| Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings |
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| Thursday, 07 June 2007 | |
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Recently, the Jacksonville Historic Society released a list of twelve significant endangered historical structures. Let's take a look at them and suggest a few more.
Jacksonville Historic Society's list of 12 significant endangered historic structures.
1. Fire Station 5 - 347 Riverside Ave.
2. Annie Lytle School - 1011 Peninsular Place
3. Grey Hotel at New Berlin - 4517 Irving Road
4. Lola Culver Elementary School - 580 Lawton Ave.
5. Old Brewster Hospital - 915 W. Monroe St.
6. U.S. Post Office and Courthouse - 311 W. Monroe St.
7. Old Federal Reserve Bank Building - 424 N. Hogan St.
8. Florida Baptist Convention Building - 218 W. Church St.
9. Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank - 101 E. Bay St.
10. The Seminole Club - 400 N. Hogan St.
11. Haydon Burns Library - 122 N. Ocean St.
12. Friendship Fountain - Southbank
See MetroJacksonville's solution for saving Friendship Fountain: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/372/5/
MetroJacksonville's Additions While there are certainly good candidates on JHS's list, a few don't belong. Not because they aren't architecturally significant, but because they are in the process of being renovated or they're simply not "historic", as in the case of the Haydon Burns Library (you can't be Mayor Peyton's age and considered historic!). Nevertheless, here's a few significant structures in definite danger of being leveled, sooner than most think.
Constructed in 1923, 310 West Church Street Apartments (Ambassador Hotel), is the largest urban original-use historic residential structure remaining in the Northbank. Its also the only one designed with large courtyards so that most of the 50 apartments could occupy corner locations. This structure's renaissance rest in the hands of the county courthouse complex's construction schedule. The longer our downtown moonscape stays, the stronger the chance this building comes down.
14. Mount Mariah A.M.E. Church - 99 Oak Street This wood-frame church is one of the few remaining links to early community life in Brooklyn and the best preserved pre-1900 building in the area. Unfortunately, this site is apart of the massive Brooklyn Park infill development. While that development is something that will really benefit the urban community, its never a bad idea to incorporate a little history, in the process.
15. Dance Warehouse / Brooklyn's Park Street The Dance Warehouse occupies a small 1920's era brick commercial building, on the corner of Park & Price Street. Will small in scale, it's exterior detailing work is pretty unique in the urban core. The JEDC has visions of leveling this building and its neighbors to create a public park. There's nothing wrong with public park spaces, but there is something wrong with a public governmental agency that still can't figure out why it's so important to properly integrate public park spaces with their surrounding content. The simple solution would be to let this building remain in place, preserving the urban street edge along Park, yet creating an opportunity for someone to bring in a restaurant or business that opens up into the future public park bordering it. Not only would that save the city money, it would also provide a built in user for the public space.
356 Park is only one of many buildings along Park in danger. Some will claim, demolishing urban fabric is a plus, because it rids us of "blight". However, preserving this same fabric and incorporating it into redevelopment plans allows urban pioneers with creative uses, but living on a level below the Ponte Vedra-class to also be a part of the urban renaissance.
16. First Christian Church This structure tops the list. Downtown's most suburban and short sighted architectural firm (KBJ Architects), continues to dream of demolishing this brick building for a surface parking lot, despite already owning the gigantic and little used surface parking lot next door that consumes most of their block. To make matters worse KBJ has allowed the building to decline into the condition it is in today and is asking the city to bail it out by allowing it to go against the downtown master plan to create another surface parking lot. We've destroyed too much of our past already and the building is not in danger of falling in on itself. It's time to tell its irresponsible land owners to take that request and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Ennis Davis, a local Urban Land Planner, Graduate Architect and Metro Jacksonville contributor. |



June 7, 2007, 1:36 pm
Aside from it's history, there is nothing special about the Seminole Club building.
June 7, 2007, 2:57 pm
Seminole Club Building....
The same goes for Mount Vernon (Alexandria, VA) and the Lorraine Motel (Memphis, TN). However, there is one significant fact that separates it from the other endangered buildings shown here. It's owned by Chris Hionides. That means it has a snowball's chance in hell of seeing anything positive happen with it soon.
Lorraine Motel
June 8, 2007, 12:24 am
Seminole Club is not Mount Vernon or the Lorraine Motel
Stop fooling yourself and be realistic. Ask 100 people in Jacksonville what the Seminole Club is and 100 will tell you "I duh know". It does not carry the historical signifigance of the two buildings you mentioned.
June 8, 2007, 12:25 am
That Florida Baptist Convention Building is hideous looking.
June 8, 2007, 3:32 am
So what's you're point?
