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What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up? Print E-mail
Thursday, 03 July 2008

Some say, "Jacksonville is a diamond that wants to remain coal". What would it be like if Jacksonville were a city that didn’t hate itself... led by people who acknowledged its achievements?

Here are a few things that possibly would have happened in New York, Rome, London Paris, Seattle, or San Francisco if the leaders that made them into Great Cities had been given our city and history. 

 

The George Washington Hotel on Adams Street, would be the premier boutique hotel in downtown, instead of the surface parking lot it is today.


The Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene.

A statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.

There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.

Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.

Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.

Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.

When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.

Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.

People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.

There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.

People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.

Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.

Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.

There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.

Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.

The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.

 



Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.


Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.

Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.

Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.

Or Lex Hester.

There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.

There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.

The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.

There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?

There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.

It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.

The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.

The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.

The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.

We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.

We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.

The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.

Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.

Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.



There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.

Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.

Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.

But we don't have those things.

They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.

Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.

If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...

But we don't have a "Jacksonville".

Editorial by Stephen Dare

This article was originally published by Metro Jacksonville on December 21, 2006, however, the same sentiment still persist.

 
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>> 85 Comments
billy
July 3, 2008, 6:31 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

We would be more like Boston than Birmingham.
We would have culture out the wazoo and still be a great working seaport.
We would have a massive convention center on the river,
a clean river.
You don't need an aquarium when you  protect your river and ocean.
You could send your kid to the neighborhood school,
and know that the most ambitious students will go to the Ivy League if they want,
or to a Florida university for free, but any graduate will be able to earn a living wage and raise a family, and stay.
We would produce and attract the same caliber music and performers as Nashville, Atlanta, Athens or Seattle.
 Heartbreak Hotel , Lift Every Voice and Sing, and Gimme Three Steps
were written in Jacksonville, or by people from here.
The train terminal would be a beautiful multimodal station.
You could kayak up Hogan's Creek.
Your children could walk to Sunday school downtown from Springfield without fear,
you could impress  your friends visiting from Barcelona or Brooklyn,and  you could
go hunting or throw a cast net if you wanted.
It would not matter if you were materially rich or poor, there is no other place you would want to live.

 
JoeMerchant
July 3, 2008, 7:21 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I think it could possibly do what's in the following video...

http://www.contentdg.com/blog/?p=138
tufsu1
July 3, 2008, 7:58 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
David
July 3, 2008, 9:06 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Meh, it's getting better in recent years with the urban renewal momentum that's building, even if it does sputters at times. The inferiority  complex is felt mostly by the natives who are incredibly defensive over our city. Especially those who have traveled a good bit to other places and have seen how simple things can make a city great. I never felt the insecurity complex more than the week leading up to the 2005 superbowl. I’m sitting on the sidewalk outside of London Bridge and Philly & Patriots fan are constantly stopping by and asking “where’s some cool clubs? Where can I get food, how do I get around without a car?" This was before Bay St had anything, before even Burrito gallery, Café 331 and the new clubs at the landing were open and the northbank riverwalk hadn't been finished yet. So when you look at it that way, that’s not bad for  3 years time. As for getting around without a car, yea that's a ways off for now. We still need more late dining options downtown though, and something to pull more people in towards the river.




second_pancake
July 3, 2008, 9:13 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad).  For the majority of residents of suburban Jacksonville, you could transport them in their sleep to any other suburban destination in any other state and when they woke up they'd have no idea they ever left Jacksonville.  Is that how you want to live, in a cookie-cutter world completely devoid of passion and culture?

What the author was speaking about (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sense of pride in our roots and pride in our city, the original city, downtown, of which, the powers-that-be who determine what course of action is going to be taken regarding the best interests of our city, have none.

In my opinion, it truely is unfortunate that so many of our communities which are so far disconnected from the urban core, are considered to be, Jacksonville.  It's an injustice to what could be done for and in those smaller communities as well as what could be done for downtown.  Orange Park is over 30 minutes away from downtown Jacksonville by highway, the intercoastal communites and the beaches are even further.  People who live in those areas have a tendancy to stay in those areas because they have no reason to venture into downtown for anything other than a couple of games or shows and then they're out and back home.

So, again, depending on where you live in 'Jacksonville' and how much you choose to see/learn, it's either going to be "nice" or it will resemble a teenage girl with self-esteem issues, looking at fashion mags and trying to emulate Gisele Bundchen.
Eazy E
July 3, 2008, 10:16 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

The Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene


well, maybe Jacksonville having incompetent leadership isn't such a bad thing after all...
thelakelander
July 3, 2008, 10:31 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

A Southern Music Hall of Fame would also have to include Ray Charles, James Weldon Johnson and Blind Blake, the King Of Ragtime Guitar.
tufsu1
July 3, 2008, 10:33 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad). 

Some people live in the suburbs...others in established neighborhoods like Riverside and Springfield....I, for one, live downtown....and, yes, I agree there is much potential that has often been squandered....but its still a pretty nice place to live!

If you don't like it, you can always move!
stephendare
July 3, 2008, 10:48 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

tufsu!  read the whole article instead of just the blurb.
thebrokenforum
July 3, 2008, 10:49 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quote
If you don't like it, you can always move!

