown. At least in this case no one called AndyB a name, just assumed they knew what he was all about and ran with it. If some of the other regulars were posting here AndyB would of have been torn apart, called names, and degenerated for being a conservative Christian. If you still don’t see it I would be more than happy to go pull some comments made by "regulars" towards conservative Christians on other threads. While the articles are excellent (got me reading this forum years ago!) and most of the founders are sincere and intelligent there are some that should be curbed if you want any true discussions representing the diverse population of the city.
Uptown...hopefully you don't feel I was name calling @ Andy. Its just Andy stuck up for the turtles and that sorta irritated me. As far as the MJ.com beefs hey its good for the site, they are grown adults let them say what they need to say. I don't know any of these guys, but ID LIKE TO SEE JACKSONVILLE PROGRESS, I'm not on the side of this religion or that religion, Liberal or conservation. Id just like to see PROGRESS. PERIOD. Why being a Christian was even brought up I don't know, but Progress should have nothing to do with religion. Ill read opinions, but If I feel it backwards ill speak on it. Jacksonville has a lot that it NEEDS, if you are 20 right now when will you be able to enjoy those NEEDS? at 50? Time is ticking, we are all getting older and the powers that be, waste a lot of time. That's been my consistent issue with Jacksonville as a city. The "wasting of time" way of life. People need to get busy. Peace to you.
August 5, 2008, 10:07 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Colyfett,
I live in Ortega, thanks for showing your ignorance. There are plenty of people in Ortega and Mandarin that pay attention to this site and want to participate as well, until they read comments like yours that seem to always pop up. This site originally seemed to be more constructive, now it is full of emotional people that let all of their thoughts and opinions fly without thinking of a way to more reasonably get a point across. I would venture to say that you do not even know many people that live in the neighborhoods that you so hate. If you want to make change in this city, the way to do it is not to appear uneducated and offensive to those actually in power. There is always authority in the world and people in higher places, learn how to get their attention in a good light so that maybe they will listen.
I agree with the motives of the developers of this site, but let's not be rash or emotional. Let's remain cool, calm, and collected, and maybe everyone will be happy to work together on these issues.
Ignorance? Plenty? lol you are reading what you want to read. I wasn't bashing Ortega or Mandarin, my point being if you live in those areas why would you care about nightlife in downtown? If you don't spend a lot of time in San Marco, Riverside or Springfield why would you really be interested (NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU SIMMS, just saying) If you are a member of city counsel or that establishment THEN YES, I am talking about you, if not your cool. Stephan Dare already made a bus riding topic stating some of the backward issues of the city's transportation...and most of it was sugar coated he only road for a MONTH, trying doing it for 6. I still give him props for doing the month though.
Looks simms, I don't know exactly what you are about, I don't know ya to call ya ignorant, but COOLYFETT is about PROGRESS----NBA, MLB, TRAINS/skyway/heavyrail, Major company skyscrapers, Tourism, Amusement parks, Naval bases, Downtown night life, public events...etc things that bring the people together, things that help, options. My religion, sexuality, political belief, is my biz some folks on here share, i'm just focused on the agenda of progress. take it easy. peace
August 5, 2008, 10:20 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Interesting... hey man what tier is Jacksonville at now? What is the tier based on?
August 5, 2008, 10:40 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Equation - Cost less than current mass transit and generates more revenue. StJohnsGuy has some really good ideas. I think they are very ambitious but worth striving for. Many cities with far more and less than our population have achieved a vibrant urban core. We don't have an excuse purely based on our populations. We just have to change the mindset. We can achieve a vibrant downtown core. Be vigilant in supporting downtown businesses. Contact your city council reps. It will make a difference.
LOL LOL I like StJohnguys ambition!!! It's weird some of those political guys still don't want the expansion of trains. I read the local paper here in GA, and the governor here WAS against it. Now he is for it. Maybe it takes peer pressure. It makes sense to have a legit system in many metros across the county, with a National system (amtrak) connecting all the little systems. I learned about TODs on this site, LAKE pimps em all the time. TODs make a lot of sense as well. Driving can be a hassle, or least it has become so for me. Traffic, accidents, bike riders, police radars, pollution, GAS PRICES, road rage, etc...everyone has their own list. Nothing like hitting the train with my psp and just relaxing till my station comes up. Walking to where I'm going, knowing when I get back the train will come...Not like BUSES that have the same issues cars have. Ive finally meet some progressive errrr "driving hating women" to meet at different spots to hang out. Don't have to drive 285 for the date, the train makes it easier. Still some spots that need stations but time will tell. gas is 3.84 for 87 octane. Still too high for me.
August 6, 2008, 1:59 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
Jacksonville has no tier, unless you call waiting for a bus on a burning hot bench for an hour Mass Transit!!!...My tier is based on my travels to cities with transit such as Portland Oregon.I am just trying to help Jacksonville by giving ideas and support for light rail,street cars,ect
August 6, 2008, 3:11 pm
Re: Top Ten Lame Reasons to Delay Mass Transit in Jax
If you divide the largest cities into 3 tiers, I think you would have NY, Chicago and LA as Tier 1; Atlanta, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and some others as Tier 2 and Jacksonville would be in Tier 3 along with cities like Memphis, Louisville, Richmond, Sacramento. Jacksonville can move into Tier 2 with continued population growth and added amenities, including better mass transit.
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