| Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield |
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| Tuesday, 26 February 2008 | |
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MetroJacksonville has confirmed that a historic New York City subway car has been discovered in the Springfield neighborhood. The subway car, #983, was built by the American Car & Foundry Co. in 1935. At just over 60 feet long and weighing in at 83,963 pounds, it represents a significant piece of New York City and transit history.
Originally operating on New York City's IND line, this photo from NYCSubway.org shows the cars operating on their home turf.
New York City has restored several cars very similiar to the R6 to operating condition for historical purposes. This 'Nostalgia Train' usually operates in regular passenger service during the holidays.
Back in Jacksonville, our R6 is far from restored.
An advertisement for an antiques show at Madison Square Garden remains in the car. Unfortunately the date of the show does not include a year. Admission is $3.
At this point, when and how this subway car arrived in Jacksonville remains unknown. This significant piece of transit history is just the latest addition to a growing collection of historic railcars scattered throughout the Jacksonville metropolitan area. If these relics could be collected in one location, a respectable railroad and transit museum could be assembled. |
February 26, 2008, 4:08 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Take the "A" train!
February 26, 2008, 5:22 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
That's pretty cool....where's it at?
February 26, 2008, 8:23 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Is this in someones backyard?
February 26, 2008, 8:28 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Where is it? Who owns it? And how much do they want for it! That is so awesome! Someone should clean it up, polish it and put it in a park or something. Let people use it.
February 26, 2008, 8:52 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Ionia or Walnut (ock??) and 8th on the northwest block. It sits on someones private property.
February 26, 2008, 8:53 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Consider the Trucks are history, within the trucks of any type of electric railroad car are the large motors, these are full of copper. Not to mention many re-usable parts. So what we have is a car body and frame.
Before we do something rash and buy it to turn it into a new restaurant or a park toy for kids, consider this alternative. We all know we are headed for some sort of electric rail in Jacksonville. Trolley routes and old Subway cars work fine together. Same vehicle, different address. Several museums and historic trolley collections have operating subway cars. The only change is the addition of trolley poles on the roof for power
pick up, and of course new trucks.
By the way, one of the companies we are working with could restore this car to new condition with the above additions.
Ocklawaha
February 26, 2008, 8:58 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Okay, I was hoping it wouldn't become common knowledge as a sudden tourist bloom will send the price through the sky. If you go look, make it as casual as possible. PLEASE don't go into the yard or make yourself a pest. Someone lives right next door. It's on Iona, about 1/2 block North of 8th, in a fenced yard with some blue fabric covering for privacy.
I can confirm it was there long before the fence or the building along Iona today. 35 years or so.
Ocklawaha
February 26, 2008, 9:06 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
ONE MORE TIME! What we need to find is a Jacksonville Streetcar, and THIS IS HOW THEY ARE FOUND! They became sheds, parts of houses and vanished into back yards or industrial buildings all over the City. At least 100+ cars. I know of 5 that were scrapped in the last 30 years. Perhaps another dozen before that... So where are the rest of them? Springfield. San Marco. Riverside. San Jose. St. Augustine. Waycross (at least one). Savannah, Talleyrand. Murray Hill, etc... LOOK FOR THEM! You clue could be as small and weird as the face of this "subway" sticking out of someones Florida room. Do us all a favor, back up and snap a photo, I'll let you know what you've found.
Story? About 28 years ago, I got an excited call from Jax Beach, "I think my house sits on a Trolley!" Our I went, sure enough, a crawl underneath showed the huge metal frame of a "something" industrial. But the wheels, still attached were no where close. Some sort of industrial cart? Close but no.
Another called to say, the same thing, and sure enough, there was the headlight sticking out from the porch! It was there from 1936 until about 1990, then the house was torn down, the neighbors remember "something about it, but they hauled this thing off or something...." Where is it? You tell us.
Ocklawaha
February 26, 2008, 9:23 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
That is too freakin cool! I don't know how you guys find this stuff, lol. Funny what you said about them becoming parts of people's houses. The first thing I thought of when I looked at the blueprint, was ISO shipping containers, and how this would be a great incorporated into a house built out of those containers.
February 26, 2008, 10:55 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
I am no expert on the subject. Could that be refurbished?