You shouldn't get offended. I don't think that's the point of the article. A lot of people here do have an inferiority complex - just bring up the topic of the Jags moving or Tony Kornhieser to see examples. The major point of this article is, I think, the diamond in the coal analogy, which is so very true. Jax has some great things - if it didn't none of us would be here. But it could have some really cool stuff if it tried - if we had leaders who were progressive thinking and trying to get more investors, and if the media didn't try so hard to freak everyone out every evening.

Excellent article. Stories like these are why I continue coming here. This one, the Dixieland Park and the 30's Days stories are all excellent stuff and deserves to be in the front page spotlight. I wish the rest of the city could read this stuff because, agree or disagree, it gets people talking and that's almost always a good thing.    

David
July 3, 2008, 11:30 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

i'm sure all of us at one point in time pulled the "you can move" line on people. It's a natural reaction when you listen to the type of people that bitch about how it's so much better where they're from (not saying anyone's doing that here)

but seriously, with all the transplants who brag about how much better their city is up north or outwest, it can be a drain on you as a local. One of the best lines I heard from a defensive local yokal in response to typical jacksonville smack talk was "you know, 95 is open all year round. Here's what you do, take the 95 north exit and just...drive...for ohhhhh about 15 hours and there you go! You'll be back in outragerous realestate land in no time!"

Thankfully most transplants are happy to be here, and bring some of their culture along with them.

stephendare
July 3, 2008, 11:36 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Again, thats the point of the article.  I think TUFSU just didnt read the actual story.

Add to the list a Pullman Fellows Museum to honor A Phillip Randolph.
We had an absolutely fascinating discussion the other night tying in the African American Railmen, and the Negro Baseball League and A Phillip Randolph.  I had no idea that he was such a pivotal character.
thelakelander
July 3, 2008, 11:49 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Advocates in Chicago saw the need to open a museum showcasing the works of the Civil Rights leader that grew up in Jacksonville.

Quote
The A. Philip Randolph Pullman Porter Museum was founded in 1995 by Lyn Hughes, its current director. The facility is located in the Historic Pullman District in Chicago. The facility is named after men who made history - Asa Philip Randolph and Pullman Porters who made up the membership of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters (BSCP) union. Randolph was the chief organizer and founder of the BSCP, the first African-American labor union in the country to win a collective bargaining agreement. With the help of Randolph, the Pullman Porters fought a valiant battle for employment equality with the corporate giant, the Pullman Rail Car Company.

These pioneering efforts created the first bona fied union for the African American worker. This victorious struggle in America’s early labor movement was also the doorway through which many civil rights gains were made.

The A. Philip Randolph Museum is locally recognized as a historic site and is a unique addition to the tourism sites of the Pullman community of Chicago, Illinois. The Museum is also nationally recognized as a valuable and unique African-American museum. The A. Philip Randolph museum pays tribute to one of the most influential African-American leaders in history. A. Philip Randolph redefined American labor, American democracy, and American society. During a time when it was unsafe and unpopular, Randolph demanded that African-American people be fully and equally included in American society. A. Philip Randolph was an intelligent and fair leader who devoted decades of his life to his vision of a more moral and civilized American society. A Philip Randolph was a great man, a great humanitarian, and a great American.

http://aphiliprandolphmuseum.com/


About the life of Philip Randolph
Quote
A. Philip Randolph was born April 15,1889 in Crescent City, Florida. He was one of two sons. His parent's names were Reverend James Williams and Elizabeth Robinson Randolph, who were both dependents of slaves.
 
He and his family moved to Jacksonville in 1891. This was the place where he and his brother attended school. They both excelled by being the top in their classes at the Cookman Institute. After school, he was reduced to menial work. In the spring of 1911, he traveled to New York with a friend, secretly hoping to become an actor. He took classes at City College, and bowing to his parents objections to an acting career, switched from drama to politics and economics, soon joining the socialist party. During this time Randolph met his future wife, Lucille Green, a 31 year old widow from Christianburg, Virginia.

Randolph soon met another friend from North Carolina. His name was Chandler Owen. He was studying sociology and political science at Columbia University. They both shared the same ideas and would soon become soap box orators and establish THE MESSENGER, a radical Harlem magazine, in 1917.

He organized The Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters which was considered the first serious effort of unionizing the Pullman company. The Pullman company was the most powerful business organization in the country, and it viciously resisted efforts to unionize.

full story: http://www.phila.k12.pa.us/schools/randolph/A_P_Randolph.html
xian1118
July 3, 2008, 12:14 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quality article SD. For all the talk of liking and disliking Jacksonville, more people need to step up and show the pride they have for the city.  As a life-long resident and self-proclaimed "ambassador" for the city, it's important that every single one of us take responsibility to transform the city into the exceptional place we all know it has the potential to be...instead of bitching about all the things that hold us back. It will be a fine day when the participants of this website and other young inspired voices take the next step to hold City Council seats and realize these dreams.
BridgeTroll
July 3, 2008, 12:21 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quote
I wish the rest of the city could read this stuff because, agree or disagree, it gets people talking and that's almost always a good thing.   

