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Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the recently released LISC MetroEdge Springfield Retail study
Consultants believe that Springfield is a market on the move with increasing consumer demand, attractive housing, active leadership, and business opportunities.

Springfield's trade area is bounded by I-95 (west), MLK Parkway (north), the railroad yard and Ionia (east) and State Street (south). 
While the intersection of 8th & Main form the heart of Springfield's commercial community, North Main, State Street and 8th Street, near Shands, have a much higher traffic count. Springfield Assets:
- Location - centrally located directly north of downtown and accessible by foot, bike, with easy access to major highways - Atmosphere - the community is one of the few well-maintained historic districts in the region and Jacksonville's first and oldest subdivision, established in 1869. - Daytime Population - The district is home to several major employers that bring nearly 30,000 individuals to the trade area on a daily basis 
Recent property transactions suggest that the neighborhood has turned the corner in its revitalization efforts. Demographics: - There are twice as many middle and upper middle income households in Springfield than in a comparable square mile in the county. - The average household size in 2000 was 2.28 people per household. Today, it has decreased to 2.19 people per household. While the number of households has remained mostly unchanged since 2000, household size has decreased. Zoning changes have closed boarding and rooming houses, signaling opportunity for serving new demographics coming to Springfield. 
- Springfield has $43.5 million in buying power, more than double the buying power of a typical county square mile. Summary of Residential Trends - Both annual income levels and income diversity are on the rise.
- New middle income residents are choosing to move to Springfield (Ulrich 2006 Survey of Residents) - Continued mix of families and singles coupled with increasing income suggests retail opportunities exist. 
Permit trends help indicate the areas that have seen the highest level of residential investment since 2004. 

Average home values have increased from $40,274 in 2000 to $160,440 in 2006. Retail Opportunities in Springfield


According to consultants Springfield is under served by a number of business categories. These include Building material, Food & Beverage stores, Book & Music Stores, and General Merchandise stores. Now the most important question is: What does the Springfield community do with this information? Will SAMBA and SPAR get proactive in recruiting businesses to the area or is the plan to sit back and wait for retailers who are shocked by the findings of the LISC MetroEdge Study? |
April 16, 2008, 7:46 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
SPAR, SAMBA and other entities in the community have been courting retailers for at least 2 years.
SPAR sent representatives to the Intl Council of Shopping Centers (ICSC) meeting in Ponte Vedra the first week of April, and will be attending the national ICSC in Las Vegas in May and the Florida ICSC in Orlando in August.
Springfield has also been chosen by ICSC/LISC as one of the top 5 emerging neighborhoods in the country (the others are in Philadelphia, Twin Cities, Detroit and Bed-Sty in New York).
Springfield is not sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.
Stop by 3 Layers on 6th & Walnut to hear their story of being swamped by pent up demand.
Entrepreneurs, retailers and creative office call SPAR at 353-7727 for more information!
April 16, 2008, 7:57 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I would not spend resources going after national retailers. They are not pioneers, they are followers. They have the money to buy in AFTER the 'discovery' has been made. They are not risk takers, particularly in urban areas. They let the mom and pops do the heavy lifting, and then pouch from their success.
I would try to get the businesses already in Jax that have found success elsewhere in the metro area, and try to convince them to relocate or branch off into Springfield. Second, I would look to rstate/regional retailers that are in FL, but not Jacksonville. Third, I would look for the start ups with the best business plans.
Going these routes will also give you something unique that every other neighborhood can't duplicate.
April 16, 2008, 8:46 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
SPAR sent representatives to the Intl Council of Shopping Centers (ICSC) meeting in Ponte Vedra the first week of April, and will be attending the national ICSC in Las Vegas in May and the Florida ICSC in Orlando in August.
Springfield is not sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.
Is there a strategy in place to attract complementing businesses in certain locations or around existing businesses to create some sort of retail /dining /arts or entertainment district?
Three Layers has certainly gotten off to a good start, as well as Jim Brown's BBQ. Now imagine if within visual walking distance of Three Layers there was a book store, record store, pizza shop, neighborhood sports bar, etc. all located within the same building or the same block? Imagine, if through SAMBA and SPAR, businesses are led to improve their signage, facades and incorporate embracing the street with pedestrian friendly elements. Imagine the impact of if we are able to work with local landlords of vacant commercial spaces and get just one block of Main, Walnut, 8th or any other street filled with a diverse collection of businesses, what that would do for Springfield's commercial image. Is there a plan in place for something like this?
I would try to get the businesses already in Jax that have found success elsewhere in the metro area, and try to convince them to relocate or branch off into Springfield. Second, I would look to rstate/regional retailers that are in FL, but not Jacksonville. Third, I would look for the start ups with the best business plans.
Going these routes will also give you something unique that every other neighborhood can't duplicate.
This point is worth a discussion in its self, not just for Springfield, but any urban neighborhood. Should we make national chains a priority over getting the existing buildings filled with local start-ups such as Carl's, Shantytown or Three Layers? What can be done to give Springfield's commercial districts a different atmosphere from other typical districts?
Does anyone know of any urban retail districts in revitalizing neighborhoods across the country that were able to pull in national chains before establishing themselves as an unique locations featuring local retailers, start ups, mom & pops and local culture? We could stand to learn a lot from the success and failures of similar neighborhoods in their efforts to strengthen their retail base.
Personally, I believe at least Main Street has always been a viable retail district. The continued success of the national chain fast food restaurants in the area proves this. However, I believe the key is being able to find entities with a business plan that have the ability to draw and appeal to customers who live outside of the historic district's boundaries. The most successful establishments (regardless of whether they are national or local) operating in the area today all have that ability. Those that rely on the neighborhood for total support seem to struggle a little more.