February 26, 2008, 11:10 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Sure. Savannah just recently refurbished a historic trolley, in preparation for their proposed riverfront streetcar line.
www.reconnectingamerica.org/public/download/charsavan
By the way, Savannah's demostration streetcar line is estimated to cost less than $2 million / mile.
February 26, 2008, 11:41 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Here's the proof, a similar car, although newer, converted to overhead trolley and running on a streetcar line.
Older cars even better... Let's do it!
Ocklawaha
February 26, 2008, 12:25 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
'is just the latest addition to a growing collection of historic railcars scattered throughout the Jacksonville metropolitan area.'
What other cars are out there?
February 26, 2008, 5:10 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
I'm sure there's probably more out there, but here are a few I know about.
There is a caboose in Arlington's Bruce Park.
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/default.aspx?f=1&guid=710abf41-8447-4cdb-b05d-d3091f489a7a&gid=2
a steam locomotive in the convention center's parking lot.
an Orange Blossom Special passenger car in front of the convention center along Bay Street.
a few former abandoned "office" cars on CSX property behind a warehouse on the Westside.
There's also a few switching locomotives rusting away at the vacant phosphate shipping terminal on Wigmore Street.
February 26, 2008, 6:52 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
What does anyone know about the rail cars that are on the corner of Kingsley Avenue & the crossing in Orange Park? Last time I drove by there, there were like 3-5 refurbished & pretty intriguing - I thought that they were available for parties in some capacity.......
February 26, 2008, 8:54 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
hello everyone. let take this time to introduce myself. my name is bill pollman. i'm the curator of rapid transit cars at the seashore trolley museum in kennebunkport,maine. i'm currently restoring 2 complete cars like car 983. can anyone provide information on the current status of the car. is it available? please contact me by cell phone and or e-mail. my # is (617)828-7309. e-mail is wap1689@nii.net. i'm looking forward to talking with you. thank you,bill.
February 26, 2008, 9:09 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
i forgot to mention the museum's web site. it is www.trolleymuseum.org the cars i'm working on can be viewed. please visit. you will see how we applied trolley poles on the roof. thanks againe,bill.
February 27, 2008, 12:53 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
[tech rage!] third attempt to post, really, something simple. i almost feel like when you have a cute but small joke that nobody can hear the first two times you say it. by the time they say, "what??" for the third time, you're so exasperated, you're like, "never mind -!". [sigh]
I agree with the tenor of the comments---what a beautiful find that would be great to restore.
I thought people might like a cleaner look at the flier--
Cheers!
February 27, 2008, 5:35 am
Bliz o1 and Wap 1689
Hey y'all:
Every private car is as unique as a cruise ship, this is one of my own favorites the "Virginia City."
I'll try and answer your questions. First, the Orange Park Station Cars. This is a "PRIVATE CAR TRACK"... and a beautiful one at that. I'd like to put my own in there someday as well. The private car is just like you saw on the movie or TV show "The Wild Wild West". It is a rolling palace on rails, the interiors are imported woods, carvings, crystal and posh as hell. This is STILL the way the money set travels when they want to go through the country and not over it. Are they available for lease? Well, sometimes. The blue one, Georgia Railroad Number ?? is, you can contact FIRST COAST RAILROAD in Fernandina Beach. But be warned, if you have to ask how much? You can't afford it. Last roumor I heard the charge just to deadhead to Amtrak in Jacksonville and pick you up was in the thousands... Beyond that, the sky is the limit. However you would be American royalty. The staff is waiting on you head to toe, and every menu item is cooked or designed just for you or your group. I HIGHLY suggest asking the comfortable number to bring and split the fare to someplace like Atlanta for a JAG-FALCON game, or a JAG-SAINTS game etc... It is a once in a life time experience. Contrary to TV shows, NOBODY will enter your car from the Amtrak Train pulling it. The door is locked and the gold leaf says "PRIVATE"!
As for the Subway car, we are already working on buying it. We want to move it to a shop where our rail car partner could get to work on it as soon as the City or a foundation releases money for restoration. Edwards Rail Car is already looking into trucks and trolley equipment for the overhead pick up. A headlight and Interurban horn, controllers and new trucks, and a general cleaning, sandblasting and re-fit and she'd roll down Main tomorrow. We DON'T want another car to go onto a farm, a lake cabin or to some museum in New England. This one is FLORIDA'S UNIQUE SUBWAY CAR. But if you'd like to help, be glad to have you on the research team.