Absolutely!
stephendare
July 3, 2008, 12:59 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quality article SD. For all the talk of liking and disliking Jacksonville, more people need to step up and show the pride they have for the city.  As a life-long resident and self-proclaimed "ambassador" for the city, it's important that every single one of us take responsibility to transform the city into the exceptional place we all know it has the potential to be...instead of bitching about all the things that hold us back. It will be a fine day when the participants of this website and other young inspired voices take the next step to hold City Council seats and realize these dreams.

Thanks xian!  Its from the heart.

Lake or Ock. what was the connection with the Negroe Baseball League?
thelakelander
July 3, 2008, 1:32 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?




Jacksonville's Negro League baseball team was known as the Jacksonville Redcaps before relocating to Cleveland in 1939.  A large segment of Jacksonville's early African-American population worked with the railroads.  Many black men worked as "RedCaps" or "Porters" (men who helped passengers with their baggage and supplies).  Randolph organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters

Quote
Randolph had some experience in labor organization, having organized a union of elevator operators in New York City in 1917. He was a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc. In 1925, Randolph organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. This was the first serious effort to form a labor institution for the employees of the Pullman Company, which was a major employer of African-Americans. With amendments to the Railway Labor Act in 1934, porters were granted rights under federal law, and membership in the Brotherhood jumped to more than 7,000. After years of bitter struggle, the Pullman Company finally began to negotiate with the Brotherhood in 1935, and agreed to a contract with them in 1937, winning $2,000,000 in pay increases for employees, a shorter workweek, and overtime pay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Philip_Randolph

There's also a movie called 10,000 Black Men Named George about the Brotherhood, that comes on TV from time to time.

More about Randolph:

Quote
Philip Randolph brought the gospel of trade unionism to millions of African American households. Randolph led a 10-year drive to organize the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters (BSCP) and served as the organization's first president. Randolph directed the March on Washington movement to end employment discrimination in the defense industry and a national civil disobedience campaign to ban segregation in the armed forces. The nonviolent protest and mass action effort inspired the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s.

Asa Philip Randolph was born April 15, 1889, in Crescent City, Fla., the second son of the Rev. James William Randolph, a tailor and ordained minister in the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church, and Elizabeth Robinson Randolph, a skilled seamstress. In 1891, the family moved to Jacksonville, which had a thriving, well-established African American community. From his father, Randolph learned that color was less important than a person's character and conduct. From his mother, he learned the importance of education and of defending oneself physically, if necessary. Randolph remembered vividly the night his mother sat in the front room of their house with a loaded shotgun across her lap, while his father tucked a pistol under his coat and went off to prevent a mob from lynching a man in the local county jail.

Asa and his brother, James, were superior students. The Randolph brothers attended the Cookman Institute in East Jacksonville, for years the only academic high school for African Americans in Florida. Asa excelled in literature, drama and public speaking; starred on the school's baseball team; sang solos with its choir; and was valedictorian of the 1907 graduating class.

After graduation, Randolph worked odd jobs and devoted his time to singing, acting and reading. W.E.B. Du Bois' The Souls of Black Folk convinced him that the fight for social equality was more important than almost anything else. He moved to New York City in 1911 to become an actor but gave up after failing to win his parents' approval.
Columbia University student Chandler Owen shared Randolph's intellectual interests and became his close collaborators.

In 1914, Randolph courted and married Mrs. Lucille E. Green, a widow, Howard University graduate and entrepreneur who shared his socialist politics and earned enough money to support them both. The couple had no children.

Randolph joined the Socialist Party and began to harangue the crowds at Harlem's soapbox corner (135th Street and Lenox Avenue) about socialism and the importance of militant class-consciousness. In January 1917, William White, president of the Headwaiters and Sidewaiters Society of Greater New York, asked them to edit a monthly magazine for the society, Hotel Messenger. Randolph and Owen dropped "Hotel" from the masthead and in November 1917 published the first issue of the Messenger, which soon became known as "one of the most brilliantly edited magazines in the history of American Negro journalism."

Their magazine provided an outlet for those who, like Randolph and Owen, were opposed to both the cautious elitism of the NAACP and the utopian populism of Marcus Garvey's United Negro Improvement Association. By now established figures in the Socialist Party in New York, Randolph and Owen embarked on a nationwide anti-war speaking tour in 1918 that brought them to the attention of the U.S. Department of Justice and almost got them arrested.

In June 1925, a group of Pullman porters, the all-black service staff of the Pullman sleeping cars, approached Randolph and asked him to lead their new organization, the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. Randolph agreed. Besides his abiding interest in and knowledge of unions, Randolph's primary qualification for the job was his reputation for incorruptibility and the fact that he was not a Pullman Company employee—meaning the company could not fire him or buy him off. For the next 10 years, Randolph led an arduous campaign to organize the Pullman porters, which resulted in the certification of the BSCP as the exclusive collective bargaining agent of the Pullman porters in 1935. Randolph called it the "first victory of Negro workers over a great industrial corporation."

