| The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center |
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| Tuesday, 15 January 2008 | |
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On January 10, 2008, the FDOT hosted a public hearing to showcase their plans for a new $147.65 million transportation hub.
Under FDOT's proposal, the transportation center will consume eight blocks of LaVilla. It will stretch from the FEC railroad tracks, north to Adams Street.
The FDOT plan works around the convention center with the rail platforms to the south and skyway & bus terminals to the north.
The rail platforms are proposed to be connected to the historic terminal via an elevated walkway. After this weekend's shocking discovery, Metro Jacksonville believes it is cheaper to use the existing tunnel network as opposed to spending additional millions to construct this new elevated structure.
To move Amtrak into the terminal would also involve adding a new rail connection between the CSX A-Line and the FEC main line. Not only does this help Amtrak, it is needed for commuter rail as well.
This image illustrates the disconnect between the proposed Amtrak platforms and the rest of the transportation complex. If the convention center is relocated, it would be possible to develop a more compact and efficient facility.
The 22,000 square foot Greyhound facility will be located between Houston and Adams Streets. This complex will include a bus wash facility, a loading area for 18 buses, a layover area for 17 buses, fuel & dump facilities and the conversion of the McDaniel Building into a driver dormitory.
This map shows the location of the Skyway, JTA Bus, and Greyhound Bus facilities. The construction of the 95,000 square foot Regional Transportation Management Center and Skyway station will serve as Phase 1 of this massive project. The Skyway facility will include a 200 space parking garage, two bus rapid transit stations, a pedestrian plaza and retail space facing Forsyth Street.
The JTA bus terminal will include retail space, an 875 space parking garage, provisions for 16 JTA bus bays and an elevated pedestrian bridge over West Forsyth Street. Phase 1 of the transportation center is expected to break ground in 2009. There is no estimated completion date for the entire complex. |
January 15, 2008, 7:22 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
This is a step in the right direction but I am not crazy about the layout. It seems a little spread out to me. We have the oppurtunity to build something that the people of Jacksonville will use for many years. Let's do it right.
January 15, 2008, 9:02 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
I agree. The design still has such a "sprawl" mentality behind it. People around here need to think in the 3rd dimension -- vertical.
January 15, 2008, 9:16 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Maybe they should shuck the Convention Center behind the original Beaux Arts terminal,
and use the footprint of the exhibit halls for as much of the JTA or Greyhound facilities
as possible, or shift the Amtrack layout.
Someday soon build a decent convention facility at Commodore Point and extend the Futurama train to the new site.
January 15, 2008, 9:38 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
This city confuses me sometimes.
The solutions for the courthouse, transportation center and convention center are all linked, in my opinion.
1. Construct new courthouse on intended moonscape on Adams Street.
This moves the courthouse off the river, eliminates an urban eyesore and anchors the movement of government facilities near Hemming Plaza.
2. Construct new convention center facility on city hall annex/existing county courthouse site
This move would allow for the construction of a modern convention center facility in a centralized location with a convention center hotel (Hyatt) and entertainment options (Bay Street/Landing/Riverwalk) already in place. It also rids the Northbank of an eyesore (the courthouse parking lot).
3. Convert the Prime Osborn property into the transportation center.
There's enough space to do this, plus use a portion of the old terminal for some sort of transportation museum or a relocated MOSH. This also returns the site back to its original use.
4. Sell/lease excess blocks north of Bay Street for private development
The land earmarked for this sprawling transportation center could be used for private infill development, such as affordable infill urban housing. This will result in growing the downtown residential base (creates a market for retail infill) and a profit source for JTA to help pay for the operations and maintenance costs of transit systems, such as urban commuter rail or streetcars.
This four step process would result in solving the problems of several issues hampering the city and enhance the vibrancy of downtown by clusting complementing development together for a chance.
January 15, 2008, 9:45 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
One aspect of a convention center relocation is going to be the ability to expand in the future. A preferable, central location (like the Courthouse Parking Lot) is going to ultimately mean a cap on the square footage of the exhbition space.
That may not be a bad thing, since you will never match the size and scale of certain venues.
January 15, 2008, 9:52 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
If the convention center is constructed to allow for vertical expansion, then it could be doubled in size when the time comes.
January 15, 2008, 10:02 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Sometimes? It confuses me most of the time.
January 15, 2008, 10:06 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Lake that looks like a letter to the Editor to me. Keep it short and the TU will print it.
January 15, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
well it have my aprovle
January 15, 2008, 11:37 am
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
This is nuts - this is not a transportation center - this is a series of independent transportation facilities connected via a series of skywalkks.
January 15, 2008, 12:10 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
The major plus side is that these proposed facilities are much less spread out than they currently are. Blocks apart instead of miles. I HAVE to look at the positives.... but I'm still not crazy about the layout.