April 16, 2008, 8:48 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
the ghoulish news is that right now none of the national chains are expanding.
none.
there will be no expansions for the next 24 months as a result of the contracting us economy.
we ran a copy of the story on this yesterday.
Springfield will proactively throw down a local bucket if it wants to see merchant vitality.
April 16, 2008, 10:10 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
To be honest, I think that having more local places would help things a lot (BTW, I consider The Loop a local thing, because it's Jacksonville-Based).
Even if the National Retailers were expanding (yes, they are not right now), I don't see them going to springfield. They are not risk takers (sorry, but there is a lot more risk here than St Johns Town Center).
With that said, do you want to turn Main St into a collection of chain restaraunts?
April 16, 2008, 10:46 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-magic16apr16,1,2176393.story
Investors raise $1 billion for projects in major metropolitan markets.
By Roger Vincent, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
April 16, 2008
Magic still seems to have his touch.
At a time when many sources of financing for real estate projects are drying up, a fund co-founded by former Lakers guard Earvin "Magic" Johnson has banked $1 billion for commercial developments in urban neighborhoods.
Canyon-Johnson Urban Fund is expected to announce today that its third round of financing, which eclipses the combined $900 million total of its two predecessor funds, will make possible more than $4 billion in new development and upgrades of property in the country's largest metropolitan markets.
"The potential for continued revitalization in ethnically diverse communities is nearly limitless," Johnson said.
The fund is a partnership between Johnson and Beverly Hills-based Canyon Capital Realty Advisors. Among the projects Canyon-Johnson has completed: the construction of a retail and apartment complex in Hollywood and the replacement of Chicago's old police headquarters with condos and shops.
The need to upgrade urban centers is growing fast, said Bobby Turner, managing partner of the fund. The country's population is rising at a rate of 3 million annually, 90% of whom will be immigrants or people of color. Many of them head to urban centers with large minority populations.
"Demand for affordable housing and community-serving retail is only going to increase," Turner said. The continuing global credit crunch will limit the ability of some developers to get financing and further aggravate the gap between supply and demand, he predicted.
Investors in the Canyon-Johnson fund aren't deterred by the national real estate slump, Turner said. "We were able to impress on our investors that we are not investing for the next two or three years; we are investing for the next decade."
Investors in Canyon-Johnson -- including the California Public Employees' Retirement System, the University of Michigan and Verizon Communications Inc. -- can profit when projects that the fund undertakes are sold. For example, Canyon-Johnson and a partner, New Pacific Realty, paid about $100 million for the AT&T Center, formerly Transamerica Center, in downtown Los Angeles in 2003, upgraded the property and sold it for more than $200 million.
New York's pension fund has invested in all three Canyon-Johnson funds, city Comptroller William C. Thompson Jr. said.
"We have expanded our investments into real estate and we thought they represented an excellent opportunity to invest in a fund targeting urban centers and also generate a good return," Thompson said. "They were pioneers in urban investment."
Johnson, a former NBA star known for his enthusiasm and flash on the court, has been a key partner in the fund's money-raising and community outreach efforts. He also brings to the table his network of corporate partnerships with Loews Cineplex Entertainment Corp. (Magic Johnson Theatres), Starbucks Corp., Burger King Corp., 24 Hour Fitness Worldwide Inc. and Washington Mutual Inc., which has set up home-loan centers in low-income neighborhoods.
Johnson said he listened closely to residents in neighborhoods where the real estate funds he represented were invested. "We don't just go in and build what we want," he said.
Locals have asked for such services as bookstores, coffee bars and home furnishing shops. "These are often not found in our community," Johnson said.
In Milwaukee people asked for a Wal-Mart, and at a shopping center in Houston the neighbors wanted a police substation.
Canyon-Johnson is also committed to making its projects environmentally friendly, Turner said. The fund has helped pay for $2 billion worth of green development, he said, including a $70-million residential and retail tower in downtown Nashville.
It was the first green residential high-rise in the Southeast preapproved by the United States Green Building Council.
"Being green is not only the right thing to do environmentally but the smart thing to do financially" because it saves money on power, water and other costs, Turner said.
Nashville Mayor Karl Dean keeps a basketball autographed by Johnson in his office, said Paul Ney, director of economic and community development, "but he is more delighted that a group of savvy investors elected to invest in our downtown revitalization efforts."
Other cities where Canyon-Johnson has invested include Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, San Diego and Washington. Two or three major projects are under consideration in Los Angeles, Johnson said, though he declined to offer specifics because negotiations were still underway.
"We will always invest money in L.A.," he said. "This is home.
April 16, 2008, 10:47 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Lake, this seems to be probably the best bet going for the area between 10th and 26th on Main.
April 16, 2008, 10:47 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Maybe even to bail out Kuhn's Projects.
April 16, 2008, 11:46 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Anyone remember when Randy Moss or Warren Sapp was supposed to be opening some hip hop juice shop (their words, not mine) or something in the 'Field? Seemed analogous to the Magic plan.
April 16, 2008, 12:34 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
It could also work for Main, south of 10th, as well, considering North Main appears to be in better economic condition.
April 16, 2008, 3:36 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
But for all the reasons we discussed at the meeting yesterday.
April 16, 2008, 3:57 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
There's nothing wrong with those reasons. I'm totally against yuppifying, complete gentrification or white washing the entire neighborhood and its commercial districts. My opinion of the situation is that Main is much larger than the historic district's imaginary boundaries and it should be marketed to its true demographic. There is nothing wrong with embracing a little diversity. To me that's what makes the neighborhood so desirable and culturally unique. In my opinion, businesses that have the ability to pull from the surrounding neighborhoods, employment centers and through traffic should be promoted and encouraged to come in. In addition, existing "non-yuppy" businesses like Chan's (and yes, even a few of the pawn shops) should be embraced and encouraged to be a part of a future vibrant commercial scene.
