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Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development? Print E-mail
Thursday, 13 March 2008

Move over Charlotte, Will Jackson Square At San Marco become the first of several transit oriented developments to line Jacksonville's potential commuter rail lines and revitalize Philips Highway in the process?

 Proposed by First Star Development, Jackson Square At San Marco would be constructed along Philips Highway, just south of I-95, becoming a catalyst that could bring much needed life and excitement to a forgotten and blighted area of Jacksonville's Southside.

Conceptual plans show a partially pedestrian friendly development centered around a transit station with the potential to connect nearby residents to commuter rail, skyway, and Bus Rapid Transit lines.  Conceptual plans also include a pedestrian overpass to connect with the under utilized FEC Park and the potential extension and re-alignment of River Oaks Road, linking Hendricks Avenue with Philips Highway and Douglas Anderson School of the Arts.

While this is the type of development that Jacksonville needs to combat rising gas prices, traffic gridlock and sprawl, the site plan does highlight some areas we need to improve on as more and more of these developments come online.

 

1. Embrace The Pedestrian First Concept

 Site plans illustrate the redevelopment of a large portion of the immediate commercial corridor along with a map highlighting the radius of a five minute walk from the transit station.  Unfortunately, instead of pedestrian oriented building placements which could lead to connectivity between adjacent property owners in the area, the site plan shows a suburban strip center layout with outparcels that are more compatible with those on Blanding Blvd., as opposed to being neighborhood friendly.  Little to no effort has been put into improving Philips Highway to make it more pedestrian and cyclist friendly.


This can be reversed by the Jacksonville's Planning Department, the community, developers and architects embracing a larger vision and redesigning the retail spaces to line the street.

2. Eliminate Transit Mode Duplication

Last week JTA officials revealed to Metro Jacksonville staff their desire to re-evaluate the current proposed bus rapid transit corridors, based on the results of the ongoing commuter rail plan.  The Jackson Square drawings point out the potential for wasteful duplication if JTA fails to keep its word.  If proven feasible, a single commuter rail stop could serve this development, without the additional investment in extending the skyway or building a dedicated busway this far south of downtown.  Doing so, would allow our monetary resources to used for needs in additional areas of our community.  In this area, if bus rapid transit is still needed, buses could run in mixed traffic along Philips Highway, taking advantage of the corridor's parallel parking lanes.
 



This image shows a slightly modified plan that has the same amount of density as the current layout.  However, the buildings have minimum setback requirements that make them adjacent to the sidewalk, thus changing the atmosphere of Philips Highway, yet still accommodating to vehicular traffic.

 

The first phase of Midtown Miami was recently constructed on the site of a former FEC railyard.  Despite being miles north of Downtown, this shopping center's storefronts line the neighborhood's existing streets, creating an urban pedestrian friendly street edge and connectivity with the surrounding properties in the area.   Adjusting the building footprints in the Jackson Square plan would bring a similar feel and atmosphere to Philips Highway.


Developments like Jackson Square and Bay Street Station show that the possibility for transit oriented development exists in Jacksonville.  Embracing concepts like minimum building setbacks on a large scale, along with using existing rail infrastructure for mass transit allows these developments to transform their entire surrounding neighborhoods, as opposed to only revitalizing land within their boundaries.

 
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>> 160 Comments
Lunican
March 13, 2008, 8:42 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

It's pretty interesting that these renderings show a proposed commuter rail station at this development instead of a BRT station.
second_pancake
March 13, 2008, 8:43 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I love seeing these concepts and the free-flow of ideas pertaining to the improvement of Jax.  Phillips highway really needs some love or it's going to continue to degrade.  However, that being said, the drawings are pretty but the ground needs to start breaking.  I'm tired of everything being a pipe-dream.
thelakelander
March 13, 2008, 8:49 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

It's pretty interesting that these renderings show a proposed commuter rail station at this development instead of a BRT station.

Is there any secret that the majority of "TOD" style development being announced in this city is taking place either along rail lines or the skyway, as opposed to bus only routes?

If developers are looking for additional investors, its much easier to attract more money to the table for a project supported by a more reliable sexy fixed mode of transit, than one that could pick up and move a year after the development opens.
JeffreyS
March 13, 2008, 9:27 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I love it. The more pedestrian friendly you can make it the more people can take the train to shop at your shoppes.
Steve
March 13, 2008, 10:53 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

YES!  This is what we need!  I do wonder what made them indicate commuter rail stops as opposed to JTA's wildly popular BRT plan.
Jason
March 13, 2008, 11:24 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

What a fantastic proposal.  The transit corridor side facing FEC Park seems very pedestrian friendly and places everything within a short walk of the proposed transit station.  I also like the idea of the skyway extension to that point.  I don't think extending the skyway to tat point would be a duplication because those living in this development would have a more direct and transfer free connection to the DT area and the rest of San Marco.  The commuter rail line would allow travellers from outside of the area to access the area or simply bypass it on their way to the multimodal center.  Another skyway station could also be plopped down at Atlantic Blvd providing a connection point for San Marco Square.  That will allow JTA's "trolly" busses to close the loop by connecting the Atlantic Blvd Station with the Baptist complex and Prudential station via San Marco Blvd.  The skyway could even be lowered down to grade through that corridor to save money on construction and make transfers easier as Ock has suggested in the past.
thelakelander
March 13, 2008, 3:52 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Good point, Jason.  Its exactly one mile from this site to the Kings Avenue Skyway station.
avonjax
March 13, 2008, 5:57 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

When is this project breaking ground?
southwood
March 13, 2008, 10:05 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Anyone discussing neighborhood impact? River Oaks Road between Hendricks & Phillips isn't anywhere near ready/able to handle this dramatic traffic increase.

If you look closely at the map, the main access to this whole development is through River Oaks...again, this is barely a two-lane avenue (esp. when cars are parked on River Oaks). It is by no means a major throughway that can handle the serious traffic increase both from "new" residents of the proposed 4-story family dwellings or from the traffic coming from Hendricks TO the whole development.

Also, the RR crossing at River Oaks is notorious for backing up badly when trains are stopped. This could become a nightmare if the traffic quadruples.

And, for the homeowners on River Oaks, there is no setback...I can't believe this plan could proceed safely without addressing this safety issue.