Randolph became the most widely known spokesperson for black working-class interests in the country. In December 1940, with President Franklin Roosevelt refusing to issue an executive order banning discrimination against black workers in the defense industry, Randolph called for "10,000 loyal Negro American citizens" to march on Washington, D.C. Support grew so quickly that soon he was calling for 100,000 marchers to converge on the capital. Pressed to take action, President Roosevelt issued an executive order on June 25, 1941, six days before the march was to occur, declaring "there shall be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense industries or government because of race, creed, color, or national origin." Roosevelt also set up the Fair Employment Practices Commission to oversee the order.

Six years later, after the passage of the Selective Service Act of 1947, Randolph demanded that the government integrate the armed forces. He founded the League for Nonviolent Civil Disobedience Against Military Segregation and urged young men, both black and white, to "refuse to cooperate with a Jim Crow conscription service." Threatened with widespread civil disobedience and needing the black vote in his 1948 re-election campaign, President Harry Truman on July 26, 1948, ordered an end to military discrimination "as quickly as possible."

The March on Washington movement and Randolph's call for civil disobedience to end segregation in the armed forces helped convince the next generation of civil rights activists that nonviolent protests and mass demonstrations were the best way to mobilize public pressure. Randolph was, in this sense, the true "father of the civil rights movement" in the United States. The movement recognized his role by naming him the chair of the 1963 March on Washington, at which Martin Luther King Jr. gave his famous "I Have a Dream" speech, and by heeding his advice to cooperate in keeping the march nonviolent.
Randolph was elected a vice president of the newly merged AFL-CIO in 1955. He used his position to push for desegregation and respect for civil rights inside the labor movement as well as outside. He was one of the founders of the Negro American Labor Council and served as its president from 1960 to 1966. In 1964 he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Lyndon Johnson.

Retiring as president of the BSCP in 1968, Randolph was named the president of the recently formed A. Philip Randolph Institute, established to promote trade unionism in the black community. He continued to serve on the AFL-CIO Executive Council until 1974. He died in New York City on May 16, 1979.

www.aflcio.org/aboutus/history/history/randolph.cfm
thelakelander
July 3, 2008, 1:38 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Btw, the Cookman Institute (where many of Jacksonville's early black students attended school) would later merge with another school to become Bethune Cookman College (now Bethune Cookman University) in Daytona Beach.



So the recent FSU Medical School we lost out on when they picked Daytona instead, is not the first school to do so.
tufsu1
July 3, 2008, 2:01 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

tufsu!  read the whole article instead of just the blurb.


I did Stephen...and its very interesting....but blanket statements at the beginning turn some people off....and then they stop reading!
stephendare
July 3, 2008, 2:02 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

tufsu!  read the whole article instead of just the blurb.


I did Stephen...and its very interesting....but blanket statements at the beginning turn some people off....and then they stop reading!

I find this very true, and thanks for the compliment.

I don't retreat from the statement though.  As a seventh generation native, It seems to me that the city must hate itself NOT to celebrate its past and its achievements past and present.

Wayne Wood's books and their popularity, I think are a great step in the right direction.
second_pancake
July 3, 2008, 3:12 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad). 

Some people live in the suburbs...others in established neighborhoods like Riverside and Springfield....I, for one, live downtown....and, yes, I agree there is much potential that has often been squandered....but its still a pretty nice place to live!

If you don't like it, you can always move!

I am moving...to TX.  Hopefully, when I come back to visit friends, I'll see Jacksonville making changes for the better instead of watching it continue to disenegrate around me.
RiversideGator
July 3, 2008, 4:20 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Are passages which include filthy language really necessary?

I know you hate Craig van Horne but this is really overboard:

Quote
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.
stephendare
July 3, 2008, 4:34 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Are passages which include filthy language really necessary?

I know you hate Craig van Horne but this is really overboard:

Quote
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.

River.  Stop being such a prissy old woman.

Im an adult, This isnt a childrens novel and I actually don't appreciate your remonstrances.

You make it into a much bigger deal than it is when you do this.

I can see taking offense at 'bad' words when they are directed AT someone, but this essay was actually written two years ago and not really directed at anyone.

Ray Mason should be a household name. I think that we spend way too much time on vulgar real estate developers, not limited to the present example and pay no attention to the really important lasting contributions of the sons and daughters of this city.

Mason was the architect of modern business relations between the Arabs and the West.  His contribution literally cannot be overestimated, yet NO ONE knows a damn thing about him.
heights unknown
July 3, 2008, 4:46 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I don't think Jacksonville is a city that hates itself, but I do think it is a city that is being held back by short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power, and Jax just has not realized it's full unlimited potential.

Jax, up until about 1960 was the City that could rather than the City that couldn't after 1960 and beyond.  Florida cities emulated Jax up until about that point; now it is the opposite, Jax doesn't have an identity or know its identity so it looks to other cities within Florida and around the nation to emulate.  We need to find out our own identity and realize our own self worth and who we are.

Until that happens, Jax will flounder, be uncertain and unsure of itself, thus holding its full potential back or even snuffing it out.

My opinion.

Heights Unknown
thebrokenforum
July 3, 2008, 4:53 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quote
I do think it is a city that is being held back by short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power

Exactly!