Anything short of that and you significantly limit the commercial corridor's potential for success, no matter what marketing strategy is put in place.
April 16, 2008, 4:23 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
and therein lies the rub.
April 16, 2008, 5:11 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I say bring on the gentrification in Springfield. The slum approach certainly hasnt worked.
And, no one has to be excluded for the area to get nicer. I just mean that more upscale people living/shopping in the area will help to preserve what is left of the neighborhood and will bring in new quality development.
April 16, 2008, 6:04 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I reversed myself on the holocaust issue without prejudice, gentrification has racist overtones despite its literal meaning.
I think you are right River, the problem lies in creating the sidewalk traffic that signals to the rest of our species that a place of commerce is there.
And the barriers to that street traffic are neighborhood related.
I dont know if you followed the very exhaustive dialogue that Lake and I had in the Springfield Downtown Axis thread, but what is holding springfield back are the political dynamics of the neighborhood itself.
There is no retail on main street, and no successful restaurants.
There is no third place to create community and encourage the neighborhood to come socialize during regular hours.
There is no street traffic.
These are the observations of everyone on the state of Main Street in historic Springfield.
The reality is a bit different.
Boomtown did awesome there. We started with almost no customers and now we have an active 12,000 person email list 7 thousand of whom came from the old location.---and we were open for both lunch and dinner.
TSI did awesome there. They literally started with nothing and now they have one of the most successful nightclub hangouts in the city. Ibid Pearl and Shantytown.
The neighborhood itself has been very stiffnecked to the merchants with the many boycotts and hostility thereby engendered, but no group of merchants has been more subject to the constant attacks and virulent opposition of the residential group than the retail merchants.
There are four Pawn Shops on Main Street in the historic district. There used to be five.
The springfield overlay disallows any new pawn shop from opening, and really thats fine.
Of the four that are there, One of them specializes in high end musical equipment. For every used or pawned item, they also have two direct from manufacturer brand new items and they do a brisk business supplying half of the musicians and djays in town.
One of them specialized in household electronic.
One of them specializes in watches, gold and jewelry.
One of them is pretty much a straight up criminal operation that specializes in the tools of all the unwary contractors in the neighborhood, suspiciously familiar looking lawn equipment, and guns.
Now these pawn shops are the only retail that the neighborhood has. They have been there since the 60s, they OWN their buildings and they arent ever going to go anywhere, until come the revolution, and even then probably not as they will end up supplying guns to both sides of it.
All four of them are on the same block on both sides of the street, and in addition to their specialty items, they also have some of the coolest eclectic old stuff to be found in Jacksonville.
Relabelled as consignment stores, their inventory would be that cool 'Rosie's Attic" that is in every great little shopping district across the country. So springfield already has a household electronics, musical equipment, jewelry store clientele that has been coming to the neighborhood since before my dad took me to ralph's in the 70s to show me an old violin that he had been thinking about buying for some time (My father played violin all his life. The only area of sensitivity I think that he every had)
DVDs Cds, and cameras of every description.
Instead, (Totally because of the one bad apple that has everyone's stolen crap in it) all four of these merchants have been vilified and boycotted and ostracized and leveraged in every way possible in order to make them leave.
Between them, they own 40% of the available space on Main in between 7th and 8th. If I remember correctly, the Pawn Shops arent even allowed to get the facade grant monies that used to be available. Additionally, since they are also all landowners, and got the buildings when they were worth nothing, they have some pretty spectacular properties.
Two of them are block sized buildings with second stories. The upstairs of the corner of 7th and Main is used as a crack tenement and lower income apartment complex. All of them would like to improve their properties.
Two of the pawnshops are operated by man and wife. Gary and Evelyn Moonyoung. Evelyn is cute with her country roots visible whenever she speaks and she runs the Pawn Shop whose inventory is mostly new musical equipment. Gary has the gorgeous two story brick building in the middle of the block with the green sign on it that says "The Pawnbroker"
With some encouragement both of their places could become showpeices. Gary has two spaces next to his own shop downstairs that he has variously rented out to different operations, Art Galleries, longstanding Poker Games, and a tax place at present.
Upstairs there is room for 10 low rent art studios.
The Cash America Pawn not only owns the space with the sign on it, but also the nauseating faux rockfaced space next to it. They use the storefront for storage.
When the facade grants came through, the neighborhood made sure that these landowners were as excluded as possible (The process was already a pain in the ass) So now, the neighborhood is stuck with the fake boulders which have recently been painted taupe for good.
40 % of the available retail space is a huge chunk, and the neighborhood has thoroughly alienated all of these landowners, by the various regimes of sabotage that they have backed over the years.
If instead, positive relations were created. The neighborhood started shopping in and supporting these guys---even the criminal one, they could turn these places WHICH ARENT GOING ANYWHERE ANYWAYS into an asset. Three of them hate the SPAR organization so much that they dont do any improvements at all just to spite the LOLAS.
But starting here, even if nothing blossomed out of it, at least the eyesore factor would diminish, and incidentally its harder to take stolen stuff if you personally know the people that its getting stolen from and they are in your shop all the time.
Starting from the street traffic from these places alone (and there are already a lot of dads with their sons on the weekends looking for bargains----there always have been) the street traffic and commerce would draw other businesses.
As it is, the level of customer service sucks and the workers certainly dont have anything good to say about the neighborhood. Most of them wont recommend any other restaurant than popeyes and dont have any of the positive information about the neighborhood in their stores.
Then look at the restaurants.
Chans is busy as hell all the time. Hola! stays busy. The corners of 9th and Main tell another story.
