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The vote to place Red Light Cameras at ten of Jacksonville’s busiest intersection passed through the city council unanimously. The cameras are scheduled to be installed by July of 2008.
City leaders tell us the cameras will not cost the city of Jacksonville anything. They say the camera’s manufacturer will install and maintain the cameras for free, as long as the city gives them a percentage of the red light citations. Intersections to be equipped with cameras: - Beach at Atlantic
- Beach at San Pablo
- Beach at Kernan
- Beach at Southside
- Beach at University
- Beach at Saint Johns Bluff
- Butler Blvd. at 9-A
- Southside at Baymeadows
- Blanding at Youngerman Circle
- Atlantic at Kernan
Red Light Cameras remain a controversial topic. Numerous studies have shown that accidents actually increase at intersections equipped with these cameras. The problem arises when drivers make sudden stops at yellow lights for fear of recieving a citation, causing them to be struck by the car following them. Municipalities and camera manufacturers around the country claim that these cameras improve intersection safety and generate revenue, a clear win-win for everyone involved. Is it that simple though? The National Motorist Association opposes Red Light Cameras for the following reasons: Objections Specific to Red-Light Cameras
Cameras do not prevent most intersection accidents. Intersection accidents are just that, accidents. Motorists do not casually drive through red lights. More likely, they do not see a given traffic light because they are distracted, impaired, or unfamiliar with their surroundings. Even the most flagrant of red-light violators will not drive blithely into a crowded intersection, against the light. Putting cameras on poles and taking pictures will not stop these kinds of accidents.
These devices discourage the synchronization of traffic lights. When red-light cameras are used to make money for local governments, these governments are unlikely to jeopardize this income source. This includes traffic-light synchronization, which is the elimination of unneeded lights and partial deactivation of other traffic lights during periods of low traffic. When properly done, traffic-light synchronization decreases congestion, pollution, and fuel consumption.
There are better alternatives to cameras. If intersection controls are properly engineered, installed, and operated, there will be very few red-light violations. From the motorists' perspective, government funds should be used on improving intersections, not on ticket cameras. Even in instances where cameras were shown to decrease certain types of accidents, they increased other accidents. Simple intersection and signal improvements can have lasting positive effects, without negative consequences. Cities can choose to make intersections safer with sound traffic engineering or make money with ticket cameras. Unfortunately, many pick money over safety.
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/ Will Red Light Cameras increase intersection safety? Will the Jacksonville City Council be willing to review the safety results at the targeted intersections to decide whether the program has been effective and should be continued? Time will tell for sure, but be sure to get your prediction in now. |
February 25, 2008, 9:27 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Are there going to be lights to run at butler and 9A?
February 25, 2008, 9:47 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
JefferyS - there is a signal there now, but when the interchange is completed in a year (or less), the signal will go away.
Which leads to my question - are the locations in the ordinance? If so, because of the above, it is flawed just because of the 9A / JTB location. If the ordinance does not specify locations, who selects them? Also, who will pay the private property owners to rent pole space for some of these locations? The State doesn't allow red-light cameras on state roads - so the cameras will have to be on City or private property. Does this come out of the out-of-town company's costs before the City's share? And how good a view of license plates will these off-site cameras have?
I do think the National Motorist Association is painting drivers with a bit of a Pollyanna brush:
There are better alternatives to cameras.
If intersection controls are properly engineered, installed, and operated, there will be very few red-light violations.
Most motorists do not enter an intersection where the cross street traffic is already going. But motorists do casually try to "extend the green" by being one of the three, four, or five cars that go through the "just turned" red. The lights along State and Union are synchronized, but people still run reds there, too. And, if drivers are that distracted, maybe they need to get a ticket or two.
And, yes, I am very concerned about an increase in rear-end accidents (see above).
February 25, 2008, 9:58 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
"Will Red Light Cameras increase intersection safety?"
If you're the type of person/city who puts blind faith in such questionable forms of information as "studies" and "research" and "statistics" and "historical precedent," than no. The cameras will actually increase accidents at these intersections. If you're the type of person who would rather trust more reasonable sources of information, such as a good "gut feeling", a fancy line graph or scattergram from a lobbyist, or perhaps a colorful cartoon depicting large sacks of money, then yes. The cameras make perfect sense for Jacksonville.