No one claimed it has the same historical signifigance as those buildings. However, it is one of downtown's most endangered historic buildings and it's history is unique locally.
Again, aside from their history, there's nothing architecturally unique about neither Mount Vernon or the Lorraine Motel. For example, you'll find several Lorraine Motel styled buildings on Philips Hwy. I'd also wager that if you asked most Jacksonvillians about them and the Seminole Club, the answer towards each would be exactly the same...."I duh know".
June 9, 2007, 12:40 pm
Sayonara!
#16 wasn't historic either. since peyton was born before that church was built, right Ennis? You and your crew are just choosing to think that because you have some grudge. You don't have enough information about the subject to keep riding them like you have been. Anyway it's too late because the church is coming down right now. and also, I'd be careful if I were you with the slander, being a graduate architect and all...btw..what does that mean? That you are trained to stay up til 3:30am writing blogs about other architects? Come on. You really need a girlfriend or something to better occupy your time. Ciao...
June 9, 2007, 2:07 pm
piranesi
dont be ridiculous.
The Church is significant if only because it is part of the rump end of buildings we have downtown that are historic at all, largely due to the extremely tacky structures erected by the firm that wants it destroyed.
And might I suggest that if you expect other people to be educated on the matters which they choose to address, that you also observe the same standard. Slander has an actual meaning, incidentally. Try looking it up.
Saying that the stapled together neo modernist ethic that has driven much of the aesthetic in this city is tacky is not only not slanderous, but also an expression of truth to power.
Additionally, just because people are unaware of the history behind the buildings in the downtown has nothing to do with whether or not they are significant.
It is actually a commentary on what a pisspoor job we have done in preserving ANY of our history or heritage.
And I would lay a solid bet to anyone on this forum that a simply poll would clear the issue up immediately.
The average Jacksonvillian, given the choice between tearing down a building like the Seminole Club or a building like the new office campuses that are springing up downtown in all of their salmon and beige colored prefab wonder would gladly spring for the dynamite on the campuses and then spend a year dreaming about the best uses for the seminole club.
To suggest otherwise is rubbish.
June 9, 2007, 2:11 pm
Piranesi
Are you the K, B or J in KBJ?
June 9, 2007, 2:50 pm
That Florida Baptist Convention Building is hideous looking.
The FL Baptist Bldg is IMO a fairly significant structure which was designed by Klutho, I believe. I like the brick facade and I think it has great potential for adaptive reuse. It would be nice as either offices or apartments in my view. I suppose you think the old Haydon Burns Library is good looking too.
June 9, 2007, 6:00 pm
^^^Right on. As far as FL Bapt Bldg being hideous (Eric quote), black boarded-up windows, and a dirty facade will do that to a building. Like RG said, I think that it has great potential.
June 12, 2007, 10:50 am
324 n. broad street
built immediately after the fire, 324 is a amazingly intact livery stable, aquired by tax arrears by the city in 1994. after the aquiestion(sic) the city dissappeared and its roof nearly collapsed. convenient locale for vagrants. city insisted its value of over $300,000, but the building needs 400 gs in renovation just to make code.
June 12, 2007, 1:08 pm
Some thoughts
The Ambassador Hotel has a plaque showing campaign headquarters for the Claude Pepper-George Smathers Senate race in the early 50's.
If there is a use or reuse for old buildings, every attempt should be made to save them with facades intact. However, sometimes the economic life of a building has come to an end. For example, removing asbestos may be too costly etc.
In that case, the Historical society and the library should make an effort to photo document the building before it is demolished. The state archives has one of the Seminole busts from the Seminolle hotel , for example. Sometimes, you just have to move on. If you got to York England, and to the York Minster, you find, inside a current Church of England, below that the remains of a Saxon church, below that the remains of Viking occupation, and below that, the remains of Roman occupation.
It is nice to save buildings if you can, if it makes economic sense. For example, the downtown Morroco temple, the Elks club, and Snyder Church(which has the potential to make economic sense). If not, make a record, and let the city move on.
June 13, 2007, 6:09 am
If the buildings cannot be reused for good reasons, move on with them
Somehow, the Rhodes building was missing from the discussion. Perhaps because it was torn down to make way for the new Library complex, so that land is being used once again for all of the right reasons. If the Seminole Club just sits and deteriorates, someone will knock it down and do something more with the location and the parking lot next to it. There is no reason to keep a building, just to keep it for historical sake, use it for a public or private purpose. Empty buildings should either be torn down or reused, Laura Trio, BBI building, Haverty's buildings all come to mind.
June 16, 2007, 8:00 am
RE: Pirenesi....LMAO!
While, it looks like I landed a right hook to Pirenesi's jaw.
While if it makes him/her feel any better, I meant what I said and I'll gladly say it again...