Three corners are bursting at the seams with customers. One isnt.
Three corners charge white and black people the exact same prices for their drinks. One doesnt.
(2bcontinued)
April 16, 2008, 9:41 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Stephendare,
And the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls--
Thank you.
Springfield is going through a class war, plain and simple.
April 16, 2008, 10:19 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Thank you SheClown.
The point is, that it seems like a sizeable portion of the springfield residents arent really supportive of a service and retail district around them, but that what the neighborhood wants is for the entire san marco square, or the village out at ponte vedra to be picked up whole and set in place on top of whats available on main street.
And thats part of the ethos that has made the residential restoration possible. These are people who look at a place and see it for its grandest potential, not the house and yard as it stands in reality. They have already exercised the majical human power of plucking a vision out of the future and reconstructing it, board by board, and tile by tile until the dilapidated 30 thousand dollar wreck has become the 400 thousand dollar mansion.
But this is not how business districts work however. At least in the absence of a billion dollar sugar daddy with a mission.
So, lake while the neighborhood is ready for development, and the shocking downturn of the national economy creates a micro trend district that could actually cause growth, the politics of the neighborhood will have to change in order to make it possible.
The neighborhood should not be at visible war with 40 percent of the available space of an entire block of main street. It should be building bridges and making their businesses so upscale that they all convert to new merchandise the way gold and silver pawn has.
When the barbeque place opens, the organizations should be hiring the bbq to do the catering parties that they are calling bbs and panera to do, and then forcing the lower end establishment to learn how to be more upscale and diverse themselves by demanding and then paying for a better quality.
If the service is shitty at the restaurant or the food tastes like crap, then stay and talk to the manager and explain what was wrong and why. THEN COME BACK TO THE PLACE, give it a second and a third chance. Dont suffer in silence. While its true that they will drive themselves out of business, they will also leave behind an empty street when they go. Some places cant be helped, of course because the owner is either an asshole or insane, but that happens everywhere you go.
When small businesses run out of ingredients there are a hundred reasons why. Help the businesses by accepting it in good graces, your purchases will restock the shelves.
If the neighborhood wants to become the change that it desires, there should be posters and invitations inside the pawn shops to all spar events. The streets should be lit at night at the demand of SPAR so that there arent any dark frightening places along a strip that hundreds of thousands of people drive every day.
It shouldnt be at war with the first time business operator who installs a bunch of lettering on the windows. Viva Computers windows look cluttered, but the Spar Building itself is one of the least attractive structures on Main Street. Trust me that the building is not suffering more from vinyl than it is from the damned architect.
If the neighborhood wants main street to be a viable commercial corridor, it should get Kevin Gay to mow the lawn at 7th and Main and schedule so many cookouts, barbeques and croquet matches there that people mistake it for a public park.
The places will come when they see the sidewalks full of people who look like potential customers.
In this respect, Ian Ranne and Joey Marchy (and god bless her and the Souk, Chris Farley) know a whole hell of a lot more about how the world works than anyone else out there because they know that there has to be something visible ON THE STREET in order to get the ball rolling.
Be friendly to everyone that doesnt look homeless or dangerous. When San Marco first got started, you could barely get through the shops without SOMEONE introducing themselves and welcoming you to the neighborhood. Being an ambassador for the neighborhood can be as simple as making sure that you take the dog down two blocks of main street and saying hello to everyone on the street.
April 21, 2008, 2:51 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Three corners are bursting at the seams with customers. One isnt.
Three corners charge white and black people the exact same prices for their drinks. One doesnt.
Do white or black people get the cheaper drinks ?
April 21, 2008, 2:53 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Three corners are bursting at the seams with customers. One isnt.
Three corners charge white and black people the exact same prices for their drinks. One doesnt.
Do white or black people get the cheaper drinks ?
Please let me know when it is "white male"s night at 9th & Main.
April 21, 2008, 2:53 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
And the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls--
Thank you.
Springfield is going through a class war, plain and simple.
sheclown, do you know lindzeeluv?
April 21, 2008, 7:45 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
no, I don't think so.
April 22, 2008, 5:04 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I don't care if someone is white, brown, yellow, black, red or purple. I don't care if someone earns $8,000 a year or $800,000 a year. And I really don't even want to know about other folks gender/sexual preferences. If I were blind, I'd be able to consider ALL 3 of these commonly-used classifiers Not My Business.
But... I do care if someone is earning a living illegally or otherwise engaging in illegal behavior in the environment where I am raising my offspring. B/c of my kids, I do care if people are openly flaunting behaviors or values that I don't want them exposed to until they are over 18, be it yelling down the street, littering, cursing, using drugs or hiring prostitutes (some people claim these things are part of "culture").
I don't consider this a race war (about skin color). I don't consider this a class war (about income). I consider it a values war.
I generally appreciate people with different values than mine (that's why I don't live in the 'burbs), provided they don't fit into the categories listed in my second paragraph. But because there seems to be a concentration of folks with these sub-par values in the Downtown neighborhoods -- make no mistake, there are SOME everywhere -- I've sometimes got a problem with it.
April 22, 2008, 5:22 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
In springfield's case, zoo. Especially considering that the pawn shops own the buildings. How would you suggest that a positive outcome happen?
April 22, 2008, 6:34 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Okay Zoo.
Illegal behavior shouldn't be tolerated.
As far as yelling and cursing, good luck making the world behave. Yes, we are talking about acting differently around here than in the gated suburb communities. Values? I know some good loud people. I know some good, spiritual people who cuss. I know some sneaky evil people who behave themselves. It is hard to tell until you get to know a person.
As far as your kids are concerned, start with the lesson that you can't judge a book by its cover and move from there.