Just curious...would starting a petition to get a maritime museum, an aquarium etc. etc. do any good if enough people were interested?
stephendare
July 3, 2008, 5:13 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

One of the Mayors Administrators just called with a very touching acknowledgement of todays article.

They noticed and forwarded the essay to others in the administration and thanked us for leaving an inspirational guide of things to think about on the holiday weekend.

This town has good people in it, and not all of them are dead yet.
rjp2008
July 3, 2008, 5:18 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

One thing I really notice about Jacksonville is that there is a strong core of people who really care about it's development and community. You don't see that in big metro areas, and that's really something.
There is a stronger identity of "we" here than in other areas and that's a huge plus.
RiversideGator
July 3, 2008, 6:51 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I am neither prissy, old nor a woman.  However, do you think that foul language (1) enhances your message and its general appeal or (2) takes away from it and causes many people to stop reading it and/or discount many of the valid points contained in it?  Just something to consider if you want to be taken seriously and make a difference.
pwhitford
July 3, 2008, 7:53 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Stephen - congratulations on a beautiful piece of work.  The scope of the article is epic and the information you provide could fill volumes, if followed up on – and it should be!  Great thought provoking article.  Now let’s see what kind of action it produces.

As a transplanted northerner (and from that modern day Gomorrah, New York City, to boot!) as well as one of those dreaded Orange Park-to-Downtown commuters, I think this town has incredible potential, so much so that I don't think most people can even begin to grasp the possibilities (most participants in this site excepted, of course).  And I am not even a little interested in moving back, but I can understand a native's  reaction to what he/she hears so often.

You want identity – look to your river; you want character, look to the incredible history of this place (the music, the artists, the personalities, the commerce (maritime and overland).  The frustration really comes from seeing how close this town is to being great, a true regional leader, and how often it is ruthlessly used by shameless and callow men for their own immediate gain.

I recommend this site to just about everyone I speak to, so keep up the good work.  And I believe the word is spreading and people are "waking up".  Witness: the effect you are having on the JTA and the very real possibility of commuter and light rail transit here in Jacksonville.  This wouldn’t even be on the table for discussion if the powers that be had been left to their own devices.  This was the result, at least in part, of the work you all do at this site.  Thanks, for this article and everything else.
JaguarReign
July 3, 2008, 8:03 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I think there were many good points in the article and I agree with a lot of it. Optimistically speaking, I think things are starting to look up. I remember 7 years ago when I last living in the area before I returned a few months ago, there was about half of the stuff to do than there is now. Plus, I think the jaguars have really done wonders for this city. Ever since the jags got here Jacksonville has grown as a city exponentially and given us a national identitiy. I think with them in tow, Jacksonville is turning around for the better. 
Ocklawaha
July 4, 2008, 1:13 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Certainly a "Smart City" would have gone with St. Elmo Acosta's plan to convert the FEC RY line from Southbank - (via Beach Blvd alignment) - Jax Beach - Mayport, into an electric interurban that would be with us today. Many other "Median Strip" car lines of Jacksonville Traction, not unlike those in New Orleans would have stayed in place as well...if we only had a brain.

On Mr. Phillip Randolph of Pullman fame, here are a couple of fill in bits that will let the rest of you in on my little secret:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William D'Alton Mann (1839-1920)

career as civil engineer cut short by Civil War

organized the Fifth Michigan Cavalry and later the Seventh

Commanded latter at Gettysberg

during war invented and poatented various improvements to soldiers' equipment and made a fdortune on their sale to federal government

after war settled in Mobile, Al

acquired and edited Mobile Register (newspaper) and took interest in politics

9 Jan 1872 received patent on sleeping car divided by transverse partitions into compartments
USPat 122,622: doors in side like in europe/ small toilet each compart, seats convertible to beds running crosswise to direction of travel

spent next 10 yrs intro to Continent Europe

8 Jan 1878 invented corridor car & car vestibule used on train built in England for use in Russia
USPat 198,991 / car had corridor length of car, communal restrooms, one sex each end
vestibules were closed -- forerunner of present-day (1957) compartment cars

On ret to US organized MBCC to build & operate cars

The Mann Boudoir Car Company was chartered in the state of New York 23 March 1883. It operated at a loss for its first 5 years.

cars used on Springfield line betw Boston & NY 1883

became popular w/ public but not RR because of limited capacity

The December 1888 issue of the Official Railway Guide startled the railroad world (and most of all George M. Pullman) with this announcement: "Union Palace Car Co.... will commence operating SLEEPING AND PARLOR CARS on about 15,000 miles of railroad in January 1889." Union had been incorporated 24 September 1888 in New Jersey by Job H. Jackson of Jackson & Sharp to secure control of the Mann Boudoir Car Company and the Woodruff Sleeping & Parlor Coach Company. The two companies operated a total of 34 cars on about 5,000 miles of railroads in the East, South, and Midwest. Pullman lost no time. Two months later Union Palace was purchased by Pullmans Palace Car Company for $2.5 million. Some parts of Union seem to have survived, because it was not finally dissolved until 1899.