"Will the Jacksonville City Council be willing to review the safety results at the targeted intersections to decide whether the program has been effective and should be continued?"
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Once these things go up, they will only continue to spread. Accidents be damned.
It's a moneygrab, plain and simple, and if ever seriously challenged, I doubt it would be able to hold up in court.
February 25, 2008, 10:35 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
The red light camera lobby seems to like to include a video of a car running a red light and crashing as part of their "success" story, but that seems like a major failure to me. It didn't do a thing to prevent the accident. It's just on video now.
February 25, 2008, 12:27 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
You know it's a money grabber when the manufacturer of the cams only charge a percentage of profits from tickets.
February 25, 2008, 9:32 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
These cameras will never make it up without a change in Florida law. Currently, red light cameras are not legal under Florida law. This is due to the statutory requirement that a police officer be a witness to a traffic violation. From reading Gov. Crist's comments in the past, it doesn't sound like they are going to approve a law change. So if the City of Jacksonville is dumb enough to install these cameras and ticket someone, they will be paying those people back once a lawsuit is initiated.
February 25, 2008, 9:34 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
The city can install them and issue tickets that are equivalent to parking tickets, but they can not issue traffic violations. Also, the cameras can not be on FDOT right of way so they will need to find a spot off the roadway to mount them.
February 26, 2008, 4:18 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
I am fine with the red light cameras, but I do not think the City's Civil Engineers are really doing their job. In my opinion the red light camera is only another method of shifting blame away from the city and saying let's blame the motorist. Sure it will slow some down and make them think twice. The City of Jacksonville is growing and these cameras are not the cure. We need the Civil Engineers to step outside of the box and find better solutions for moving traffic and keep it moving safely.
I ride my bicycle just about every day and it would be fair it is really unsafe to ride a bicycle through some of the intersections in the Southside area. I complained to a JSO Deputy one day about not being able to cross an intersection. The Deputy's response: "Find a different route." Motorist are not stopping when the pedestrian walk light changes to white. Then only 5 seconds later the pedestrian walk light changes to flashing red. After a total of 10 Seconds the pedestrian walk light is red. We are talking about a 4 lane road. Most people cannot cross the intersection in 10 seconds especially when traffic will not stop or yield to pedestrians or bicyclist.
I am not expert in this subject matter but I can tell you somebody is not doing their job.
I have one question for the City of Jacksonville and the answer had better be "Yes!": Are all city and state employees and vehicles subject to fines as well?
I have seen several city vehicles including JSO off duty Deputies run the lights. I have no problem with Fire and Ambulance equipment running the lights, but off duty deputies and all civil employees should not be exempt. If they are exempt they are violating ethics by abusing their position and power. The city and state should be keeping track of who has possession of each vehicle. If they cannot find the person responsible then they should force the responsible agency to pay up anyway. Fair is fair.
Civil Engineers, no offense but you can do better than this. If you need to travel to other cities to see what they are doing then just do it and bill the City. I like riding my bicycle in Jacksonville but I hate crossing your intersections. Please improve this. It is pathetic.
June 8, 2008, 1:49 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
On weekdays drivers run the red light at University Blvd. & Philips Highway at least once every five minutes. Why no camera at that intersection?
June 8, 2008, 5:52 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Austin's 2nd. RLC when on line this past week I'm pretty sure. Funny that they are letting the public do the rolling (california Stops). If you don't slow down to a "Walking pace" you get the ticket turning right. Wow. What is Jacksonville's policy? They need to state it.
June 14, 2008, 9:23 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
I ride my bicycle just about every day and it would be fair it is really unsafe to ride a bicycle through some of the intersections in the Southside area. I complained to a JSO Deputy one day about not being able to cross an intersection. The Deputy's response: "Find a different route." Motorist are not stopping when the pedestrian walk light changes to white. Then only 5 seconds later the pedestrian walk light changes to flashing red. After a total of 10 Seconds the pedestrian walk light is red. We are talking about a 4 lane road. Most people cannot cross the intersection in 10 seconds especially when traffic will not stop or yield to pedestrians or bicyclist.
I am not expert in this subject matter but I can tell you somebody is not doing their job.
I have one question for the City of Jacksonville and the answer had better be "Yes!": Are all city and state employees and vehicles subject to fines as well?