But, I thought Stephendare was talking about patronizing ALL neighborhood businesses. The distinction between a "cool" biz and an "uncool" one is certainly a class war.
April 22, 2008, 8:54 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Ok I have to disagree, patronizing Pawn Shops or not, has nothing to do with a class war. I go to the pawn shops on Main, to look for my stuff that has been stolen. Do I buy anything: Nope. I refuse to patronize a business that supports thieves in my neighborhood. If they turned the stores around to more of a “flea market” (as Stephen alluded to) and stopped buying all our stolen stuff I would for sure shop there, not because of a class distinction, but because they would have a product I am interested in, that I won’t feel slimy for buying (or have to hide when I have neighbors over for a party in case it is theirs!).
April 22, 2008, 9:42 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Downtown Dweller, If they are buying stolen goods, the law needs to be called. They are required to keep records. The ones you refuse to patronize, do you know for a fact that they are dealing in stolen goods? Here again, illegal activity, when confronted with one's own eyes (as opposed to rumor-has-it) needs to be dealt with.
April 22, 2008, 9:42 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Exactly. right.
But how do we make that happen? If these were renters it would be one thing. But they arent. They bought the buildings. They are landowners with all the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else in the neighborhood.
Not to mention that they present a problem inasmuch as they own a huge chunk of the property between 7th and 8th.
And if that cant be solved, then there is a lost block for you.....the one with the most buildings on it.
The only one I ever found my stolen stuff at was the one at the corner of 7th and Main.
And trust me, I share the frustration. With stuff going on in four main street spaces at Eden, Boomtown, The Carter and next door, we had a hell of a lot of things stolen.
Not only did we only recover it from that store, but they hated us for getting our stuff back.
We never found stolen property at the other three.
Has anyone else?
And how do you overcome the obstacle? Make enemies with them?
They have demonstrated for 10 years that they could care less what SPAR thinks. And they were doing steady business throughout it all.
April 22, 2008, 10:06 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
So you promote the three legit pawn shops and soon pawn shop number 4 will want to be included...
April 22, 2008, 10:17 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Psalms 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength
April 23, 2008, 10:51 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I cuss and am loud sometimes, too. But I don't do it in front of my kids -- when they pick up some of these things, and I'm sure they will from people in any one of their environments (whether it's our neighborhood, or their schools), I hope they'll at least do it out of rebellion, carelessness, and maybe even anger, rather than because they think it is part of their/my value system.
I do teach my kids to not judge a book by it's cover. When we're out in our neighborhood, we say "hi" to everyone who isn't engaging in activities that fit that paragraph of descriptions. When they ask why the person in front of us stinks, I answer that they just haven't had their bath yet today. When they ask who someone we say hi to is, I tell them their name if I know it, or I tell them it's a neighbor.
Again, I'm happy that my kids will be exposed to SOME values that may not be consistent with my own. But I still stand by my right as a parent to dislike openly displayed behaviors that fit into the categories in my previous post. For the Zoo family, it's not about race or class -- it is about values.
April 23, 2008, 10:55 am
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
As long as Springfield continues to gentrify, the customers for these "shops" will eventually no longer live in the neighborhood. Then, they will give in and sell their buildings at a profit and move their quasi-illicit (if they are dealing in stolen property they should be prosecuted) businesses elsewhere. This is the way forward. And, all neighbors now living in the Springfield who support the rehabilitation of the neighborhood should have an absolute boycott of these places.
April 23, 2008, 12:14 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
As long as Springfield continues to gentrify, the customers for these "shops" will eventually no longer live in the neighborhood. Then, they will give in and sell their buildings at a profit and move their quasi-illicit (if they are dealing in stolen property they should be prosecuted) businesses elsewhere. This is the way forward. And, all neighbors now living in the Springfield who support the rehabilitation of the neighborhood should have an absolute boycott of these places.
That'll show those trojans!
April 23, 2008, 1:14 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Okay, let's have a look at those "family values" --geez...where have I heard THAT before?
BTW, be careful of having the TV on, or watching movies with them in the house. You certainly don't want to have the radio on while you are driving them to school. No Folio either.
Speaking of stinky people -- that old lady that sits in the pew in front of me at church really wears too much flowery-smelling perfume. It makes my eyes water.
Your space ends where you end. Other people's space begins where they begin. Unless they are breaking the law, their space is not your space.
April 23, 2008, 3:44 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Ok, now I really have to say something. "My space" as you put it should not be intruded on by complete strangers that walk up to me and my small children and begin a conversation such as : "MFer....is that a MFing dog? Sh****T what kinda MFing dog is that? I aint never Fing seen a Fing Bi**ch like that MFer there"
And that is a nice conversation; this IS an infringement on my rights and the right of my family to take a walk down the sidewalk that btw, my taxes are paying to upkeep. Should people be able to do their own thing, OF COURSE, but NOT when it infringes on common decent rights of everyone else to enjoy the space. I get this kind of language when I am sitting in my own front yard, much less walking down the sidewalk, the aisle at the grocery store, or even at the playground in the park. "family values" as you put it may not mean much to you, but me....I have a responsibility to my children to ensure they grow up and can at lest speak the English language, and hopefully be an asset to society.
If you or anyone else wants to butcher the English language may I suggest doing it in your own car, home, or yard and keep it away from the rest of us, especially are small children. This is the epitome of selfishness if you ask me, but of course you didn’t. Since it appears everything to you is about class war, well if the application of common sense, curtsey and decency when addressing a five year old is a “class issue” I am really naïve, I didn’t think poor meant rude, selfish, and stupid, and no matter what you say I still don’t.
April 23, 2008, 3:59 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
If you or anyone else wants to butcher the English language may I suggest doing it in your own car, home, or yard and keep it away from the rest of us, especially are small children.