Bob Mann
aka: Ocklawaha
Jacksonville Traction Company, Inc.
February 27, 2008, 7:51 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
hello ocklawaha, i'm glad to hear you are making the effort to save the car and keep it in fla. i wish you the best of luck. god forbid,if things should turn the other way,please give me the opportunity to save the car. i do not want to lose this piece of transit hisory. i'm sure you feel the same way.keep me informed on what's going on with this project.thank you very much,bill pollman.
March 1, 2008, 7:19 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
There's a video about the old car found in Springfield on CBS47, including a tour of the inside: http://www.cbs47.com/default.aspx
March 1, 2008, 9:41 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
What a coincidence! I wonder how they found out about that.
March 1, 2008, 10:06 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
What's the chance they just happened to be exploring Ionia? Most likely slim to none.
March 1, 2008, 10:49 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
I know it is frustrating cbs didn't credit MJ for the find. I love however the constant examples of how the media, the politicos and movers and shakers of this city pay attention to us.
P.S. Wayne I love the Porter and Williamson trades. I will miss Ernest however.
March 1, 2008, 11:04 am
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
This thread is too cool. I remember on Southside Blvd seeing a caboose in the Back yard of a home at one of the intersections. It has definitely been removed, and I was wondering why after all those years, they did that.
Ock, youre doing an awesome thing locating these train cars. I hope your idea gets off the ground in short order!
March 1, 2008, 3:09 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
This thread is too cool. I remember on Southside Blvd seeing a caboose in the Back yard of a home at one of the intersections. It has definitely been removed, and I was wondering why after all those years, they did that.
Ock, youre doing an awesome thing locating these train cars. I hope your idea gets off the ground in short order!
Shouldn't that be "gets on track"?
And I agree, great detective work.
March 2, 2008, 11:39 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Clue Number Two:
Phone call to JTA: "Did you guys know there are TWO Jacksonville Trolleys built into homes in San Marco?" Of course they wern't interested, so no location or return number was captured. However in about 1984, 2 cars WERE built into a shed outside of a large metal building sitting West of St. Augustine Road, between the FEC RY and University. When I got the call through Eric Smith, there was just a field littered with 3' square torch cut pieces. Still painted bright green and another bright yellow.
So it's quite possible there are another two in that area, in fact we can only account for about 1/4, of the 100+ that were sold for homes, sheds and businesses. So where are the other 3/4? YOU ARE THE EYES OF HISTORY! Open those eyes, take a side road, explore the areas, look for close bus like window patterns in a porch, or Florida Room, Look for the slightly rounded nose sticking out of a building, Look for ANYTHING odd about ANY building, check back yards and alleys too. Night or Day, I will roll on these calls. We simply MUST find some missing Jacksonville cars. Looks like we have two somewhere nearby. Can we find them in time?
Thanks for the encouragement, but I need the help of all our troops. I have a foundation that could save the NYC Car already up and running, tax exempt 501-c-3 with a 20 year track record. If you'd like to kick this off with a local drive, contact me and we'll let er fly!
Ocklawaha,
Jacksonville Traction Company
March 3, 2008, 10:45 pm
Re: Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield
Hey I was told by the guy I bought my house from that the enormous hinges holding up my gate are from the barn doors of the old trolley station in Brooklyn. He said he pulled them out of the rubble when they took the building down. Would anyone have a picture of that building?
March 6, 2008, 7:48 pm
TROLLEY SLIDE SHOW
http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/historicalslideshow.htm
Your photo should be in my collection, enjoy the TROLLEY SHOW.
Very possible, the building stood where the Skyway repair facility now stands. It was in the way of a new freeway that included a ramp right through it's center. JTA couldn't find a way to move the ramp so they tore down the whole historic building complex. The office building and power plant were across by the TU building today.
In the end, an "OH MY GOSH!" knee slap and a wink, moment, and the freeway was canceled. (it would have gone straight on from the new Acosta through the old rail yard and come out about where the Farm Market is on West Beaver)....
JTA then decided they could use the property for a car barn! What a novel idea!
JTA 1980 edition? @#(%)*&!@#)$ ONE AND ALL!
Ocklawaha
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