Will town hall meetings be held?  Anyone know more about timing?
thelakelander
March 13, 2008, 10:27 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Anyone discussing neighborhood impact? River Oaks Road between Hendricks & Phillips isn't anywhere near ready/able to handle this dramatic traffic increase.

If this project progresses, it would have to successfully pass a traffic concurrency study.  For those concerned about River Oaks Road, I'd suggest you contact the Jacksonville Planning Department.

Quote
If you look closely at the map, the main access to this whole development is through River Oaks...again, this is barely a two-lane avenue (esp. when cars are parked on River Oaks). It is by no means a major throughway that can handle the serious traffic increase both from "new" residents of the proposed 4-story family dwellings or from the traffic coming from Hendricks TO the whole development.

As an apartment complex, it could connect directly with Philips Highway, not have any access to River Oaks Road and work out just fine.  It appears the connection to River Oaks makes it easier to get buses using the proposed Bus Rapid Transit corridor from the rail right-of-way back to Philips Highway.

Quote
Also, the RR crossing at River Oaks is notorious for backing up badly when trains are stopped. This could become a nightmare if the traffic quadruples.

Access to River Oaks could be totally avoided if the busway isn't built.  River Oaks residents should be very concerned about the negative impact a bus expressway paralleling the FEC tracks, could have on their crossing and the neighborhood.  Integrating a four story apartment building on that site in a way that enhances the surrounding area is the easy part.  The difficult issue will be dealing with constant bus noise, speed, pollution (both visual and environmental) and decreasing property values coming from the construction of a dedicated busway near this residential area.

Quote
And, for the homeowners on River Oaks, there is no setback...I can't believe this plan could proceed safely without addressing this safety issue.

Including the 100' wide FEC rail corridor, there's at least 150' of space between these buildings and the closest residence on River Oaks.  That's a ton of space.  More could be created if the buildings are moved to directly front Philips Highway with parking behind them.  In any event, at some point, this plan would have to come before nearby residents before approval could be given.

Quote
Will town hall meetings be held?  Anyone know more about timing?

It appears to be early in the process.  If this plan moves forward its sure to change.  The land would also have to be rezoned at some point and the rezoning process would require notices mailed out to neighbors and a public hearing.  To find out where they currently stand, I'd contact the Jacksonville Planning Department.
jeh1980
March 14, 2008, 1:51 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Wow! I like this plan. It's what the area would really need Cool. I hope that it will start real soon.
southwood
March 14, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

lakelander -- thanks for the insights.  The issue with River Oaks is that today it serves as one of the main links between Hendricks and Phillips. Many commuters from Mandarin, San Jose, Lakewood and San Marco use River Oaks as a cut-through to get to Phillips/I-95. If more development is added that will draw countless others onto River Oaks - retail, apartments, etc. -- the volume is going to be entirely too much for that little street to handle. 

This is a residential neighborhood -- kids, cars, etc. The setbacks I was thinking about weren't up near the development, they're the ones that might include the city's easement and the yards of the houses on River Oaks. These are small lots with no room for widening whatsoever...I can't even imagine how they could put more cars on this small street.

Thanks for the tip about contacting Planning to see about status, etc.
thelakelander
March 14, 2008, 10:52 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

lakelander -- thanks for the insights.  The issue with River Oaks is that today it serves as one of the main links between Hendricks and Phillips. Many commuters from Mandarin, San Jose, Lakewood and San Marco use River Oaks as a cut-through to get to Phillips/I-95. If more development is added that will draw countless others onto River Oaks - retail, apartments, etc. -- the volume is going to be entirely too much for that little street to handle. 

This is a residential neighborhood -- kids, cars, etc. The setbacks I was thinking about weren't up near the development, they're the ones that might include the city's easement and the yards of the houses on River Oaks. These are small lots with no room for widening whatsoever...I can't even imagine how they could put more cars on this small street.

Thanks for the tip about contacting Planning to see about status, etc.

No problem, your concerns for River Oaks Road are definately valid.  Because it is used as a short cut between San Jose and Philips (another negative of not having gridded streets to diffuse traffic), as Philips redevelops, its going to be an issue regardless of whether its the Jackson Square site or any other east of the tracks.

I can't think of anyone, with a heart, advocating the elimination of an attractive residential neighborhood to increase vehicular capacity.  Looking from the outside in, this is why its important for areas like this to have a master plan or long range vision set in stone of how the city and JTA will deal with these types of planning and transportation issues.

One way to deal with this issue would be the construction of a railroad overpass over St. Augustine Road (cheaper than building a road overpass) and the closure of the River Oaks track crossing.  This eliminates fast moving thru traffic in the River Oaks residential community and makes Old St. Augustine Road a more viable option for crossover traffic because it would not be affected by heavy rail traffic heading into and from the FEC Bowden Yard. 

Its something that could be done as a part of implementing commuter rail because it also enhances FEC's rail capacity, which could lead to easier negoitations between JTA and the rail company for use of the ROW.  For a change, JTA would bring something to the table in rail discussions, as opposed to asking for what the railroad will view as a negative by itself.....passenger rail liability.

It also helps that between River Oaks and Emerson, there are 12 streets that connect Hendricks to St. Augustine Road, which means crossover traffic would be diffused, instead of being forced down one attractive residential street.
Charles Hunter
March 14, 2008, 10:26 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Putting a freight (and commuter) rail track up in the air is cheaper than putting a road over? Rail overpasses need much much longer approaches, to keep the grades shallow.  Also, if people complain about the 'eyesore' of a road overpass - an elevated rail (what, 2, 3, 4 tracks wide, with Commuter Rail) would be prettier?

I need convincing.
thelakelander
March 14, 2008, 11:13 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Let me try to convince you.

Quote
Rail overpasses need much much longer approaches, to keep the grades shallow.

1. I think we can agree that at grade laying track is cheaper and it takes up  less ROW.  The width of a rail overpass carrying three track would be about the same as a the width of a two lane road.

2. While the approach would be much longer, it would not have to be concrete.  Compacted fill would be used for most of the approach. 

3. The width of the FEC corridor at that point is 100'.  If you constructed a vehicular bridge, the actual bridge would have to span the entire corridor.  On the other hand, the railroad bridge would not have to be 100' long.  It would be around 50'.

4. St. Augustine Road, at that point, is in the middle of a curve and has streets intersecting with it less than a block from the crossing.  You would spend much more constructing a curving +40 ft wide automobile bridge over the FEC tracks than you would with a typical bridge.