Okay, does anyone else see the irony in this statement?
April 23, 2008, 4:05 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I so totally agree on the shocking public habits of what used to be a civilized society.
People should really know better. Obviously. Between all the casual usage of the f bomb (a dirty little habit that I never had until the law firm, natch) and the people who still think its polite to beat their children half to death in grocery stores (very different from thinking that it would be warranted) I don't know whats into people.
When John and I were confronted with the same things as merchants on Main Street, we simply reminded people as friends that there were women and children present and asked them how they were.
It took a few months of doing this, but after a while our stretch of main street was as civil as any other street in the city.
Its going to take involvement and the creation of mutual respect if Springfield wants the commercial strip to change.
When we were there it was civilized, but that was only after nearly a year of creating community relations, making friends with the neighbors and actively nipping the craziness in the bud as it happened (someone who isnt in danger of spurting water through their nose from explosive laughter should ask John about his exploits with Janet, springfield's most notorious midget crack ho.)
The point is that its time to throw down the bucket into the well of the community.
There wont be a Starbucks or a Wendy's or a Gap Store or any of the corporate chains opening anytime in the near future. Its not in the cards, baby. Those guys are all actively CLOSING stores because of the recession and they will be for the next 2 years at least.
San Marco, one of the uppitiest neighborhoods not to have been founded by a Cabot-Lodge or Athena herself STILL doesnt have a Publix.
And besides, its easy to discuss the horrible habits of unknown f-bomb mongers, but its a real likelihood that none of them are reading this site either. (except Lunican)
None of which answers Lake's implied question. How to make Springfield into a viable retail district.
April 23, 2008, 4:07 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
If you or anyone else wants to butcher the English language may I suggest doing it in your own car, home, or yard and keep it away from the rest of us, especially are small children.
Okay, does anyone else see the irony in this statement?
ouch DD. exhale. The passion of the string is making you misspell, lol. It happens to me all the time. I usually also mix up my verb tenses.
April 23, 2008, 4:18 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
this is the street with all the damned buildings on it, can anyone identify the pawn shops owned by the pawn shops?
April 23, 2008, 4:20 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
True, sorry everyone for getting so worked up. I just feel passionately about my children. I am really frustrated at the language they are exposed to, whether on the street or in their own yard. I have even heard little children their age using this same language in the park! I have been known to drop a few cuss words myself, but it isn’t par tof my everyday language, and I can ask a civil question without using the MF five times.
Sorry again for getting so heated
April 23, 2008, 4:22 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Sorry again for getting so heated
I know, its like an indefinite article or a pronoun or something.
Before long people are going to start thinking its a yankee colony.
April 23, 2008, 4:25 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
DD, I am also sorry if I trip over my soap-box. I can be so booorrriing sometimes (and yes, everything seems to be a class war with me).
The most beautiful thing happens to a man when he has a child. (I'm mean usually here). He becomes a hero and wants the world to be a better place for them. So, that's just down right perfect as it should be. BUT, when the little ones become a bit older, then can we argue over "family values?"
April 23, 2008, 4:32 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
The most beautiful thing happens to a man when he has a child. (I'm mean usually here). He becomes a hero and wants the world to be a better place for them. So, that's just down right perfect as it should be. BUT, when the little ones become a bit older, then can we argue over "family values?"
Absolutely, and you may be surprised in that I most likely will agree with your stance.
April 23, 2008, 5:30 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Until I opened boomtown, I didnt really understand the racial dynamics of the city.
I have been in a little waspy town in Indiana during a collapse of the economy, and our firm represented the bankruptcies of half that area of the state. So Ive seen the 'class war' happen
In Indiana, the 'gentrification' process isnt really a racial thing, its an economic class thing (mainly because that area of the country is so shockingly segregated that black folk and white folk basically have their own towns)
In Springfield it has been a bit of both.
And it seems like it has all the elements in place to make something wonderful happen, but the politics of the neighborhood have cut off all possibility of the communication that it would take to make that happen.
I used to really disagree with Tanya Perez Brennan's article from the TU....let me see if I can find it.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110704/dss_17113827.shtml
The Times-Union
Springfield's Main Street strip, the city's new arts hub, was bustling with life one Saturday night last spring. At Boomtown Theatre & Cafe, the usual suspects congregated: artists, actors, dinner guests.
Just a few doors down at the now defunct Pickett Gallerie, a string of bodies lined the sidewalk, listening to the sounds of spoken-word poetry mingle with hip-hop music in the background.
Some of the spoken-word attendees walked past Boomtown, casting cursory glances at their counterparts. The Boomtown patrons returned similar glances and retreated to their corners. It was a brief acknowledgement, nothing more. Though they were on the same block, merely doors apart, they were in two worlds: one white, one black.
The split between the mostly white patrons of Boomtown and the mostly black patrons of Pickett Gallerie seems unimaginable to many in a city striving to grow artistically. After all, many in the arts world contend that for a city's arts scene to truly flourish, there needs to be a camaraderie, a melding of sorts, where artists of all backgrounds come together.
.....
Stephen Dare, owner of Boomtown, opened his doors to the bi-monthly Soul Release spoken word event when Pickett Gallerie -- owned by Suzanne Pickett, JCAAA's treasurer -- closed last March.
"I agree with them and their reasons," Dare said of JCAAA. "I just wonder if it's setting up the black community for a separate but equal [situation]. . . . I have mixed feelings about a city that creates the need for a black arts group."
Tiffany Duhart, who runs Soul Release, said that bringing the mainly black event to Boomtown helped create a more diverse audience.
"People will already be [at Boomtown] for dinner, and then they'll stay for the show, and then bring people next time," she said.
