| Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor |
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| Monday, 15 October 2007 | |
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Few people realize that Jacksonville briefly hosts the longest passenger train in the world, twice a day, 365 days a year. The Auto Train is considered America's most unique passenger train operation for many reasons. History of the Auto Train The Auto-Train Corporation began a unique transportation experiment on December 6, 1971, when AT-1 departed Lorton, Va., for Sanford, Fl., with 15 cars of passenger and their automobiles. Passengers rode in luxury dome cars while their automobiles rode in special ex-CN autoracks. A Louisville, Ky., to Sanford segment was added May 24, 1974. High crew costs, several spectacular accidents with the 58- to 64-car trains, and an unprofitable expansion to Louisville, Kentucky put the company into bankruptcy. Auto-Train Corporation was forced to end its services in late April, 1981. Today's Auto Train Today's Auto Train still runs its 855 mile trip between Sanford, FL and Lorton, VA, and it is fortunate enough to have all new equipment. In current Amtrak operations, an Auto Train consist is normally made up of two General Electric P42 diesel-electric locomotives and forty or more railcars (passenger and autorack), for a total length of a half mile or more. A typical train will have 5 sleepers, a diner and lounge for sleeper passengers, 5 coaches, and 2 diners and a lounge for coach passengers. Not only is this train much longer than any other Amtrak train, it is the only train on the east coast to use bi-level Superliner equipment. All other Eastern Seaboard trains use single level Amfleet coaches, which are over 30 years old. In order to run daily service in both directions, two train-sets must be used. They depart their origin at approximately 4pm, passing each other in the middle of the night in the Carolinas, and arriving at their destination at 8am.
In fiscal year 2006, Amtrak's Auto Train carried about 207,444 passengers, including 87,802 sleeper passengers. The train is notable, especially within the Amtrak system, for the high quality of its equipment and of its customer service. The train grossed $49,351,664 in ticket revenue in Fiscal Year 2006, making it Amtrak's highest grossing single train. With total expenses of $62.1 million, it is Amtrak's best-paying long distance train in terms of income in comparison with operating expenses.
The Auto Train heading north through Jacksonville, running parallel to Roosevelt Blvd. The auto carriers bring up the rear of the train. Passengers must bring a vehicle with them to ride on this train. Motorcycles, SUV's, and cars can all be accommodated. Rounding a curve gives passengers on board a great view of the train, yet there is no end in sight.
In the late 1990's, Amtrak began replacing its aging Auto Train equipment. Locomotives were replaced first, followed by the sleepers and then the coaches. Only within the last few years were the auto carriers finally replaced, completing the trains full replacement. Amtrak's Auto Train - 1990
Amtrak's Auto Train - 2007 For more information, visit Amtrak's website. |

October 15, 2007, 9:34 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
History, and an incredible lack of vision, or leadership in Congress and Amtrak have conspired to keep Auto-Train unique. Europe and other countries have spread this concept to the far corners of the globe, but we seem content to shuttle back and forth from Sanford to Lorton forever. Auto-Train in the Pre-Amtrak days, had the right idea to expand to Louisville, sadly they chose the wrong city and the wrong railroad. The CSX from (Jacksonville) to South Georgia - Louisville, is a twisting, beat-up freight line, with severe speed and lack of signals that hold any train to a rocking, bouncing, roller coaster at a crawl. Had they chosen any other route the corporation would probably still be with us today. The fact that Amtrak has never experimented with New York to Chicago, Los Angeles to Seattle, Chicago to Denver, etc. speaks volumes to the impossible budget constraints and corporate soul sleep in the highest places. Only JTA could do better at messing up a great idea.
Why have they stuck with Sanford, expanding it or rebuilding it several times when the Federal DOT originally proposed the service between Washington and JACKSONVILLE? Why not use real railroad hubs such as Jacksonville and expand to Chicago? New Orleans? Los Angeles? Sunset limited anyone? Imagine throwing some of those auto carriers on the rear of that beauty? Why isn't Auto-Train picking up passengers in limited stops up the coast? Why not Jacksonville, Savannah, Charleston, Fayetteville and Richmond? Why turn down extra revenue? Has this idea been "sold" to Cal-Trans? Tex Dot? Oklahoma DOT? IL Dot? Bet they would jump on this. Has Amtrak or anyone else ever considered setting out cars en-route? An example would be a Los Angeles - Seattle train, pausing and setting out some car carriers at Oakland, CA and Portland, OR.. What would happen if they tried this on shorter distance routes? Imagine this from Jacksonville to Atlanta? Miami? Tampa? Forgive me if I'm not excited with the prospects, they fly the thing out of "Sanford" so the folks in Jacksonville and Orlando won't have to hear it LAND! After all, it's what Gene Garfield decided back in the 1970's.