5. You would also spend much more on the approach considering there are intersections on both sides of the crossing that would also have to be raised.

Quote
Also, if people complain about the 'eyesore' of a road overpass - an elevated rail (what, 2, 3, 4 tracks wide, with Commuter Rail) would be prettier?

1. The FEC corridor is 100' wide.  There's plenty of space to buffer the bridge, plus the corridor is already lined with a good amount of vegetation.

2. A vehicular bridge would be more of an eyesore, because it would be curving over the tracks, longer, wider and the intersections leading into nearby residential neighborhoods would be raised.  So the stop sign at the end of a residential street could be at a higher elevation than the height of nearby houses.

So, looking at that particular location, I believe based on the argument above, that a railroad overpass would be less expensive and more visually appealing than elevating St. Augustine Road.
Ocklawaha
March 14, 2008, 11:47 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Railroad or highway bridge can be solved right here and now... Highway's go up, railroads DON'T. The reason isn't cost, space or economics of engineering. It boils down to simple formulas that play into how every rail car is routed. Who can do it fastest? Who can do it for the least fuel? Adding a mile or two of grade to the FEC would be about as well recieved as us telling them we'll start landing aircraft from JIA out on their tracks tomorrow!

Fella's this is one idea this IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!


Ocklawaha
Steve
March 15, 2008, 12:06 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I don't think anyone is saying that FEC would do this out of the goodness of their hearts, they would probably need some incentive.  In addition, I'd also think that a combination overpass/underpass would be a viable option as well - it wouldn't raise the grade too much, and it wouldn't be too unsightly.

Not too mention, what is the elevation around that site anyway?
thelakelander
March 15, 2008, 12:44 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Quote
In addition, I'd also think that a combination overpass/underpass would be a viable option as well - it wouldn't raise the grade too much, and it wouldn't be too unsightly.

Bingo.  I don't see why a combination of the two isn't possible.  Its not like it hasn't been done before.  Nevertheless, its just a suggestion on how to deal with the issue of traffic destroying residential neighborhoods.  Its not Bible, but dialouge is needed on issues like this.  Too often we get wrapped in our own little box of agendas and forget about the people being negatively impacted by other's grand visions.  Once again, another reason why a long range plan is needed before we start spending money on any of this.
thelakelander
March 15, 2008, 9:16 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Quote
Not too mention, what is the elevation around that site anyway?

The railroad grade is about 5ft higher than the stretch of St. Augustine Road east of the crossing and about 10ft higher than the lowest point of the road, west of the crossing. 

When we came up with the commuter rail layouts, we always knew passenger rail down the FEC corridor would end being much more expensive and difficult to pull off, than the CSX A and S-Line corridors.  JTA's consultants will discover this too as their studies continue.  I think to successfully get commuter rail in this corridor, a deal would have to include several overpasses/underpasses along these tracks.  Right now, there's no bridge to cross the tracks between downtown and University and there's already heavy rail traffic using this corridor.  You'll probably pull in a lot of "anti-rail/mass transit period" support if bridges of some sort were added somewhere in the Southbank, this particular area and Sunbeam or Shad Roads in Mandarin.  It would raise the costs, but it would enhance the flow of vehicular traffic on several major east/west streets in the Southside, plus help capacity issues with FEC.  Its basically killing two birds with one stone.  That's something you can't do if the decision remains to build a busway in this corridor.

What are some other options that could be implemented to solve long term traffic and neighborhood integration problems along the Philips Highway corridor?
Ocklawaha
March 15, 2008, 3:50 pm
Ocklawaha Rambles on about Grades, Overpasses, Trains and Track...

Elevation of maybe a couple of feet extra, might be a hard sell, but maybe we could get that much... Under no incentives or conditions do I see FEC allowing us a 10-20 foot elevated right-of-way. There are simply no conditions or incentives that would make the fuel costs of starting a 100 car train of 250,000 pound freight cars up and over that hill, come down and stay down.

I'm not saying their isn't a solution, simply put, from the railroads view. My recent talk with the VP over there, says highways OVER rail at Sunbeam, St. Augustine and a few more choke points...  Using modern tunnel tech, their is no reason why the road can't just get down below the railroad if we don't want overpasses. Water table, or sea level should have no effect on a properly engineered underpass.

Railroads are built with a ruling grade (yes even in Florida where believe it or not, the steepest grades on the old Atlantic Coast Line, and Seaboard Air Line Railroads were found)... exceed the ruling grade and your head goes into the bucket. So let's say we get an 10' rise in the track out of FEC. With a 1/2% grade, starting our freight transfer for CSX or NS at 100 cars is equal to pulling 25 MILLION pounds up hill. The reason I am saying this would quickly become a big deal is:

1. Extra fuel, burning fuel is not cheap anyway you cut it.
 
2. Add an extra Locomotive? See the first reason.

3. Starting or stopping a heavy train on the "hill" is costly on two other appliances. Brakes and Wheel slip, both come at a price.

4. FEC, CSX, NS etc... pay rent or "PER DIEM" charges or fee's for every foreign line freight car that rolls on their rails. Allow your track to trash the frame, brakes or appliances and it could get costly. Remember, railroading is very profitable, but THE MOST cash intensive business bar none. Where else could you see a 250,000 pound brand new freight car, with all the latest appliances, From distant Canada or Mexico, so fresh the $125,000 dollar price tag is still hanging from the door.... Traveling 6,000 miles round trip, with a load of rare sand, worth about $1,500 dollars... Hell the shipping charges are $2,250! This little sample is to show that cars that get messed up, delayed or sit, won't pay the rent... Even our little hill is just one more obstacle to profit, that line is razor thin and very big bucks.

5. Some hills are so severe that they require "helper districts" where extra teams of Locomotive lash-ups, wait for the next heavy up or down train to supply the extra muscle to get up and over, or to provide the extra weight and brakes to slow the damn thing down. (I'll admit this isn't one of those type of hills, but it perhaps gives some of you an idea, why you saw engines on the front and back of that train in NC, PA, NY, CA, AZ, CO, UT, WA, OR, etc...) Oh hell, one more freebie too: Why were the extra, or "helpers" cut into the back, the middle and the front of the train? Why not just hook them all on the front?

Give UP?Huh?