Still, a separation of the races seems to be the norm at most art events, many local artists say.
Duhart, who is a member of JCAAA, said it is necessary to provide support for black artists by promoting group shows.
"You've got a lot of talented people here, but everyone's spread out, there's no unity," she said. "And from this standpoint there's strength in numbers."
I disagreed with it, because we certainly didnt have any feelings of racism in our group of people that moved to Springfield, but now I see that the dynamics of the city had gently guided us into a position of racism because we just didnt have any african american contacts.
When Boomtown was lucky enough to be able to partner with Soul Release, our marginal little business that was barely making it suddenly blew up and became profitable.
Without Soul Release joining with Boomtown, we probably would have closed after another year.
Now, my experience with the neighborhood was awesome. There was a certain number of people who would come to the saturday night experience which was primarily black and go 'wow. this is racially uncomfortable for me.' Those people, for the most part simply started coming to dinner on Friday night. And the same thing happened with the new customers we picked up from Soul Release. They would come in on wednesday night with John singing 'Time after Time" with a bunch of college girls and families from the neighborhood and go, 'hmm. mental note, Boomtown on Saturdays"
The best part was that so many of our new customers were actually neighbors who hadnt come out to main street in years.
I mean to say that if it werent for the counterproductive politics of the neighborhood, like the lack of communication between the african american community and the SPAR renovating community, and the all out war and/or boycott of half the businesses on main street at any time, it would ALREADY be a thriving district.
April 23, 2008, 5:31 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
That picture is just sad. I think the Pawn shops are the least of the problems.
April 23, 2008, 5:39 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
That picture is just sad. I think the Pawn shops are the least of the problems.
lol and imagine being willing to spend another 100 k to open a restaurant in this economy, in the conditions pictured, but at least you can look forward to being boycotted by half of your neighborhood for one reason or another....
There are so many beautiful people in Springfield, but the politics forced us to bring in people from out of the neighborhood just to reach a stable subsistence level.
Joining with Soul Release was the smartest business move we ever made, though.
April 23, 2008, 6:24 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
In reality, Springfield is a small section of Urban Jacksonville and Main Street is the lifeblood that connects a large population base between the Trout River and Downtown. Economy and road construction aside (those are real issues Main must address), a viable business should be able to open up an establishment on Main and not have to rely only on the few people who live within the neighbohood's boundaries.
The chains are there because they have a product that can pull from the surrounding neighborhoods. Carl's and Jim Brown's, Three Layers and The Pearl all do the same and are very successful at what they do. To me, having a viable business plan that attracts "outsiders" is the main key to success for any operation considering opening up on or near Main Street. Having the power to pull in "outsiders" trumps the few band of fanatics who may decide to boycott your establishment for whatever reason. If a few want to be like that, give them the finger, concentrate on perfecting your business and keep the cash rolling in.
April 23, 2008, 6:28 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
then its not really a 'viable' retail market.
Every new business would have to be able to succeed even it were on the outskirts of town and you had to pass a checkpoint to get there.
Those would be non location specific businesses and wouldnt effect whether or not 'springfield is a viable retail market' As presently constituted, for the reasons listed. It just isnt.
The proof is in the pudding. and in the picture.
It has all the makings of one though.
April 23, 2008, 6:52 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Every new business would have to be able to succeed even it were on the outskirts of town and you had to pass a checkpoint to get there.
It may not for a Ruth Chris or Urban Outfitters, but its just as viable as any other typical Jacksonville retail strip. Ultimately, it depends on what you're selling and if you're in the right location for that intended demographic. Go ask the workers at Popeye's or the Chicken Koop if its a viable market.
I disagree. Popeye's would do half the business it does now if it were located on East 8th, near the railroad tracks. There's also a reason they have a location there and not in Ponte Vedra or the Southside. Its a viable market for what they are selling and the demographic they are targeting. Ponte Vedra isn't, but it is for Ruth Chris.
Carl's, the daycare and the pawn shops do good business. Drop the lease rates (they are a bit high), help the business owners fix up their facades & signage, complete the streetscape, get the section 8 housing out of that old Klutho building and it will be just fine.
It is one. It just may not be the type certain people want it to be.
April 23, 2008, 7:04 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Well lake, dont rely on all this confounded theory.
After all, it should be a shoe in.
Make a few calls and get some shops lined up.
Let me know how it turns out.
April 23, 2008, 9:07 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
What can be done to improve communication between the african american community and the SPAR renovating community (if there even is such a thing) ?
April 23, 2008, 9:11 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
class war
April 23, 2008, 9:12 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
After all, it should be a shoe in.
Make a few calls and get some shops lined up.
Let me know how it turns out.
No need, I'll ask just the guys at Jim Brown's the next time I pick up a rib sandwich or a two piece chicken dinner at Popeyes on if they are being put out of business by Springfield's neighborhood politics.
April 23, 2008, 9:14 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I miss Pic n Pay
April 23, 2008, 9:16 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
gosh Stephen if it does't make good business sense what can you do? That looks bad.
April 23, 2008, 9:18 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
What can be done to improve communication between the african american community and the SPAR renovating community (if there even is such a thing) ?
who is responsible?
thats too hard of a question for me. Might as well blame Thaddeus Stevens and the radical republicans of 1868. Or George Wallace in 1968.
I suppose some outreach on the part of sparmembers to Durkeeville and to the African American Chamber of Commerce would be a good start. A few joint meetings, a barbeque a couple of invitations to the pastor of the big church at 8th and Main, a few more events scheduled at the Kennedy Center.
There is a lot that could happen.
But this thread is about the businesses and retail shops.
The biggest thing that would create change is simply supporting the idea that everyone lives in the neighborhood.