Ocklawaha
October 15, 2007, 10:25 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
I took my family on the auto train this summer on our way to and from Vermont. We booked one of the family sleeper cars. It was a great experience. My two young daughters loved the sleeper car and the dining room. It's a long ride, but the train travels by night, so you sleep through most of it. I love the slower pace of train travel. It's a luxury these days to take the time to travel through this beautiful country, rather than skip over it from one identical airport to the other. I highly recommend the auto train.
October 15, 2007, 10:30 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
i rode that once. it stunk.
all the noise from the train whistle blowing at every intersection. randomly stopping in the middle of nowhere it took forever. we would've been better off driving.
even more reason why jacksonville doesnt need to waste money on a train system, we already have one and its underutilized.
we can't even fill the needs of all the new developments that were supposed to come downtown. there is no critical mass in downtown struggling to find transporation. jacksonville residents drive because the town was poorly planned to support any public transportation with all the sprawl.
i would never vote in support of tax dollars being spent on trains or bus rapid transit. NEVER.
October 15, 2007, 10:35 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Would you vote for tax dollars being spent for new roadways? If so, why? What's the difference?
October 15, 2007, 10:57 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Uhm... Hightower... Amtrak and regional or localized rail/trolley are completely different.
I agree, train is not fast, but neither is the bus... are you advocating we shut down the buses too?
October 15, 2007, 11:54 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Forgive me y'all, I had some fun with this as I didn't take any of it seriously, after all, didn't the last Neanderthal die in Detroit, during the 1970's fuel crisis??? My friends, enter the realm of APOCALYPTIC CIVIC THOUGHT.
Very Interesting, all of the Indians in South America walk in single file lines, at least the ONE I saw did...
Baggage cars have large doors which, when open, are noisy and allow air and dirt to blow in.
Sleeping in the baggage car is always noisy, most people sleep in the SLEEPING CAR. The random stops could be controlled with a few dollars, unless of course you prefer that your engineer play chicken with a Million Pound Freight train barreling at you at 60 MPH.
Graduates of the Jacksonville School of Advanced Transit Thinking.
True, we don't need to waste money on any system, we need to INVEST it. The railroad that is so underutilized, is so crowded with freight trains that your Auto-Train kept having to go in the hole to let freights blow past. Hardly anyone's idea of underutilized. Just imagine how much faster and quieter it would have been had there been double or triple track and overpasses instead of crossings.
Other Cities have invested in BRT... They too were told it MIGHT be as good as RAIL, it MIGHT be as fast, it MIGHT carry as many passengers...but it hasn't!
BRT will return not one dime in development to our fair city and Light Rail has a NATIONAL AVERAGE of returning better then $1,200 dollars for every dollar invested. Every City with Light Rail that I can think of is "struggling" with a building boom of about 1 BILLION dollars. Jacksonville residents drive because the city was laid out along it's railroads and Trolley lines, and highway tainted JTA, is too STUPID to see the obvious. Sadly, their infection seems to be spreading.
Neither did these people!
Comrade, don't worry, with this sort of mentality, you won't have too. JTA will make that decision for you.We'll get the whopping 7% of development that BRT creates, and your hightower's will reach the astounding heights of 4 floors. As a famous Field Marshall at Stalingrad once said, "Advance to the REAR!"
Ocklawaha
October 15, 2007, 12:02 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
all the noise from the train whistle blowing at every intersection. randomly stopping in the middle of nowhere it took forever. we would've been better off driving.
even more reason why jacksonville doesnt need to waste money on a train system, we already have one and its underutilized.
so you're one more reason is that you personally didn't like it, or is your reason because of the underutilized jacksonville train system that we currently have, which is not this?
October 15, 2007, 12:15 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Great point BigBen, I'll stop supporting Light Rail in Jacksonville, the first time I hear of our Trolley having to go in the siding in Pee Dee, SC, to allow CSX to run past them. Like THAT will ever happen!
Ocklawaha
October 15, 2007, 9:00 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
im still not convinced. at all. jacksonville likes their cars. get over it. i was born and raised in jacksonville and i know the residents are really not fond of public transportation as a whole.
excuse me for having an opinion that contradicts your own. not everyone in jacksonville wants to ride around on your trains and buses. they're happy in their cars. why do you think everyone drives? the buses are there, people choose to live without all the aggravation, stench, heat and low-class standard they carry with them.
oh and the reason why the "hightowers" dont exist isn't because there isnt a choo-choo next door, it's because the housing market tanked. i live within a few blocks of some train tracks now and i'm so tired of hearing all that racket when they go by. I could not fathom people paying half a million for a railside condo. ugh. i cant wait to move away from that noise.