Come on... Give it a try?

No luck yet?

ANSWER: The weakest link between the cars is the couplers, sometimes here in flat as a pancake Florida, we get "Broken Trains" (IE: the couplers broke like castings will sometimes do... shattered like glass) The weight or motion was just too much or a tiny bubble, or impurity deep within the coupler as it was cast created a "Fault line", sooner or later it would just give up. Now if we have 100 very heavy cars, and hang all the engines on the front, we are tempting fate to break couplers. So to better distribute the forces some engines will push, others pull and the middle group may do either.

Hope all this "RAILROAD 101" helps you, the developer or the City to come up with a good solution that makes everyone happy. We should argue for the railroad that NOTHING is done to mess up that passenger speedway. As for costing "FAR MORE THEN THE "S" or "A"... I don't agree, FEC is not the old FEC, and they will be the nicest of the whole group to work with...


Ocklawaha
Matt
March 15, 2008, 4:11 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Fancy that.
thelakelander
March 15, 2008, 5:43 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Great info, Ock.  Given that the road is already about ten feet lower than railroad grade, a railroad overpass/road tunnel, etc. should be fine without having to raise the current track elevation.  As for the cost, if bridges or extra track is needed, in addition to ROW, its going to cost more than a line that does not require the extra frills.  I don't see any way it can't cost more.
Ocklawaha
March 16, 2008, 12:24 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

The key here is the Florida East Coast WAS once completely double tracked, Jacksonville to Miami. Add to this long passing sidings due to heavy passenger traffic and high speeds and we have one heck of a right of way to work with. In the City, St. Augustine, Bowden, Terminal, Bunnell etc... all of the right of way is 3 or even 4 track! Adding a line of railroad on such a ready made spot is a piece of cake.
Ocklawaha
thelakelander
March 16, 2008, 10:11 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Yes its cheaper than building a parallel busway or road, but you would not need to add additional track to the A Line, which is why I say it would be cheaper.  Also, are you assuming there would be no cost to use private rail ROW?
Jason
March 25, 2008, 9:07 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

For some reason I just realised that the east side of Phillips is to be developed as well.  Having buildings of 20-30 feet fronting the highway wil be surreal.  I don't think that segment of US-1 has ever seen development like that.
thelakelander
March 25, 2008, 9:10 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

No, but it would transform that entire area into a district on its own, which is a far cry from what it has fallen down to today.
Jason
March 25, 2008, 9:48 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

You got that right.  I don't know why suburban development hasn't taken to the concept of provideing parking in the rear of the building before recently.
RyanL
March 25, 2008, 10:18 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Does anyone know who is planning on developing this project? I've looked up CRVI Phillips LLP and First Star Development and can't seem to get an actual office or company. Has anyone found out a contact person for the developers?
thelakelander
March 25, 2008, 10:51 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

You can try to contact the planning department or the architect.
southwood
April 22, 2008, 9:29 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Anyone know where this subject (development of Philips at Wishart/95) stands? The Jerry Hamm dealership property is now completely vacant...wondering if there has been any official discussion of this project or if there is any plan for community consultation?
southwood
May 7, 2008, 12:02 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

ok...looks as though something is happening in the area that this discussion thread has been talking about. As of this week, there are "road closed" barriers around the entire area.

Anyone know if demolition is about to take place and what, if any, real permitted plans are on the books???
Jason
May 7, 2008, 1:46 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I haven't heard of any actual plans.  I thought this was still in the concept stages.
thelakelander
May 7, 2008, 1:55 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I'm not aware of any rezonings, development approvals or marketing taking place for this development.  Whoever has purchased the property could just be clearing it, which is something that happens quite often in Jacksonville.
Steve
May 7, 2008, 2:29 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I'm not aware of any rezonings, development approvals or marketing taking place for this development.  Whoever has purchased the property could just be clearing it, which is something that happens quite often in Jacksonville.

We do that a lot - especially downtown.
southwood
May 8, 2008, 8:28 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Neighbors on River Oaks are getting vibes that this project is moving forward...fast.  And they're NOT HAPPY.

Anyone know which councilman has this property in his/her district? Or who else we can contact to get details and determine if there has been ANY consideration given to the barely one-lane street they're planning to send hundreds/thousands of cars down?
thelakelander
May 8, 2008, 9:49 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

That thin strip is a part of District 9.  Warren Jones is the councilman for this property's area.  You can also contact the City's traffic engineering department, but I seriously don't think they have approvals to do anything other than possibly clearing the property.
Diego Martin
May 13, 2008, 4:46 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Neighbors on River Oaks are getting vibes that this project is moving forward...fast.  And they're NOT HAPPY.

I live on River Oaks Road but West of Hendricks. I have not heard of these plans, and merely stumbled upon them through this forum. Was this ever featured on the Fla Times-Union? Seems that I have missed it, if it ever were.

Please enlighten me... with money as tight as it is, and with similar previously well-trumpeted plans like East San Marco being indefinitely shelved, who is the major backer of this project??
ConcernedCitizen
June 17, 2008, 6:04 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

This is a well-established neighborhood with hard working people whose families have lived in the area for decades. What about the folks who live there? It sounds like no meetings with local residents have been scheduled or held.

I can't promise that it's correct, but try this contact info (and please update the forum here if you find out anything worth reporting back):

  Firststar Development, Inc.
  Stephen R. Cissel
  230 Canal Blvd
  Suite 4
  Ponte Vedra, FL 32082
thelakelander
June 17, 2008, 9:27 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I don't think its gotten that far yet.  From what I've been told, this development is in the early conceptual phases of design.  Before they can really move forward, they will be required to go through public hearings where local residents will be able to voice their concerns.  In the meantime, local residents should contact their council representative to notify him of their concerns.
southwood
June 22, 2008, 9:09 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

In May, I sent a public info request to both councilmen -- Shad and Jones -- whose districts will be affected by this development. Here is what Shad's assistant wrote in reply:

The legislation for this project has not been filed, yet. As soon as it is, we will let you know. The only thing that has been turned in so far is a pending road-closure application for Mitchell Place (District 9). The attached documents, that were given to us by the developer, are probably the same ones you are seeing on Metro Jacksonville. There are no other public records at this time. Please give us a call if you have any questions.