And Street Traffic. When people drive down Main Street, Springfield is telegraphing thousands of people a day that this is a blighted neighborhood that not even the undead would frequent without a pistol.
How do you fix that? Regular people on the sidewalk clearly leading regular lives.
Potential store owners driving through will see all those customers out there, and NOTHING open. Trust me, a little lightbulb will blink into existence over their heads.
Why is this so difficult to grasp for the neighborhood? I mean come on now.
Frequent Carl's. Make friends with the 'good' pawn shops. Put up posters for events and things in their shops.
Order big catering events from the Bar B Q place.
But go out to the businesses and try and support them either with your business, your moral support (you truly would not believe how touching this is to a merchant....sometimes its all that really matters is to feel like you have friends and connection to the place where you have your business) or by referral.
Even if you have no intention of listening to the music or riding the bikes or trying on hip hop fashion, drop by and say hello.
You have no idea how much these small steps would change the environment on main street.
April 23, 2008, 9:18 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
After all, it should be a shoe in.
Make a few calls and get some shops lined up.
Let me know how it turns out.
No need, I'll ask just the guys at Jim Brown's the next time I pick up a rib sandwich or a two piece chicken dinner at Popeyes on if they are being put out of business by Springfield's neighborhood politics.
And this will add another store or restaurant how?
April 23, 2008, 9:29 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Now imagine this same scene with hundreds of people on the street.
April 23, 2008, 9:35 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
There are two major issues facing Main Street in Springfield and neither have much to do with boycotts by Springfield residents.
1. Main Street Streetscape construction - the street is a mess right now and most of the parallel parking has currently been taken out for construction. It also does not help that drivers can't make left turns on most streets through the construction zone.
2. Leasing rates & building conditions - Like the rest of Jacksonville, going rates for properties in Springfield got out of hand during the boom. The high leasing rates limit the amount of mom & pop businesses that can open up shop in the middle of the construction zone.
Those that own the property they are in or have realistic leasing rates tend to do okay. Any efforts to attract additional retail will need to overcome the two major items listed above. What would you suggest as a method to deal with road construction, high leasing rates and deteriorating buildings?
April 23, 2008, 9:40 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
The rents on Main Street have tumbled.
Its not expensive anymore, the landlords just want tenants.
Most of them will charge no rent for a few months to allow repairs.
Panera BBs and all of Hendricks Avenue had road construction going on for years, as did Boomtown for three years of operation on Main Street.
It really is about the street traffic.
Its the reason that the leases were so divorced from reality.
Commercial Leases are based on the number of potential customers a person might get.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION! isnt just an empty marketing phrase.
There is no street traffic on main street.
Fix that, and you fix everything.
You cant fix that by boycotting 40 percent of the shops, refusing to frequent another 10 percent and restricting who is allowed in the remaining (empty) 50 percent of the properties.
The Springfielders are beginning to get restless on this issue though, giving credit where credit is due.
I was surprised to find that the residents are VERY aware that a business that doesnt produce activity and street traffic is undesireable. I was actually proud of the springfielders that all of them would groan and grit their teeth everytime a new tax returns place opens.
Despite the professional cleanups and the shiny plastic back lit signs, the springfielders are savvy enough to know that these are merely neutral tenants who contribute nothing to the neighborhood.
So there's hope.
April 23, 2008, 9:42 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
wait it out if you are strong enough and it makes sense
April 23, 2008, 9:47 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
lol. I miss Western Auto at 1714 North Main Street.
April 23, 2008, 10:02 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
I miss the. caddy dealership der
April 23, 2008, 10:15 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Its not expensive anymore, the landlords just want tenants.
Most of them will charge no rent for a few months to allow repairs.
I don't think SPAR and SAMBA are aware of this. I'll throw it out at the next board meeting and see what people have to say.
Popeye's, KFC, Chan's, etc. still do good business. However, you can't deny its difficult for a mom & pop with limited capital to start up a business that can't be accessed by half the traffic driving between 4th & 12th Streets right now.
Its the reason that the leases were so divorced from reality.
Commercial Leases are based on the number of potential customers a person might get.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION! isnt just an empty marketing phrase.
There is no street traffic on main street.
Fix that, and you fix everything.
There's a decent amount of street traffic, according the Metro Edge Study. However, it is limited because half the traffic can't directly access business locations located across the street because of the continuous string of closed intersections.
The Springfielders are beginning to get restless on this issue though, giving credit where credit is due.
I was surprised to find that the residents are VERY aware that a business that doesnt produce activity and street traffic is undesireable. I was actually proud of the springfielders that all of them would groan and grit their teeth everytime a new tax returns place opens.
Despite the professional cleanups and the shiny plastic back lit signs, the springfielders are savvy enough to know that these are merely neutral tenants who contribute nothing to the neighborhood.
So there's hope.
Who's presently getting boycotted out of Springfield? The community is also pretty diverse. What are the number of residents in your opinion who are boycotting businesses on Main Street?
April 23, 2008, 10:22 pm
Re: Is Springfield a viable retail market?
Walking street traffic. Passersby.
As you can see from the posts, nearly 100 percent of the residents are boycotting the pawn shops.
Samba is a pretty small organization, Lake. I dont think there is a single main street merchant on it is there?
Ian is about as close as you have. And even shantytown is considered 'too edgy' by some in the neighborhood. Not just 'oh that edgy place over on 6th? Yeah Ive seen it, is it pretty good?", but "That Shantytown is a little too edgy for people who havent seen our neighborhood before, first impressions are so important after all" consideration.
And you have hit on the point Lake. In a neighborhood with thousands of people within walking and biking range, why should any mom and pop struggle?
But trust me on the sunscreen, lake. Walking traffic will cure what ails it.