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Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City Print E-mail
Monday, 07 July 2008

Last month, JTA released maps showing initial locations for potential commuter rail stations.  A lack of focus on Jacksonville's inner city communities stands out as a major oversight.  The following list contains a few areas where urban rail stations should not be avoided.

 Park & King


Transit dependent North Riverside and Riverside's Park & King District are within a five minute walk of this location.  St. Vincents Medical Center also serves as a major employment destination in the middle of a walkable and densely populated area of town. 

A station here would allow for further infill and economic development in an area that could definitely use it, as well as offer possibilities of a working public/private relationship with St. Vincents and the Park & King Association for conveinent transit connections.
 

 
NAS Jax


With 23,000 civilian and active-duty personnel employed on the base, NAS Jax is easily the First Coast's largest employer.  Despite this fact, a station here was omitted in favor of a stop at Timquanana Road and Roosevelt.  Rail is only as successful as its ability to efficiently serve major destinations.  In Jacksonville, NAS Jax would qualify as a major destination.

 


Atlantic Blvd. (San Marco Square)

Currently, the proposal calls for a rail station at San Marco Blvd. and Prudential Drive, bypassing Atlantic Blvd.  However, the San Marco Blvd. location is already served by the Skyway and soon, JTA's Bus Rapid Transit system. 

On the other hand, San Marco Square remains disconnected from the rest of the core with limited transit access despite continuing to grow as a major walkable urban commercial district.  Instead of competing against two other transit systems on the Southbank, commuter rail should complement the existing transit system by improving access to popular urban destinations, such as San Marco Square. 

For improved access to Baptist Medical, JTA should seriously consider a pedestrian bridge from the Skyway's San Marco Station, over the Acosta Bridge and the railroad tracks to Baptist Medical Center and the Aetna Tower.

 

The S-Line


While many relate rail transit to only moving residents across the community, it is also a powerful motivator of economic development.  One major benefit to relaying track on the S-Line is the potential to redistribute economic growth back to blighted areas of the urban core where sufficient infrastructure and building fabric is already in place. 

Despite rail transit's proven track record of bringing economic prosperity to older sections of cities, the current rail station locations fail to take advantage of this opportunity.  Here are a few locations along the S-Line that should not be ignored.

City of Jacksonville owned S-Line abandoned rail right of way highlighted in green.
 

S-Line Photo Tour Article:  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/334/116/

 


Myrtle Avenue

Myrtle Avenue remains a major commercial spine connecting many of the city's densest communities.  The S-Line happens to cross Myrtle only a few feet from where the street intersects with two other major highways, Beaver Street and New Kings Road. Within this district, a station would benefit from having both the Jacksonville Farmer's Market and Edward Waters College within walking distance, as well as redevelopment opportunities in a turn of the century industrial district, enabling jobs to return back to this area of town.

 

Shands Jacksonville


Maps currently show a station location at Moncrief Avenue.  However, a major redevelopment opportunity exists a few short blocks to the east where the S-Line abuts the 'Bloody Block' and Shands Jacksonville.  If rail is to return to the S-Line, a station at Shands along with a transit oriented development replacing the 'Bloody Block' would create an energetic economic activity center.

 

 

Springfield Warehouse District


Maps currently illustrate a potential station a few blocks to the North at 21st Street.  One problem with this location is that the Martin Luther King Expressway makes it an isolated destination despite being located near many dense communities. 

A shift to Liberty Street makes the station accessible to Swisher, a major Northside employer, as well as the Springfield Warehouse District, creating the potential for the redevelopment of a large section of urban Jacksonville.

 

Ultimately, rail transit in Jacksonville will only be as successful as its ability to link riders with popular destinations within walking distance from the tracks.  A usable commuter rail system must take advantage of Urban Jacksonville's existing assets.

 
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>> 16 Comments
billy
July 7, 2008, 11:11 am
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

Springfield Warehouse District is a cool place.
What about the old rail that went over to east Union Street/
thelakelander
July 7, 2008, 11:20 am
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

The old F&J is not a part of the three commuter rail routes chosen for the study, but it has potential in that we could build an inner city rail loop that would start downtown, hit a few Northside neighborhoods (S-Line/Shands) before heading south towards the Stadium District and running on Bay or Water Street to get back to the Prime Osborn.  Ock has mentioned it on several occassions throughout the past year or two.  It could also be a solution similar to Charlotte's where light rail and streetcars use the same line.  The streetcars make shorter stops, while the light rail line makes limited stops in the same area.