I have seen several city vehicles including JSO off duty Deputies run the lights. I have no problem with Fire and Ambulance equipment running the lights, but off duty deputies and all civil employees should not be exempt. If they are exempt they are violating ethics by abusing their position and power. The city and state should be keeping track of who has possession of each vehicle. If they cannot find the person responsible then they should force the responsible agency to pay up anyway. Fair is fair.
Civil Engineers, no offense but you can do better than this. If you need to travel to other cities to see what they are doing then just do it and bill the City. I like riding my bicycle in Jacksonville but I hate crossing your intersections. Please improve this. It is pathetic.
They are not civil engineers. They are known as Traffic Engineers, and I doubt that COJ has any on staff. They probably just hire consulting traffic engineering firms when the intersections are initially designed and then forget about it, unless there are an inordinate number of traffic related deaths at a particular location.
June 14, 2008, 9:28 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
No they are more then that. Why don't you have somebody explain it to you because you apparently cannot read.
June 14, 2008, 4:04 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Are you a traffic engineer now?
June 14, 2008, 10:13 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
See your national politics thread.
You two try to be normal in public.
June 14, 2008, 10:50 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
The city does have Traffic Engineers. The City Traffic Engineering Dept. was abolished in the last Reorganization du Jour by the Little Prince, but the engineers are still there, in the Traffic Operations section (department, something).
I called to complain about State/Union being out of sync last week, and they said something had gone wrong, but it should be fixed by the end of the week. Last time I went that way, Friday, it seemed back to normal.
June 26, 2008, 2:31 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
The Minnesota Supreme Court ruled them illegal:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1688&m=print
Gov. Crist says their illegal, even when moved to a civil infraction:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1688&m=print
Unfortunately, due the falling State and local budgets, cash strapped schools that in some states reap a large percentage of "fines" are pushing for red-light cameras:
http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/local-school-board-wants-ticket-camera-cash/
The NMA suggests the below instead and has independent and State (e.g., Virginia, AAA of Michigan, North Carolina, etc.) sanctioned studies that refute the usefulness of red-light cameras in reducing red-light runners or accidents:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/alternatives-to-red-light-cameras/
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/studies/
Also the “Stop Red Light Running” Exposed As Corporate Lobbying Group:
http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/stop-red-light-running-exposed-as-corporate-lobbying-group-2/
What a piece of ill-conceived legislation!
June 26, 2008, 8:41 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
OK, so to clarify, upon running the light (oops) @ Baymeadows & Southside this week, I need not worry about a subsequent "nastygram"/fine coming in the mail? Are those cameras active? Are they just to monitor for traffic flow/accidents?
June 26, 2008, 9:42 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
If one of the streets is a state owned road (and both Baymeadows and Southside are), and you see cameras mounted on the signal poles, they are not red-light running cameras. State law does not allow them on state roads. I'm guessing those are something to do with controlling the traffic lights... or something.
When (if) the city does get around to putting up Red Light Cameras on state roads (and if I remember from the list, most of the selected intersections include at least one state owned road), they will have to put them on a city street or private property, somewhere near the intersection.
June 26, 2008, 10:37 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Is the city really setting a good example by doing some questionable things to circumvent state law? I think I remember a Peyton sound byte, on another topic, where he insists that he will follow the letter and the spirit of the law.
June 27, 2008, 6:44 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Isn't it about The Revenue, didn't the camera vendor promise the City a revenue stream from these enforcement cameras?
June 27, 2008, 7:33 am
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
Reading through this thread it seems like most here do not think that red light running in Jax is not a serious problem... WOW. It is a huge problem and getting worse. It is no longer one person "extending a green"... at most major intersections there are entire parades of cars blatantly running through reds. This seems to occur most often for people turning left on a green arrow. Not only is it a hazard for oncoming traffic but it is a huge danger for pedestrians and bicyclists. In addition... the runners are disrupting the traffic flow for everybody else at the intersection.
Running the red is pure and simply... selfish. Be on the lookout for me... I stop for yellow...
June 27, 2008, 12:45 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
If it's such a huge problem why doesn't JSO address this issue?
June 27, 2008, 5:23 pm
Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
JSO??? Today... at a light... uniformed cop in marked car besides me. Left hand turners parade past as our light turned green. Atleast four of em... JSO could have easily turned right and pulled the last runner over. Nope... JSO?? Hell... I see them doing it too!
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