The whole PULLMAN and carpet bagger era hits close to home, Jacksonville was HUGE in both worlds.
While a relation of "Ocklawaha" the majority of my family was on the other side in the War of Yankee Aggression, therefore, had I been alive... Perhaps Col Mann wouldn't have! Viva Quantrail!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George"
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A Pullman sleeping car porter.The Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George" (SPCSCPG) was an association composed largely of railway sleeping car porters in the United States to promote the elimination of the degrading and racist practice of referring to all porters by the name "George" regardless of their actual name. The name refers to George Pullman, of the Pullman Company, which at one time manufactured and operated a large proportion of all the sleeping cars in North America. Porters were overwhelmingly African American, and the practice presumably derived from the old custom of naming slaves after their masters, in this case porters being regarded as servants of George Pullman. The society was initiated by white railway employees actually named George, who were either annoyed by the practice, or thought that founding the society would be an amusing joke.

At its peak, the society had 31,000 members, including King George V of the United Kingdom, American baseball player George Herman "Babe" Ruth, and French politician Georges Clemenceau.[1]

Phillip Randolph formed the first African American Labor Union and became active in the Civil Rights struggle.
He organized the Brotherhood of Pullman Porters in 1925, but they were refused collective bargaining until the Socialist Party put pressure on the Pullman. Finally about 1937 they won a contract. Today the sons of Pullman Porters and onboard train crews are often represented by the Brotherhood of Railway and Airline Clerks, or the UTU.


Ocklawaha
Coolyfett
July 4, 2008, 10:42 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Thats interesting. I think you may want to talk to more people outside of the immediate circle. Hate is a bit strong, I wouldn't say HATE is word to use in that sentence. Maybe "lack of pride" or 'lack of interest" from many of the citizens. 

Sentence should read...Why does Jacksonville ignore itself?
Coolyfett
July 4, 2008, 10:49 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad).  For the majority of residents of suburban Jacksonville, you could transport them in their sleep to any other suburban destination in any other state and when they woke up they'd have no idea they ever left Jacksonville.  Is that how you want to live, in a cookie-cutter world completely devoid of passion and culture?

What the author was speaking about (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sense of pride in our roots and pride in our city, the original city, downtown, of which, the powers-that-be who determine what course of action is going to be taken regarding the best interests of our city, have none.

In my opinion, it truely is unfortunate that so many of our communities which are so far disconnected from the urban core, are considered to be, Jacksonville.  It's an injustice to what could be done for and in those smaller communities as well as what could be done for downtown.  Orange Park is over 30 minutes away from downtown Jacksonville by highway, the intercoastal communites and the beaches are even further.  People who live in those areas have a tendancy to stay in those areas because they have no reason to venture into downtown for anything other than a couple of games or shows and then they're out and back home.

So, again, depending on where you live in 'Jacksonville' and how much you choose to see/learn, it's either going to be "nice" or it will resemble a teenage girl with self-esteem issues, looking at fashion mags and trying to emulate Gisele Bundchen.

Cheesy I think this is what I was trying to say.
Coolyfett
July 4, 2008, 11:06 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

I do think it is a city that is being held back by , and Jax just has not realized it's full unlimited potential.

Rest your fingers mate. The word "TURTLES" works just fine.

Turtles - short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power.
stephendare
July 4, 2008, 11:56 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Its a self loathing city.

I think because we are so uninformed about our own heritage that most people assume that if you dig very deep at all, it must be a calumny of racist rednecks etc.

To be sure, we had our share of those, like any other city, but our actual heritage and history is awesome.

The difference between us and other cities is that they celebrate themselves.

We hide it.

Even in this thread weve had a comment about maybe it would be better if out Southern Fried Rock superstars werent spotlighted.

Self hatred pure and simple.

We have been in thrall too long to the consultants who think we should be more like philly or columbus.

We certainly can learn some infrastructure and techniques from those cities. 

But we take the 'being more like' thing too far.   
Ocklawaha
July 4, 2008, 3:02 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Daughter Trilby just had a brain storm worth mention here...

"Dad, why don't you push the MJ guys to draw the Riverwalk like those beautiful sidewalks in South America (something posted on another thread recently if I recall). Then get the city to put our own walk of fame into the walk. Big Hollywood Stars! Names like Oliver Hardy, Allonso Mitchell, Tom Mix, Ray Charles, Phillip Randolph. I mean, we were the original Hollywood right? So why should they have a lock on it. Then over in by the railing, add a history marker, or a lifesize bronze..."

Damn Girl! Hum? What do y'all think of that one? Imagine getting ones photo taken with a lifesize Oliver Hardy as he leans on the rail looking out over the river? His own star illuminated behind him? DAMN!


Ocklawaha
thelakelander
July 4, 2008, 3:08 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Humm.  A Jacksonville Walk of Fame?  The idea definately has a lot a merit.  What would be the best location for something like this?

A. Friendship Fountain area

B. Proposed Shipyards Pier

C. Northbank Riverwalk - between Landing and TU Center or CSX

D. Northbank Riverwalk - near the Hyatt

E. Southbank Riverwalk

F. Other
ProjectMaximus
July 4, 2008, 5:08 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Daughter Trilby just had a brain storm worth mention here...