Me again...River Oaks Road is NOT wide enough to handle the traffic increase, regardless of whether or not the rail component is included. The neighbors are organizing to see that this project, if it begins to get legs, takes that reality into consideration. If you're not convinced, drive it one day at 5:15 p.m., after a train has backed up traffic and there are cars legally parked on River Oaks. You can barely get through the maze. Add thousands more cars and it'll be a nightmare of traffic AND extremely dangerous for the families with children who live on River Oaks.

The closure of River Oaks at the RR tracks is the best alternative, though a decision of this sort will be fought by drivers who use it as a cut-through to Phillips/I-95. When the time comes, those of us on the east/River Oaks side will kindly ask all those cut-throughers if they'd like to see this sort of traffic increase on their own residential  street. It's a legitimate question, and one that should cause the city to carefully revisit their traffic planning for this major development. 
funbank
June 27, 2008, 2:18 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I live on Mitchell Place at the north end of the block and was amazed that they closed all the access around Jerry Hamm.  At first I was told that the streets could not be closed until the city turned them over to the developer after all of the permitting and council approval.  After I called another city department I was told that the streets would only be closed temporarily until site testing for envirionmental was done.  I told them that the streets were closed and that was unacceptable.  Service ST is now open but the other streets to the south up to River Oaks are closed.  This is crap.  I sent an email to Warren Jones on May 8 and have yet to receive a reply.  My end of the street has very many rehabed houses and has become quite nice.  I hate that this mess is coming.  We were just getting rid of the street walkers and now we will have all this noise.  There are already houses that have been sold to this developer that are now boarded up awaiting demolition. I do like the transportation aspect of the plan but all of that retail will be hard to swallow next to what is now a quiet neighborhood.  I think the city and the developer should be more forthcoming on plans since they will be affecting the current homeowners in the area.   I guess the gerrymandered part of district 9 on the southside is not important enough for Mr Jones to respond.
long time san marcoan
July 1, 2008, 12:22 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Being a long time resident of San Marco in a home adjoining FEC Park, I am amazed at the proposals that include this park and neighborhood.  I grew up in the same home that I am currently living in and attended Southside Grammar School and Landon High School.  FEC Park was used by Landon as a practice field for football and also to a limited degree for baseball.  This has always been a passive park for the neighborhood with a large flat area.  In recent years, the park has become a place where people from other neighborhoods are coming to play football, soccer, and other sports.  The park really has only a limited amount of parking and the parking is on streets adjacent to the park and adjacent to homes in the neighborhood.  Often, the cars parked on River Oaks Road near the railroad tracks cause a bottleneck and unsafe condition.  In the period when I was growing up, everyone walked to the park including the football team from Landon.

Now we are seeing the beginnings of a proposal to possibly develop the park further, put in a transit station for the Skyway Express, and even build an overpass over the railroad tracks.  The proposals that are being put forward even mention the ability of people coming to the area and walking to the San Marco shopping area.  If you frequent San Marco, you know that there is no parking available now and most of the restaurants do not have space available to sit and eat during peak times even if you find a parking space or get there by walking.  We also have an under utilized parking garage on Kings Avenue and Skyway Express station and we are talking about extending the Skyway Express and building another station about one mile away.  In theory and when you look at models, proposals, and drawings, this looks good to a lot of people, especially a developer trying to build a major development. 

If the San Marco development by giants like Regency and St. Joe is on hold or delayed because of the current economic situation, why would this new development be any better to proceed at this time?  Are we being prepared to give government assistance to the new development?  Is the new development going to be filled with low income housing or public assistance housing?  Are we as neighbors to the project not being fully informed until it is too late or almost impossible to make a difference in the type or scale of the new project?  When a previous proposal was made to put a dog run in FEC Park, I was informed that San Marco Preservation had signed off on the project as well as Art Shad, the local councilman.  I was surprised and asked if there was any discussions with the neighbors residing on or adjacent to the park.  I was told that the neighbors were contacted that lived adjacent to the park.  This is not true.  I have lived at the same address for all of my life and no one contacted me or made an attempt to contact me. 

A development of this magnitude needs to be fully discussed with public, private, and government groups before decisions are made.  Back room deals that involve taxpayer dollars should not happend.  We need to make sure that any government participation in this or any project like this is above board and in the sunshine.  Our city government is looking for ways to provide necessary services with limited tax revenues available and we always seem to have money for pet projects or government assistance to private projects. 
JeffreyS
July 1, 2008, 5:07 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Road and parking improvements are something residential developers seem to go overboard with in northeast Florida.  If you are have traffic issues you can not get a developer in fast enough.  The city ignores areas where no development is going on.  The developer is the only way you will see infrastructure improvement.  Consider supporting this as the means to your ends.  This development allows you to work with the management and growth of the area.  The Craig feild people believe they have won but it is just a stay.  When the development is happening is when you can make demands.
thelakelander
July 1, 2008, 5:12 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

JeffreyS has a point.  If any improvements need to be made in this area, this is a chance for local residents in the surrounding area to work with the city and the developer to create some type of development that benefits all parties, especially those existing residents impacted by the proposed development. 

At this point, it does not seem like this development is far along.  Before they can do anything worthwhile (other than buying the property, closing streets and demolishing the existing structures), they'll have to rezone the land, which will require public hearings.  River Oaks residents will have their say in what eventually happens with this site.
02roadking
July 1, 2008, 5:26 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

From the Sunday T/U's  "in the pipeline" biz section.


St. Johns River Water Management District review
Construction of Jackson Square at San Marco 
Business Type: Commercial
Project Address: Philips Highway near Interstate 95
Entry Date: 6/26/2008
File Date: 6/5/2008
Acreage: 17.3
City Development Number:
Agent: Cypress Realty, Austin, Texas
Owner: CRVI Phillips LLP
Engineer: Environmental Services Inc
Engineer Phone: (904) 470-2200
 
southwood
July 1, 2008, 9:15 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Latest update from the City (via Councilman Shad's office):
The PUD application was received in the Planning Department on 6/23 and the Ordinance number was assigned this past Friday. 2008-563 will be introduced at the 8/12 City Council meeting. There will be public hearings at Council on 8/26, at Planning Commission on 8/28 and at the Land Use & Zoning (LUZ) Committee on 9/3. The Planning Dept. is currently reviewing the application (which includes a traffic impact study) and will submit its report to the Planning Commission on 8/28.