Caltrain in the Bay Area also runs a similar styled service with commuter rail trains.  Some trains stop at stations spaced a mile a part, while a Baby Bullet service travels at a higher speed, stopping at a select few station locations between Downtown and the suburbs.

Traveller
July 7, 2008, 11:36 am
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

A stop at NAS should be a no-brainer.  I don't see the point in a Timuquana Road station unless it serves as a destination for a bus route along 103rd/Timuquana.  Plus, a station at the Yorktown Gate would serve the new warehouse/industrial park developing at that intersection, as well as provide pedestrian or bike access to Tillie Fowler Park.
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 11:40 am
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

The more I study it the more I'm convinced the way to go is with streetcar from Gateway Mall - 21St St Station - straight south to the old Union Street Warehouse - Beaver - Newnan - Water - Union Station

Then:

Some form of LRT or standard DMU or Commuter Rail from Yulee - Airport - 21St St. - Shands - Union Station

In this plan we get two modes to grow with, plus 21St becomes a vital junction Station, Park and Ride, and retail/residential attraction.


Ocklawaha
thelakelander
July 7, 2008, 12:04 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

The only negative with 21st is the warehouse district and New Springfield remain blighted, due to them being cut off from the station by MLK Parkway.  So we get the rail, with less ability to economically revitalize an ideal section of the urban grid.


The red circle indicates 1/4 mile walk radius from station centerpoint.  JTA's maps indicate warehouse district station at Main.  I'm shifting it over to the large S-Line ROW between Market and Liberty Streets.
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:07 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
A stop at NAS should be a no-brainer.  I don't see the point in a Timuquana Road station unless it serves as a destination for a bus route along 103rd/Timuquana.  Plus, a station at the Yorktown Gate would serve the new warehouse/industrial park developing at that intersection, as well as provide pedestrian or bike access to Tillie Fowler Park.

A station should be located at both places. Remember there is no rule that EVERY train must stop at the station. But access to 103Rd for Bus Transit, as well as the base of Ortega, is just as vital to good transit health as a stop at Yukon.

YUKON?

Yes! It has a name, had a Post Office, is still on the railroad map as YUKON. The depot sat in front of the Main Gate of NAS. The area that is now a park, was once a busy little town. Crossing the tracks a bit north of the Main Gate will bring one into a virtual Ghost town. Only the pub, restaurant and tiny church survive. The church came from Black Point out on the River where NAS is today. It was moved when the Army took over the land in WWI. The Yukon Depot itself also survives, high and dry, somewhat altered and repainted. It is about 1/4 mile South of Orange Park Mall, on the left (EAST) side of Blanding. The Navy closed out the town in the 1960's as a flight hazard, then gave the land to Jacksonville for a park. In the early year of WWII, it is said there were Submarine Nests directly West of Yukon, in the Ortega River. Well hidden, it would explain a bunch of piles in the water and the extreme depth. Here is a shot of YUKON's, Dewey Park Housing neighborhood in 1940... Imagine, we play Tennis and baseball there today!





OCKLAWAHA



Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:12 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

Agree Lake, The trouble is the Streetcar, IF it were built that way, would not access the Liberty Street Station. But the Commuter Rail Could. There is no rule that should wipe out one or the other, in fact with a Jersey River Line, San Diego, or Austin type DMU, both stops + shands should be built.

Further, this is URBAN JACKSONVILLE, JTA could hardly expect stations 1-2 miles apart in the core. Past 21St street Northbound that Commuter Train could fly. The streetcar itself might reach 45 or 50 to Gateway on that NW angle, depending on a stop at North Main.


Ocklawaha
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:19 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

BTW, Norfolk Southern works the line daily... but only ONE JOB. Meaning nothing else uses the line. They go in in the lazy late AM and are out by 1-3PM daily.

The crews say the Train Master is looking for another job to come online if and when something is done at the port terminals... coal or container fuss.


Derail, does just what it says and they protect 1,000's of miles of track from roll-aways or run-throughs.

Meanwhile, I did the birds eye and hoofed it, it IS POSSIBLE to come up from Beaver, pass through the old Springfield Yard and enter the 21St St Station with only ONE AT GRADE CROSSING. That would be the NS just behind Swisher. Signals, and a DERAIL set against either line during off hours would protect the Light Rail or Streetcars.