BTW, does anyone know what "Phase 1" entails?
January 15, 2008, 12:13 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
At least they are not tearing down the Prime Osborne. Kind of amazing actually.
January 15, 2008, 12:15 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
BTW, does anyone know what "Phase 1" entails?
Phase 1 is the Skyway and Transportation management office blocks between Bay and Forsyth Streets. There's no official date for the breaking ground or completion of the additional phases.
January 15, 2008, 3:20 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
What will the changes to that skyway station include, a parking lot?
January 15, 2008, 3:30 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
What I have yet to understand is why the skyway crossed over W. Bay Street. That terminus would have been a breat addition to eigher a more compact transportation center or an expanded convention center or BOTH! Then, even using their current plan, everything could be shifted down a block.
January 15, 2008, 7:50 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
I was at the meeting fussing with the FDOT guys... When I opened the first volley, you could hear the JTA crew stampede for the back doors.
BUS, it is ONLY FOR BUS,
JTA bus
GREYHOUND bus
BRT bus
"TROLLEY" bus (potato chip trucks)
They consider the Skyway DEAD.
Amtrak or any other rail is an after-thought.
The main buildings are NOT being planned to handle ANY type of Light Rail Vehicle, old or new, streetcar or heritage. They are NOT being designed for double deck buses, or any change in current bus tech. Roof clearance will NOT allow for Trolley Buses, or electric streetcars.
For all of JTA's "We'd like to do rail, someday..." (Blaylock at the DMU show), they obviously have not one dime to spend on doing rail "SOMEDAY" or "TODAY".
I have almost lived at the Prime Osbourne the last few days, over, under and through it. There is NO REASON, why the tunnels can't be used for 4-5 upper level tracks, ending at Park Street Viaduct.
3 More tracks on the lower level at the tunnel mouth, could be for Amtrak on FEC.
Light Rail, COULD come in on two of those upper tracks and dive under the bridge in a tub and about a 8% grade. The Skyway, could do the same thing, or come around back.
There is more then enough room for the entire JTA and Greyhound facility, upstairs there is plenty of room for JTA offices of Transportation "whatever". Even better, there is room for a REAL transit agency offices, and turn the current JTA offices into the highway agency.
I'd love to play re-group the buildings and try and build it all at the "JACKSONVILLE UNION TERMINAL" yes, I knew Prime Osbourne, forget it, sorry Prime, it's JACKSONVILLE UNION TERMINAL... FOREVER!
Ocklawaha
January 15, 2008, 9:27 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
I think the changes at the Skyway station include a 4 level parking garage, with space for shops on the ground floor, a "pedestrian plaza" facing Johnson Street, and BRT stations on both Bay and Forsyth streets. Don't know if it includes a pedestrian bridge across Bay to the Conv. Center / Amtrak station.
January 15, 2008, 9:29 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Nice post Ock.
January 15, 2008, 9:43 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Ock, how extensive is the tunnel system you explored? Imo, it needs to be saved and restored at all cost, regardless of if JTA/FDOT incorporate it into their plans or not. At the very least it would be an attractive spot for a railroad or transporation museum. My fear is that they eventually move forward with their plan the way it is drawn up and destroy the tunnel system in the process.
January 15, 2008, 9:46 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Is Union Terminal protected by any sort of historical designation? If so, wouldn't the tunnels be included as part of the station?
January 15, 2008, 9:57 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Its on the National Register and its a local landmark. From this image, I would assume the tunnel system is at least longer than the length of a full city block.
January 15, 2008, 10:10 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Hey Lake, I found a great site, that helps fill in some of the gaps of the old aerial photos like this...
http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/digital/collections/FLAP/
January 15, 2008, 10:22 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Thanks, I'm going to have to do a little exploring with that site.
Is this the tunnel entrance in the background?
January 15, 2008, 10:27 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
1943 2C - 206 has the Terminal in it.
January 15, 2008, 10:31 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
http://www.flarr.com/jtc4.htm
January 15, 2008, 10:57 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Hey Y'all:
This is very close. Lake, your image shows the main tunnel but not the boarding tunnels. I would love to know which of the side tunnels are left. We could access 2 and saw evidence of a third.
I'm planning to go back soon, as several reporters want to go with me. Let me know, if any of you want to go. Also the old FORD PLANT, let me know when you want to bust in there too.
Sorry about missing tonight, I was at City Council this morning and it went VERY well indeed. Looks like another meeting maybe next Weds. about 1pm.
Ocklawaha
January 15, 2008, 11:01 pm
Re: The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
Let us know when you plan to go back out there and to the Ford plant. I'd like to tag along, but I'll have to make sure I won't be missing any meetings at work.
Btw, how did the council meeting go? Steve had taken the day off to attend, but Diane told us it was canceled until next month.
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