Feel free to rip this one to pieces too. I'm still not convinced.
October 15, 2007, 11:16 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Hightowerlover, no need to be convinced or "see it my way", just try and understand our fight...
Jacksonville hasn't had public transportation since the days of the old Traction Company. We held a reunion of the old Trolley guys back in 1981, with just word of mouth and over 100 persons turned out. The old motormen were even presented with keys to the city! It's easy to say no one likes the City Bus or the Skyway to no-where, neither do I. However exposure to a REAL transit solution, an easy in, easy out park and ride lot, comfortable seats, table, wall plug, internet, phone, restrooms at a price that is better then driving (which is now .70 cents a mile + fuel) and the City would come around to a new way of life.
Again, we agree on this point. True there are some that need the independence of their own automobiles or just won't give them up. But they're more rare then you think. Two points for you to consider. In the 1960's The US DOT stated "The last great stand of the passenger train would be to and from Florida, the passenger train capital of that state is Jacksonville..." This was true, the forerunner of CSX didn't even want to go with Amtrak until some big government pressure was brought to fill a hole in the system. Point two is consider Los Angeles, the most auto-centric society in history (I was there) suddenly abandoned their automobiles in record numbers when exposed to excellent rail and bus services. The rail offered is Subway, commuter train, and Light Rail (some of it on the historic Pacific Electric Railway Interurban lines, they have even painted some of the new LRV's into PE paint!). The system in LA is fine, I have always driven there, know it like the back of my hand so I wasn't sure when I too took the transit plunge with my family. We took a 4 minute drive to a commuter rail station, boarded a beautiful bi-level coach, sat at a lounge table, watched the fools on the Golden State Freeway I-5 as we passed them like they were in reverse. Pulled into LA Union Station, down a flight of stairs, boarded a subway, got off in Hollywood minutes later. Next back to the Subway, to a transfer station, up a flight, onto LRT and zip, Long Beach! Unreal! All comfort, all "new car smell", fast, safe, smooth as silk, cheap too. We talked and even played cards, some did computer work, some read, others just enjoyed the views. Really nothing but the talking could have been done in an automobile. For a Jacksonville native, that trip on 3 modes was equal to going from Fernandina to Union Station, Union Station to Orange Park, back to Riverside, Riverside to St. Augustine... All for about $5.00 wow.
No rip needed, good points and I hope, complete, kind answers. As I said, I was just having some fun earlier... Something I picked up while stumbling through the 1960's on the Left Coast. I'm also a Jacksonville boy. A long time railroader...from the business end. BTW, if your interested in train noise, do a search online for the trolleys called PCC CARS that were introduced in the 1930's. These "Presidents Conference Cars" could be ordered with noise dampening "PAPER WHEELS". (train wheels have a hardened TIRE of polished steel fitted to them, in the old days, someone discovered a thick layer of paper between the wheel and polished tire would kill the noise. Another interesting point is the last time I heard of them was in the tragic German High Speed wreck in which "PAPER WHEELS" were said to blame. One wonders if they are all gone or just speed restricted today??).
As for hightowers? I love em too!
Ocklawaha
October 16, 2007, 5:28 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
ah haha...
the reason I laugh gramps
I'm ready for BRT. How do you know it wont work in Jacksonville given our rich history of sitting back and watching the mistakes(that may have accidently worked) of other cities and the replicating those issues on a grander scale. We're not going to return one dime in development to our city, we're going to return negative dimes...the anti-matter of the industrial revolution chasing development away. Excpect closing in the North first, followed by the east. Later, the west and south will fall. Downtown was gone decades ago.
Austin isn't building new roads I don't think...they are just going to control the traffic signles with the rabid busses. Funny, busses in Jacksonville had strobe lights that controlled the traffic signals years ago--what happened to dat?
For real, don't you think a mix of BRT, light rail, commuter rail, busses, HOV lanes, tolls roads, along with carpooling as well as single passenger high emisson love effeciency SUV and retro designed american classics, hybirds and all electric and (I'll say the words for give me) bikes and walking works!