"Dad, why don't you push the MJ guys to draw the Riverwalk like those beautiful sidewalks in South America (something posted on another thread recently if I recall). Then get the city to put our own walk of fame into the walk. Big Hollywood Stars! Names like Oliver Hardy, Allonso Mitchell, Tom Mix, Ray Charles, Phillip Randolph. I mean, we were the original Hollywood right? So why should they have a lock on it. Then over in by the railing, add a history marker, or a lifesize bronze..."

Damn Girl! Hum? What do y'all think of that one? Imagine getting ones photo taken with a lifesize Oliver Hardy as he leans on the rail looking out over the river? His own star illuminated behind him? DAMN!


Ocklawaha

I think this is a very logical first step in demonstrating civic pride to outsiders. Simple, minor, yet very effective.
Trilby
July 4, 2008, 5:33 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

"Hey everybody! its ocks daughter. ive met some of you, and some of you just know me from my dad and his love to speak. =] {about everything!} My home is florida however. born and halfway raised in orlando. the other half raised in oklahoma. which no offense to you okies but for me its the closest to hell i could get. I love my florida, and i think this is a great way to voice our opinions on what needs to be done...and what DOESNT need to be done. so now you have another big mouth on here. like father like daughter!"

Im happy someone looked at my idea! i had an idea of calling it "the jacksonvilles stars" i have heard stories from my father how jacksonville would have been the first hollywood. and its such a shame...and possibly a good thing that  it didnt happen!  however...so many early films were done here. and so many famous people have come out of this city, that i believe they deserve some recognition. being a myspace junkie. and facebook. i love to take cool pictures downtown and outside and post them for everyone too see. and i could just see it now. all the young people going downtown to take pictures next to their FAVORITE "jacksonville" star. its a way to reach out to people young and old...teach them some history. but make it fun..and interesting. so the word "history" doesnt scare them away. Grin
 

<3
Trilby
stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:10 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

This is a partial listing of the musical celebrities from or associated with Jacksonville.

Are you f*@#ing kidding me that we don't have some sort of public hall or museum or conservatory that celebrates this?

For God's sake.  This is the city that invented an entire genre of Music:  Southern Fried Rock.   We own it.

lynyrd skynyrd




molly hatchet




allman brothers





38 special




Blackfoot




Brian Leisegang, Filter, Nine Inch Nails




Limp Bizkit




Yellowcard





Black Kids




Ray Charles




stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:13 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

links and more people.


Quote
stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:26 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Creature from the Black Lagoon




Oliver Hardy




Bill Pickett the Norman Studio's Cowboy






stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:37 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Daytime's Connie Fletcher from Jax Beach and Aaron Staten from Beauty and The Beast


stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:40 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Michael Emerson

Charles Hunter
July 5, 2008, 10:41 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Pat Boone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Boone

Dennis Yost and the Classics IV: http://www.crystalhorizon.com/Classics_IV/Home_Main.htm

And, although not born here, Rita Coolidge graduated from Andrew Jackson HS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Coolidge#Personal_life

OK, a bit before Southern Rock, but still from Jacksonville.
stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:47 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Zora Neal Hurston



stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:50 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Rita Coolidge

stephendare
July 5, 2008, 10:58 am
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Slim Whitman




Pat Boone

blizz01
July 5, 2008, 6:49 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

SHINEDOWN
EVERGREEN TERRACE
RED JUMPSUIT APPARATUS
95 SOUTH
downtownparks
July 5, 2008, 8:54 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Yellowcard
Limp Bizkit
stephendare
July 7, 2008, 12:36 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Yellowcard
Limp Bizkit

great additions dtp.   But they were already included in the previous pages.
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 12:43 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Is it possible to get back to design concepts here? I'm wondering if illuminated Stars could be done. Should we add to the lonely jogger full size bronzes of some famous ones? What about historic markers telling their story? On the rail or on the Star? Maybe around the Star? Hey, if the Mayor likes this idea, then lets give them a COMPLETE IDEA.

Ocklawaha
downtownparks
July 7, 2008, 12:45 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Yellowcard
Limp Bizkit

great additions dtp.   But they were already included in the previous pages.

Clearly I should be beaten with a whip until bloody.
stephendare
July 7, 2008, 12:46 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

brilliant Ock.

I wonder if we could sponsor a sidewalk art contest to paint stars along the riverwalk.  Highlight the street artists, limit it to chalks and acrylics....

Historic Markers. 

Maybe a meeting with the Art in Public Places Committee in order to propose the statues of the film stars (including The Creature)
Ocklawaha
July 7, 2008, 11:09 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Oh yeah, the creature HAS TO BE THERE! He should be next to a fine restaurant coming over the wall. For those too young to remember, the diver did that while filming in Jacksonville. There was a seafood place and suddenly this "THING" came up alongside all these film crews. Well, needless to say, he got instant panic and fame in the fragile minds of the 1950/60 era. It should be remembered, if you haven't see the flick, he wasn't a "bad monster" just a love struck BIGFOOT with scales.

Ocklawaha
stephendare
July 9, 2008, 3:49 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Quote
The Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene.

A statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.

There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.

Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.

Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.

Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.

When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.

Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.

People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.

There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.

People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.

Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.

Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.

There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.

Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.

The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.

Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.


Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.

Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.

Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.

Or Lex Hester.

There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.

There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.

The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.

There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?

There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.

It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.

The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.

The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.

The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.

We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.

We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.

The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.

Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.

Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.



There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.

Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.

Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.

But we don't have those things.

They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.

Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.

If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...

But we don't have a "Jacksonville".

add to this list, that there would be statues to the two little ladies that preserved the book collection of the 'black' library, and thereby saved a heritage.

That the colorful history of Napoleon Bonaparte Broward, a direct descendant of Napoleon who was both mayor of the city and Governor of Florida.
RiversideGator
July 9, 2008, 6:17 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Broward was not a direct descendant of Napoleon.  He was just named for Napoleon.   Cheesy

Napoleon had just one legitimate child and he died without issue.  Also, I have never heard this about Broward and can turn up nothing to substantiate it.
stephendare
July 9, 2008, 6:23 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Napoleon Bonapartes court fell apart only to be reassembled under Louise Napoleon.

After Louise Napoleon's regime fell apart, the House of Bonaparte was tossed to the wind.

Interestingly, at some point between the empires, one of the branches relocated to Tallahassee Florida, where the family head became the Postmaster.

I will be glad to find the reference for you.  Its listed in the bibliographic notes of a historical novel called "Tom Doyle" which you can find yourself in print version, but Im uncertain at this minute whether the reference is available online.

However, the family affiliation was told to me personally by both his granddaughter, Dorcas, while she was still alive at her Springfield home of 2nd Street, as well as his great grand daughter Jo Drake (Dorcas' daughter).

I will see if I can find a web reference.
stephendare
July 9, 2008, 6:29 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Here is a listing for the Floridian Bonapartes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Achille_Murat
stephendare
July 9, 2008, 7:00 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

in reading the family history of the Murats, it appears very likely that the family connection was most likely on an infamous side of the sheets.  Even for a lesser cousin of Achilles, it seems unlikely that Catherine would have allowed a legitimate product of the Bloodline to have waited tables at St. Simons.
gregbeere
July 9, 2008, 8:59 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Why don't we try leading instead of being followers?
What is best for Jacksonville and its citizens?
What are we going to do?  Not our government, WE. 
Can we push the envelope......a little?
Why does the new Transportation Center look like every other building in town? Who cares if it is compatible with the existing historic architecture in the area around the project?

"Architect Ethan Loubriel, associate vice president of DMJM Harris, said his firm worked closely with state and local historic preservation agencies to ensure the design of the JTC would be compatible with the existing historic architecture in the area around the project."

It is a new building for goodness sake. Old buildings should be cherished and preserved. New buildings, especially those that serve the community should be well designed and yes, maybe push the envelope.  Has anyone seen the Seattle Library by the Office for Metropolitan Architecture a.k.a. Rem Koolhaas?  Check it's attendance against the Jacksonville Downtown public library.

Bradford is the fifth largest city in the UK with less than half of our population........
This video was very inspiring to me, but if I am the only one, maybe I am in the wrong city.
Take a look........
If nothing else, the video is cool.

"http://www.youtube.com/v/nr2ZzLWcb48&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"
></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed

This is a link to Bradford's redevelopment site.
http://www.bradfordnewcity.com/
thelakelander
July 9, 2008, 9:21 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Boston


Louisville


Indianapolis


Charlotte


Toronto




Jacksonville




It is weird how we are so conservative with our architectural design to blend in with the old, yet we as a community, have no problem tearing down the 100 year old buildings we continue to try to copy.  100 years ago, Jacksonville was a very progressive community.  We need to find a way to get our mojo back.

Driven1
July 9, 2008, 9:26 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

lol Lake...that is hilarious.   i LOVE the Toronto buildings though.  Boston tower is beautiful too.
RiversideGator
July 9, 2008, 10:51 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

in reading the family history of the Murats, it appears very likely that the family connection was most likely on an infamous side of the sheets.  Even for a lesser cousin of Achilles, it seems unlikely that Catherine would have allowed a legitimate product of the Bloodline to have waited tables at St. Simons.

Murat was Napoleon's nephew and he also had no children:

Quote
In 1826, Murat met and married on July 12 at Tallahassee, Florida Catherine Daingerfield Willis, without issue. Gray was the great-grandniece of George Washington. Murat and his wife moved to New Orleans for several years, where he worked as a lawyer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Achille_Murat

Additionally, Louis Napoleon (aka Napoleon III) was Napoleon I's nephew and was emperor of France until 1870, probably around the time Broward was born.  His one child was killed in his 20s and was without issue.  The legitimate Napoleonic line died with him.  So, that wasnt the connection either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III_of_France

While Napoleon I did have illegitimate children, there is no evidence any of them are related to the Browards.  I think this is either a false family legend or an incorrect memory on your part.
stephendare
July 9, 2008, 11:00 pm
Re: What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

Well its certainly not an incorrect memory on my part.

Although, like yourself, at the time I thought it was merely a family fancy.

It wasnt until 15 years later that I came across the footnote in Tom Doyle that verified the tallahassee cousin connection exactly as Dorcas had explained.

And I had not actually read the murat entry in wikipedia un