Here's how the developer (First Star) describes the project and status:
We are very early in the process, we just filed for zoning.
We are in the process of cleaning up the site by demolition which should start in July.
This will be a mixed use community planned as a TOD which stands for a Transportation Oriented Development utilizing mass transit systems like the BRT and the Skyway light rail system as it is extended south along the existing railroad right of way.

The first phase of the community should be apartments positioned in the market for the young up and coming market that wants to be located close in to downtown and likes a very active lifestyle that is associated with the urban lifestyles of good health, leisure time and work-live-play settings.  San Marco is a beautiful area and this “redevelopment site” will be a great asset for the generation looking for a place to live close to work so they don’t spend two hours every day in traffic. 
Jason
July 2, 2008, 10:14 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Sounds like they are sticking to the idea of extending the skyway.
thelakelander
July 2, 2008, 10:26 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I don't think they are willing to pay to expand it.   If they aren't, it probably won't be extended south anytime soon (ex. before your newborn graduates high school).
Ocklawaha
July 2, 2008, 8:58 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Interesting, but I can't imagine the Skyway expansion being held up with such major dollars at stake. Extending South to Atlantic is almost a MUST to make the Southbank branch anything but an expensive horizontal elevator. A ROSA PARKS type center at the FEC/Skyway/Atlantic would be a way to work BRT WITHOUT going into downtown at all.

The developers are in a real power position with the city, they should use it.

JTA better wake up and smell the coffee, LRT or Skyway is the only thing that makes any sense here, in addition to commuter rail.

JTA needs to figure out what a "Transfer" is and start using them.

Get the fares off the Skyway completely and as it expands, allow it to replace the downtown "PCT TROLLEYS"

Otherwise fill in the lesser downtown shuttles with H2 fuel cell or electric buses, shortly buses.

DAMN IT COJ, GIVE ME A CRACK AT THIS!


Ocklawaha
Charles Hunter
July 2, 2008, 10:55 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I don't see the Skyway being extended to Jackson Square.  There is just no money or political will to do so.
Unless the developer is going to do it.
thelakelander
July 2, 2008, 11:01 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I seriously don't see that happening.  To recoup the money on such an investment, Jackson Square would probably need to be three or four times as dense as plans currently show.

My guess is that JTA is still pushing BRT down that corridor and if they get approval from FEC to build on their property, it will be connected to downtown with a busway.

Btw, having a busway in that area is something River Oaks residents should probably be more concerned about.  A luxury infill development raises nearby land values, but having buses speed through on a continuous basis belching out diesel fumes will have the reverse effect.
Coolyfett
July 3, 2008, 1:02 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Hmm. They all ready have a San Marco Station. What would they call this new one St Nicholas Station  or Atlantic Station??
Ocklawaha
July 4, 2008, 12:14 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

While the costs of the Skyway extension should be slight, as 75% of the costs are already invested in the control system, equipment and O & M base/car barn. With these economys in mind and JTA's expressed desire to reach Kings Avenue Station Hotel via Skyway, it would seem a minor undertaking. One that begs the question will "BRT" come to mean: BUSES REPLACE THINKING?

Looks like another here we go again Jacksonville...


Ocklawaha
southwood
July 4, 2008, 10:03 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

lakelander wrote:
Btw, having a busway in that area is something River Oaks residents should probably be more concerned about.  A luxury infill development raises nearby land values, but having buses speed through on a continuous basis belching out diesel fumes will have the reverse effect.

Does ANYONE know if this really IS going to be a "luxury" development -- I can understand how people would pay for "luxury" and proximity to downtown by moving to the new high-rise apartments on the southbank.

But let's be honest - it's a stretch to think they'd opt for Phillips Hwy, with its current residents/transients, the trains that will be sounding their horns at the River Oaks crossing right through their windows and the possible bus station in their back door. 

Something's off here.  Anyone know more about who these apartments are really going to be targeted to?  Also, anyone know how tall they're going to be be, story-wise?
thelakelander
July 4, 2008, 11:30 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

lakelander wrote:
Btw, having a busway in that area is something River Oaks residents should probably be more concerned about.  A luxury infill development raises nearby land values, but having buses speed through on a continuous basis belching out diesel fumes will have the reverse effect.

Does ANYONE know if this really IS going to be a "luxury" development -- I can understand how people would pay for "luxury" and proximity to downtown by moving to the new high-rise apartments on the southbank.

But let's be honest - it's a stretch to think they'd opt for Phillips Hwy, with its current residents/transients, the trains that will be sounding their horns at the River Oaks crossing right through their windows and the possible bus station in their back door. 

Something's off here.  Anyone know more about who these apartments are really going to be targeted to?  Also, anyone know how tall they're going to be be, story-wise?


Although Jacksonville is behind in this style of development, this type of project appeals to a segment of the urban market that overpriced luxury highrises on the river don't.  There are several of these type of developments on the edge of downtowns in cities like Charlotte, Denver, Salt Lake City and Austin. The site plan also shows a development featuring multiple levels (four stories), parking decks, private swimming pools and residential over retail.  Many of these are characteristics not associated with low income housing.



Quote
The first phase of the community should be apartments positioned in the market for the young up and coming market that wants to be located close in to downtown and likes a very active lifestyle that is associated with the urban lifestyles of good health, leisure time and work-live-play settings.

Examples of similar styled multi-family housing in other cities:

Charlotte


San Diego


Emeryville, CA


Austin
Ocklawaha
July 4, 2008, 11:45 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

As the city urbanizes, and infill becomes more dense, THIS is the "investment gold mine of the future," these tight, close in, often run down neighborhoods are headed for greatness. Add real mass transit and the places will explode like wild flowers in the spring. Our job as concerned citizens is to keep JTA directed towards high quality answers and not to trash the opportunities for BILLIONS of investment dollars on some cheap imitation transit system. "Looks like a trolley" or "as good as rail only cheaper" just won't get the job done. Lakelander is right, these developments are the engine that will drive future cities...But not without the fuel...TRANSIT.


Ocklawaha
southwood
July 4, 2008, 11:54 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Lakelander...that helps some, but still, I've spent a lot of time in both Charlotte and Austin (and if this development happens without some thought to impact on the surrounding neighbors and homes, I might move to one of those permanently)...AND, I live in the River Oaks area, so I know it well.  This area is NO Charlotte and it's NO Austin.