Ocklawaha
thelakelander
July 7, 2008, 12:19 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YUKON?

Yes! It has a name, had a Post Office, is still on the railroad map as YUKON. The depot sat in front of the Main Gate of NAS. The area that is now a park, was once a busy little town. Crossing the tracks a bit north of the Main Gate will bring one into a virtual Ghost town. Only the pub, restaurant and tiny church survive. The church came from Black Point out on the River where NAS is today. It was moved when the Army took over the land in WWI. The Yukon Depot itself also survives, high and dry, somewhat altered and repainted. It is about 1/4 mile South of Orange Park Mall, on the left (EAST) side of Blanding. The Navy closed out the town in the 1960's as a flight hazard, then gave the land to Jacksonville for a park. In the early year of WWII, it is said there were Submarine Nests directly West of Yukon, in the Ortega River. Well hidden, it would explain a bunch of piles in the water and the extreme depth. Here is a shot of YUKON's, Dewey Park Housing neighborhood in 1940... Imagine, we play Tennis and baseball there today!
OCKLAWAHA

Wow.  I never knew Yukon was a town with buildings on that side of the tracks.  I always assumed it was just a rail stop next to the base.
thelakelander
July 7, 2008, 12:27 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

BTW, Norfolk Southern works the line daily... but only ONE JOB. Meaning nothing else uses the line. They go in in the lazy late AM and are out by 1-3PM daily.

The crews say the Train Master is looking for another job to come online if and when something is done at the port terminals... coal or container fuss.


Derail, does just what it says and they protect 1,000's of miles of track from roll-aways or run-throughs.

Meanwhile, I did the birds eye and hoofed it, it IS POSSIBLE to come up from Beaver, pass through the old Springfield Yard and enter the 21St St Station with only ONE AT GRADE CROSSING. That would be the NS just behind Swisher. Signals, and a DERAIL set against either line during off hours would protect the Light Rail or Streetcars.


Ocklawaha

NS is expecting a new job at the old paper mill site, if the lawsuit between Keystone and Jaxport is ever cleared up.  Keystone wants to turn the site into a coal terminal and the port wants it to expand its container operation I believe.
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:36 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

Dating myself again, but yes, it was quite extensive. I had some little friends when I was quite small that lived there. We lived in Ortega, and Dad was a Navy Exchange Officer. I don't remember who they were or how I met them today, but I do remember what seemed like miles of concrete "T" posts between the back yards for clothes lines.

I also recall a narrow one lane brick highway with tiny concrete curbs near the track in the NE of the old Post Office. It might still be there. Mr. Willis Butts a local Millionaire, and lifetime resident said it was remains of the "Old Orange Park Highway". I can't figure where it came over the tracks North of Yukon, if that is true.


Ocklawaha
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:38 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

NS is pulling hard for the Coal deal, but I think they'd do well either way as long as we don't cut them out of the loading zone for containers as is our history.

Ocklawaha
Lunican
July 18, 2008, 4:32 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

By the way, this exact plan was created by Metro Jacksonville in December 2006.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/272/
stephendare
July 18, 2008, 4:35 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

By the way, this exact plan was created by Metro Jacksonville in December 2006.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/272/

How much did JTA spend to have the consulting company xerox our plan for them?
tufsu1
July 18, 2008, 10:49 pm
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

$400,000...the difference is they have the hard data (socioeconomic data, traffic forecasts, etc.) to back up the recommendations....all of which are necessary to get state and/or federal $
thelakelander
July 19, 2008, 6:03 am
Re: Commuter Rail: Overlooking the Inner City

Hopefully, we won't lock ourselves into only considering state and/or federal funding as a resource to get a starter up and running locally.  More and more cities are figuring out, if they want something done soon, they're going to have to find ways to move forward before jumping through the years of hopes the federal government throughs at them.  Houston, Austin, Detroit, etc. are all examples of cities that have or are working to get the initial lines up, despite not gaining federal (or in Houston's case, even State assistance) dollars before getting started on that initial starter.  We just have to remember, it does not have to immediately stretch to Yulee or Green Cove Springs.  Even a five mile line can do wonders, as long as it directly connects quality destinations and walkable stops.  Houston's 7.5 mile light rail line is a great example.  Paid for with local dollars (without raising taxes), that starter line is already pulling in 40,000 riders a day.  Its been so successful, the city gave the middle finger to the FTA, when that entity pushed them to expand with dedicated busways instead.
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