October 16, 2007, 8:32 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
i personally don't care what your opinion is, but i do care when you make arguments for your opinion that use incorrect statements.
well, believe it or not, many people move to jacksonville without having grown up here. i am one of those people. these people are just as much a part of jacksonville as those who grew up here.
other people may be happy driving, but i am not. the reason i don't take the bus is not because of stench, heat or low-class standards, it's because it would take way too long. from what i have found on jta's website, i would have to spend at least an hour on multiple buses instead of driving 15 minutes. i did, however, move after only 6 months of living here because i hated the 40 minute drive. i also haven't been on a commuter bus that had a stench or excessive heat problem.
the previous paragraph is mostly opinion. it was included as an argument against the statements that seemed to say that all of jacksonville residents want to drive and will not ride public transportation. i do not care if anyone agrees with my opinion or not.
October 16, 2007, 9:31 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
How can they know anything, or feel strongly about something they havent had since 1920?
October 16, 2007, 10:56 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
oh well. i guess i'm the only one in jacksonville that doesn't like public transit. i guess i'll just stop having an opinion now so i won't get everyone's panties in a wad.
October 16, 2007, 12:00 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
again, i don't have a problem with your opinion, just the way that you used statements that are incorrect or imply incorrectness. i don't doubt that most people (not all) will keep driving if better mass transit were an option.
also, thanks for keeping this civil by not using statements like "i guess i'll just stop having an opinion now so i won't get everyone's panties in a wad."
October 16, 2007, 2:22 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Oh Shit! I wondered who that was looking at my panties! I'm telling...
Ocklawaha
October 16, 2007, 11:14 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
yeah, no shit. I found an avatar for those avatar challenged among us. Notice the protruding forehead, small crainium, unusually long (front to back) relative to width...anybody, anybody...does this fit YOU???
October 16, 2007, 11:38 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
i appologize if the term "panties in a wad" offends anyone's civil qualms. i know i may have quoted in generalized terms in reference to the residents of jacksonville. but i never stated "ALL" because you couldn't possibly say any one thing about a group of over a million people obviously.
i'm not saying my opinion is more relevant than yours or anyone not born and raised just because i hail from the fair city. i'm simply stating i've grown up in this place and know what's worked for my entire lifetime.
i don't come onto this site to participate in "groupthink". i view this site as a means of voicing my opinion as a member of this community. having a different opinion doesn't make me an ape, it makes me a human.
i just think this city has enough expenses right now that they cannot deal with, and we dont need to be focusing on developing a system that will not be embraced by the vast majority of the population.
i have nothing but respect for everyone on this board and enjoy reading their views, but i just think that our public transit situation is the least of our problems.
and if you guys really want to continue to insult me go ahead, it's not going to make me stop posting
October 16, 2007, 11:49 pm
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The weird thing is, from a planning point-of-view, an integrated, well planned public transit system may be a big part of a solution that solves several of our community's issues. Affordable Housing, quality mass transit, economic blight, redevelopment, redistribution of sprawl, reducing crime in poverty stricken neighborhoods and saving taxpayers money, etc are all things that can fixed to a degree with good public transit. If Mayor Peyton really wants to back a "Big Idea", forcing JTA to integrate their BRT plan with cheaper rail, where feasible, is it.
October 17, 2007, 12:28 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
High: no no no...we do value your opionion and are glad you are here. I take the bus and taxis and cars and bikes like I've said the entire mix you can have in transportation. Just Saturday night I was stuck on a bus next to an offending passenge, boy did he smell. And the taxi I took the other night smelt of coed vomit; however, for the most part my mix is satisifying otherwise I wouldn't choose that mode.
October 17, 2007, 12:31 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
According to Money Magazine, Riverside - Avondale in Jacksonville is one of the best places in the nation to live. It has only a couple of failing points...
Number ONE?
Piss Poor Mass Transit!!!
...and if you think we are involved in "group think" you obviously have NEVER attended any of the citizens meetings or JTA dog and pony shows for their BRT system.
WE ARE:
"THE VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS"
and
"THE HAND'S WRITING ON THE WALL!" err uh Forum!
Ocklawaha
October 17, 2007, 12:35 am
Re: Amtrak's Auto Train: A Daily Visitor
My first home was at 1309 Challen Avenue. I love that house but had to move on down the road. Today, I wouldn't consider living out of the city. Reminds me of that Green Acres song, "Darling I love you but give me Park Avenue."
October 17, 2007, 1:02 am
IF I HAD...
If I were king of the World, I'd build my Castle right back in the middle of Grand Crossing. Maybe a house on stilts? With the crossing of the CSX - NS underneath and the transfer jobs from the FEC bumping around at all hour. Add to that a few Amtrak schedules and I'd be in hog heaven. But you see I like sleeping in open baggage cars, and think diesel smells good!
Hey Lake? You game for designing a house out of old reefer cars? Ah Heaven!
(I just bought that lot down the road from hightowerlover!)
Ocklawaha
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