Here's something I noted when I looked more closely at the Jackson Sq. schematic -- they're proposing a new traffic signal at the Phillips entrance in the middle of the development. Do they KNOW how fast cars come off 95 onto Phillips?  These cars are coming off a major highway going 50-70 mph (before they slow to the 45 mph of Phillips) -- and now they are going to stop for a traffic signal?

I just don't understand how the traffic reality of this massive development isn't being addressed...yet.

In the road realignment concept, they're also showing a new signal on Atlantic that will apparently be designed to move traffic south toward Phillips via White Ave. This will become a huge enticement to traffic that currently has to run down Atlantic to Phillips or Hendricks to go south on this new cut-through.

With this potential new routing -- that traffic will divert onto the White now, speeding past Douglas Anderson High School (small street/dangerous), and down the "new" River Oaks (small street/dangerous).

Most of the neighbors I've spoken with over the past week, as this thing is getting more attention and notice, are not as concerned about the development component as they are about the amount of traffic that is going to be fed onto VERY SMALL STREETS that can't handle it.

Again, this makes ABSOLUTELY no sense whatsoever. It might look easy on an overhead view, but these are very narrow streets, with homes and schools and on-street parking. There is NO way they can handle this traffic realignment.

More power to you on the infill development stuff, I have no problem with the attempt to use space more efficiently and get some of the blight off Phillips. But, this cannot be done in a way that makes life dangerous for people who live on small neighborhood streets that abut this area. 

If they planned one of these in your backyard, you'd probably feel the same way.

If they would simply close the RR crossing at River Oaks, there will be a LOT less concern from the River Oaks neighborhood -- from the neighbors, who will not have to be afraid the kids playing in their front yards will be hit by a bus or by the thousands of cars that will be using this small street and from the potential apartment dwellers, who won't have to hear train horns in their ears all day/night. I'm sure FEC, CSX and NS would love it, too.
JeffreyS
July 4, 2008, 12:10 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Let me say again development is the only answer for your trafic situation. That is where the money comes from to take care of the problem. Do not say we have bad trffic so do not develop. Say we want to develop so take care of our trafic so we can.
thelakelander
July 4, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

JeffreyS is right.  River Oak residents need to take advantage of the developer's investment in this property to push towards the implementation of a solution that benefits all parties.  Leaving things along Philips the way they are now is not the right thing to do, but neither is funneling traffic into the additional existing neighborhoods in the area.  Maybe closing off the River Oaks crossing is the best thing to do to accomodate both sides.
thelakelander
July 4, 2008, 12:24 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Quote
This area is NO Charlotte and it's NO Austin.

Btw, the Austin image is of the Satillo Lofts project.  That particular area of Austin is no panacea.  The city is taking advantage of the new rail metrorail line to renovate this blighted industrial area into a transit oriented development district centered around a new rail stop.

Quote
All is quiet on a Sunday morning on the 11 acres of trash-strewn open space formerly called the rail yard, now more elegantly dubbed the Saltillo District. Not even the squawking of chickens in surrounding back yards disrupts the solitude, though one can always hear the whoosh of speeding cars on nearby I-35. Trailers are lined up north to south; aside from the tracks that still poke through both the paved streets and the brush, most of the signs that this was once a railroad corridor are long gone. On one block, a stack of broken wood lies with plastic soda bottles and other litter near the street. To the south of the next block is a junkyard with piles of discarded fans and metal furniture. The paint of a nearby graffiti mural depicting two cartoonish boys slowly chips away with age.

full article: Here Comes the Neighborhood - www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:165619
southwood
July 4, 2008, 12:25 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

In essence, that's all we're saying. Close River Oaks at the RR tracks.

Develop Phillips in a smart way, and funnel the traffic down streets that are wide enough to handle it: Phillips, Atlantic, Emerson, St. Augustine. Shifting all of the traffic burden of this onto the small neighboring streets isn't safe and isn't smart.
southwood
July 4, 2008, 1:17 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Quote
This area is NO Charlotte and it's NO Austin.

Btw, the Austin image is of the Satillo Lofts project.  That particular area of Austin is no panacea.  The city is taking advantage of the new rail metrorail line to renovate this blighted industrial area into a transit oriented development district centered around a new rail stop.

full article: Here Comes the Neighborhood - www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:165619

VERY interesting piece....thanks for sharing.

Ya know what stood out in my read of it...how the city of Austin involved the community in the planning of this revitalization. The article's author used the word "partnership" to describe the relationship between the residents, city and developers. 

Sadly for us, there's one of the major differences between Austin and Jax.  At this point, Jackson Sq. at San Marco looks to be a prime example of a major neighborhood redevelopment initiative that has been created and, as we're learning, almost executed without any direct community involvement.

If this is the first phase in a major city-sponsored revitalization of Phillips Hwy, it would make sense for the city to approach it that way and get neighbors/taxpayers engaged and involved. But that doesn't appear to be the case here. 

Another thing that's interesting to many of us is how this hasn't even received a whiff of interest from the T-U or Folio. Someone is buying up/taking over homes on Mitchell Avenue and closing that street now, they are demo'ing the Jerry Hamm property and have put up a big, pretty sign (with a scene of the San Marco gazebo and fountain) with a website for info (www.jacksonsquareatsanmarco.com).

Yet no media have even wondered what's going on there, who's being affected, what the city's role in this is, what the taxpayer impact will be...there's a JEA pumping station in that area, there's a railroad crossing that will need to be upgraded or closed, there are traffic lights and street realignment (with property that will need to be bought by the city or the developer for the road realignment) -- who pays for all of this?

Will they only get interested when it's on the city council's agenda?  Just curious.
thelakelander
July 4, 2008, 1:26 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Great points.  It is pretty amazing and unfortunate that the TU or Folio hasn't picked up on what seems like it will be a major development.
JeffreyS
July 4, 2008, 2:46 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I wish the city and the developer would go ahead and publicly solicit and address concerns like Southwood's.
ProjectMaximus
July 4, 2008, 5:08 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I wish the city and the developer would go ahead and publicly solicit and address concerns like Southwood's.

