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When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD? Print E-mail
Friday, 04 April 2008

Over the last several weeks we have witnessed two Transit Oriented Developments (TODs) announced by the private sector.  Interestingly enough, neither development featured JTA's planned Bus Rapid Transit System, despite a decade of planning.  Instead, both developers chose to feature potential rail corridors.

Last week, MetroJacksonville uncovered a potential transit oriented development south of San Marco.  Dubbed Jackson Square, the development spans both side of Phillips Highway, and could potentially be Jacksonville's first true transit oriented development.  It features residential over retail, enclosed parking provided mostly in structures, and a pedestrian friendly development that tries to minimize the sea of parking that most suburban developments feature.  In their site plan, they include a potential Skyway extension, and a potential commuter rail stop along the Florida East Cost Railway line.

In addition to this, the development group for a project called Bay Street Station went before the Downtown Design Review Board (formerly the Design Review Committee). Bay Street Station is proposed as an 18 story mixed use development adjacent to the Prime Osborne Convention Center and the proposed Jacksonville Transportation Center. 

Renderings of this project feature two hotels, a movie theatre, health club, an office building, and a 9 story enclosed parking garage.  In addition, it is designed to interact with the Jefferson Street Skyway Station and renderings also depict a streetcar line in the center of Water Street.  Despite the fact that JTA’s BRT plan runs next to the site, it was not incorporated in the renderings.

So that’s two developments that are next to the proposed BRT lines, yet they elected to include a Commuter Rail and Streetcar station (which are currently going through JTA feasibility studies), and one of which is proposing a mile long extension of the Skyway, arguably Jacksonville’s biggest boondoggle of the 20th century.

The Jackson Square development is particularly interesting, because it highlights a “30 foot JTA Transit Corridor”.  This is officially the Southeast BRT line, yet for unknown reasons, Jackson Square neglected to mention Bus Rapid Transit, BRT, Billion Dollar Bus, or any terminology that might associate it with a bus. 

The fact is that everyone, particularly developers, are well aware of the bus stigma, and the last thing they want to do is encumber their flashy new development with a bus station.  Instead, they propose an extension of the $184 million, 2.5 mile skyway , rather than drop a bus station on this map.

Even JTA has admitted that a rail-based system will generate more riders than a BRT system.  We now can see, based on these plans, that private developers tend to agree.  In addition, facts have shown that rail-based systems can be built for far less than JTA’s BRT System.  Finally, any transportation expert will tell you that no matter what you are moving (freight or people), rail is by far the most efficient way to do it.

Currently, JTA does not have a cohesive transit plan for the future. While JTA has been working on a bus plan that could cost more than the rail systems in Nashville, Austin, Santa Fe, Minneapolis, and Orlando combined, developers are anxious to construct TOD’s and TAD’s around potential rail transit solutions that are right under our nose, if we would simply take advantage of our existing assets.

 
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>> 8 Comments
hank
April 4, 2008, 7:51 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

You have to hand it to the developers of these two projects for looking at infill sites close to downtown and for actually putting something behind the "town" in the Town Center concept with residential over retail.  I agree that any mention of BRT in these proposals would be more of a liability than an asset - developers are aware that their market demography thinks of buses in the same category as dental visits, taxes, and waiting in line at the DMV.

As for the skyway extension, why the heck not!  The only thing that made the skyway a boondoggle (besides the construction rip-off factor) was that it goes nowhere!  An extension to an actual destination could be just the thing that is needed to get ridership up.  Skyways are a great concept for urban-core transportation because they don't require large footprints that interfere with existing corridors.  I had hoped for the same thing along the Brooklyn development corridor but apparently most people in JAX think of the skyway as a bedpan that is better ignored rather than a transportation strategy that could actually work.
Steve
April 4, 2008, 9:40 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

While I don't think it would happen, I have no problem with the extension (assuming that the cost is not astronomical).
Traveller
April 4, 2008, 10:36 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

Will the new Kings Avenue Station development prevent or at least impede any further extension of the Skyway in that direction?
Steve
April 4, 2008, 10:44 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

Will the new Kings Avenue Station development prevent or at least impede any further extension of the Skyway in that direction?

No - there is a small corridor between the buildings and garage:

http://www.ervinlovettmiller.com/project/kings-avenue-station
JeffreyS
April 4, 2008, 11:01 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

Mr. Miller it is time for the JTA to get on the train. Jacksonville citizens think so, our city council thinks so and apparently so do the private developers. All Aboard is the call and it is past time to answer.
Coolyfett
April 5, 2008, 10:50 pm
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

Will the new Kings Avenue Station development prevent or at least impede any further extension of the Skyway in that direction?

Naw, I was at that site a few weeks ago. The construction didn't go that far back. Matter fact even with the stacks of supplies it still did not get in the way of where a 2 monorail tracks could go. If you get a chance check it out. The tracks could wind behind that walkway thing they have over there.
Coolyfett
April 5, 2008, 11:09 pm
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?

Damn mybad Steve I just read that you said what I said...DOH!!

Man these 2 developments are gonna be a good look if they both get built. I really hope this happens for Jacksonville. Jacksonville deserves this type of set up. Plus you got the Kings Avenue Hotels that is actually in the building process so Kings Avenue Station is gonna get a lot of fares. Jefferson and Convention Center will also get many fares if the Bay Street Station project gets built.

Google: Riverside Skyway Station

I was told about this by a buddy of mine so I googled it. I know some have an issue with the Skyway being in Riverside and Springfield but I feel if they do expand, JTA should stay consistent and not do that trolley thing. Here were I live they have heavy rail trains stations in historic areas and it works. It doesn't ruin the history or become an eye soar.

I doubt JTA is going to go through with that BRT plan. They may probably never Officially address the change of plans but just do the right thing.
Ocklawaha
April 6, 2008, 12:13 am
Re: When will JTA provide the 'T' in TOD?



I still think it's ugly, but what the heck, sort of like a 3 legged hound dog, I've grown fond of our "Galloping Gander".

Jackson Square, is just what our bastard-child-of-the-transit-world needs. Add this anchor to the South end of the Skyway, and make sure the San Marco Station is WEST of the tracks. This little monorail could finally get the chance to prove it's self to us. 4 car trains anyone? Get that thing OVER (NOT UNDER) I-95 and show those bound for Epcot that we are WAY ahead of them. "Uh, say Martha, what was the name of that cool city where that monorail train went over the freeway? Would THAT be a cool place to expand or what?"

With enough "push" from the developer and $$ side, perhaps we could get JTA and the City to wake up and FINISH THE SKYWAY!

At least to a logical set of terminals. Would they be?

Jackson Square
Rosa Parks
Stadium
Blue Cross/Fidelity
Union Station/Bay Street Station

This is getting interesting, I want to take a look at the models of these and see how they size up.


Headed to Gateway Mall... Oh yes it could!

Add to this regular commuter rail trains running on the FEC and the CSX "A" line, with a couple of Baldwin, Gainesville, or Fernandina Runs thrown in... Plus streetcars in the core, that use parts of the old F and J line to reach the NW side of the City, Panama Park, Moncrief and we'd have a real transit system without the costs of heavy rail.

and now something from JTA...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...


Ocklawaha
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