Agreed. I'm all for development but the concerns of the residents in the area should be of high consideration.
Charles Hunter
July 4, 2008, 8:16 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Ugh.  Hope their website improves.  Construction with "Ks"?
I notice their map doesn't highlight the new signal they propose at their entrance off Philips.
And I still say the chances of a Skyway extension to Jackson Square (what a lame name - this isn't New Orleans) are somewhere between "nil" and "never".  Also, the BRT coming I-95 to Philips, diverting into this development, then back onto Philips is a dumb idea, too.  Maybe if the BRT used the FEC corridor from Kings Avenue station to this development, then went out onto Philips, that would make sense.  If the BRT is along Philips at that point, the stop will be along Philips, not in the back.  If you were riding to/from The Avenues or Mandarin on the BRT, would you want to waste time going several blocks off the route for this one stop?

I think I agree with the concerns above - close the RR crossing at River Oaks as a condition of this development.  And am concerned about making White Avenue a major corridor, with a new light on Atlantic.
southwood
July 9, 2008, 8:00 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Update on timing (from Councilman Shad's office today):

2008-563 will be introduced at Council on Tuesday, 7/22/08, not 8/12/08.  This does not affect any of the other dates.

Anyone who's been through this before able to explain what to expect at the introduction?
Steve
July 9, 2008, 8:47 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

The City Council Section on COJ.net will be more exact, but here is a bried synopsis:

When a bill is introduced, it is assigned to a committee (this one should be assigned to Land Use and Zoning, referred to as LUZ).  The committee meets during the working day, but really is your best opportinity to get your voice heard.  Once it gets out of committee (Assuming it is approved, think of it like a train going 60 miles an hour and you are a car about a mile and a half ahead sitting on the tracks), it will probably get through the full council.  Only once have I seen a land use bill get passed by LUZ and voted down by the full committee (I'm sure it happens, but it is rare)

This is a quick synopsis, but this should help.
southwood
July 9, 2008, 9:33 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Great info, thanks.

So, based on the schedule we've gotten -- public hearings at Council on 8/26, at Planning Commission on 8/28 and at the Land Use & Zoning (LUZ) Committee on 9/3 -- we shoot for all three?
Steve
July 9, 2008, 9:41 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Great info, thanks.

So, based on the schedule we've gotten -- public hearings at Council on 8/26, at Planning Commission on 8/28 and at the Land Use & Zoning (LUZ) Committee on 9/3 -- we shoot for all three?

It depends - what is your goal?
southwood
July 9, 2008, 9:46 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I guess it's three-tiered:
1. Get facts about what actually is going in the multi-use facility
2. Learn more about the city's plans with transit associated with the development (BRT?)
3. Voice concern about the traffic impact on the small neighborhood streets that surround the development.
thelakelander
July 9, 2008, 9:52 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

I'd recommend shooting for all three. Each board has different members.
thelakelander
July 31, 2008, 3:59 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

First reported here, back in early March 2008, the TU will have a story on this development in tomorrow's paper.

Quote
New mixed-use development in works along Philips Highway
Posted: Thursday, July 31st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
By LIZ FLAISIG
The Times-Union

A new mixed-use development has been proposed for 18 acres along Philips Highway near its intersection with Atlantic Boulevard.

Jackson Square at San Marco is being designed by Basham & Lucas Design Group as a transit-oriented development that would connect residents and pedestrians with buses and other modes of transportation.

FirstStar Development’s plans for the community include 900 multifamily rental units, retail and office space.

See jacksonville.com, for updates and Friday’s Times-Union.

http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/31/new-mixed-use-development-in-works-along-philips-highway/
Jason
July 31, 2008, 5:37 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

The story was covered on First Coast News a night or two ago.
thelakelander
August 1, 2008, 7:17 am
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Quote
Planned community on Philips Highway to be 'transit oriented'

Project for those wanting home near work, public transportation



By LIZ FLAISIG, The Times-Union

A blighted portion of Philips Highway will lose its historical ties to the automobile under plans for a new community focused on urban living near mass transit.

Jackson Square at San Marco is proposed for the 18 acres along Philips near Atlantic Boulevard that Jerry Hamm Chevrolet used to occupy.

The development will have 900 apartments ranging from $700 per month for a studio to $1,500 for the largest two-bedroom unit.

Young professionals and couples without children will be targeted because they are part of a growing group looking for homes close to work and public transportation, said Steve Cissel, partner in FirstStar Development Inc.

Plans for Jackson Square include restaurants and boutique shops in 150,000 square feet of retail space and 200,000 square feet of offices.

Cissel pitched the site to financial partners Cypress Real Estate Advisors of Austin, Texas, because of its proximity to the railroad and the road's long history as a transportation corridor.

The group has also worked for the last 18 months with the Jacksonville Transportation Authority on developing the site as a transit-oriented development, or TOD.

The concept is part of "smart growth" principles that have gained popularity in recent years amid heightening environmental concerns in the real estate industry and interest in shorter commutes.

"This is about a lifestyle issue," Cissel said. "These people are younger, working professionals and empty-nesters or waiting later in life to have children. They want smaller spaces to live in with all the amenities and five minutes to work so they don't have to use a car."

Walking, riding a bike or taking the bus will be options in about 36 months, when Cissel expects residents to move in.

And later down the line, JTA's planned bus rapid transit system and light rail are expected to align with Jackson Square.

Though a spokesman was unavailable to comment, JTA has publicly discussed four other TODs, most prominently Kings Avenue Station with its hotels.

All the sites under way are different, but involve the same concept of furthering use of mass transit to ease congestion as Jacksonville grows.

For Paul Basham, president of Basham & Lucas Design Group Inc., the job of designing a TOD community on this spot makes sense.

"Being a TOD is another layer of mixed-use because you can live, shop and get to work and never use a car to do it," Basham said.

Jackson Square has begun the permitting process and is expected to be under construction within the next 24 months.

It will cost an estimated $75 million to $100 million, Cissel said.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/080108/bus_312154535.shtml
stug
August 6, 2008, 1:15 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

What a one-dimensional article. Disappointing.
southerngirl
August 7, 2008, 4:29 pm
Re: Metro Jacksonville Rail Plan Already Spurring Development?

Disappointing is an understatement.

As the very light-on-details PUD makes its way through the city reviews this month, it'll be interesting to note whether or not those who are reviewing are looking carefully at:

1. Parking -- the developers admit that they're building 50% fewer parking spaces than needed, "to dis-incent residents from having cars." Sure...residents will make the decision not to have cars because there BRT will take them wherever they want to go...to