What KBJ has done is an injustice to the city and reeks of short sightedness.
Anyway, over the past week, I've been in Charlotte, Charleston, WV, Columbus, OH, Detroit and Toronto. Its been amazing to see how these places have dealt with many of the same topics we're discussing right here. I'm loaded with photos, so the upcoming weeks should create a lot of debate and dialouge about the direction of our city, in regards to urbanism.
June 18, 2007, 12:29 pm
Residental growth is bad 4 downtown!
residential growth is bad in the minds of those who control downtown development; residents will only complain for services needed to sustain urban living. the parking lots are a economic disaster w/o the public projects mainly county couryhouse (still projected) and other commerical office space where both workers and customers vacate after 500pm, m-f--- the loss of 1st christ church to public parking---eviction of boomtown nightclub,ect this should put notice to all that those in power not the least of which is jedc, are not making these choices by stupidity, but to maintain personal corporate profit. which will be impaired by residental growth downtown, Believe it!
July 8, 2007, 2:52 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
First Christian Church is no longer an endangered structure. It was put out of its misery:
July 8, 2007, 5:03 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
I passed by the site yesterday. One can't help but notice that the Porter House looks pretty suburban and lonely on that block. Any update on KBJ's plans? Will they pave a new parking lot or will they just park on the dirt?
July 9, 2007, 4:49 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
I'd like to clear up some basic misconceptions about a building's historical significance or value as best I can. I'm very wordy, and I'm going to be unapologetic about it today! To summarize the following mindnumbing sludge: a building doesn't have to be unique or special to warrant preservation.
1) If you look at the national register, state registers, and local registers of historic sites, each have similar criteria for evaluation of importance that are more complex than simply "architectural" or "historical."
Jacksonville's Local Historic Designation Process
National Register Criteria for Evaluation
And though preservation isn't just putting a site on a list, similar considerations should be used for evaluating the significance of any historic structure or site before action is to alter the site, be that nat'l/state/local register nomination, demolition, preservation/restoration/rehabilitation/reconstruction, and my biggest pet peeve: neglect! Economics should NOT be the only determining factor in every case. And by default, in our capitalist society, significance surely never is the only determining factor.
2) A building's significance is about connections and context, not merely popularity, general public knowledge/opinion/values at a given time (such as the present). Whether the general local public at a given time knows anything about a certain building or site is really separate from its connections to historical figures, events, trends, cultures, the contextual landscape, and the language of architecture, as well as its popularity and prominence in light of differing public values in the past and/or future.
For a broader, more philosophical view, the following are excerpts from a presentation by Marc Laenen, director of the Provincial Center of Cultural Heritage in Limburg, Belgium, in March, 2007 at the second conference of the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) International Scientific Committee on Theory and Philosophy of Conservation and Restoration, good grief this is a long name! in Florence, Italy. Keep in mind parts of this suffer from poor translation or transcription. Also keep in mind that while we say "historic" and "preservation," Europeans tend to use the words "heritage" and "conservation" with the same basic meanings. Go here to read the full article: http://www.fondazione-delbianco.org/seminari/progetti_prof/progview.asp?id=258
‘Considerations about criteria for heritage values continuity’
Most of the charters, recommendations and publications consider heritage values as the core for the understanding of the ‘significance of the place’ and as the basis for conservation concepts and practice. It is commonly accepted that conservation in living heritage areas is to be understood as the management of creative change of values within a process of continuity.
In several publications heritage values are identified and clustered into substantive qualities (historic, aesthetic, environmental, social, associative …. values) and use-values (monetary, functional … values). They are categories, results from human thought, defined within cultural contexts in time and space attributed to heritage resources and adopted or to be adopted by the members of the living communities. They are complex, interwoven with other values, present in the fabric of historic towns villages and landscapes and shape the identity, the specific character of the place that we intend to preserve. Methods to identify and assess heritage values leading to statements of significance and management plans exist. They are not confined to immovable heritage but apply as well for movable and intangible heritage. These values and their appraisal change over time We experienced in the last decades value shifts, expansions, new interpretations, re – valuation and ‘de-valuation’.
Immovable heritage appraisal was based on artistic or historic values in the XIXth century. Only in the seventies of the XXth centuries environmental, social and associative values where included. The notion ‘heritage’ has been expanded in time, thematic areas (vernacular architecture, historic towns and villages, cultural landscape, intangible heritage) and approaches such as integrated conservation..
Analyses of the fabric heritage sites reveals, the reasons why changes where introduced and the substantial social cultural and spatial consequences they caused. This way a lot of heritage was lost
In the province we develop Masterplans for unlocking heritage values for the local population and their visitors. In the fertile region of Haspengouw a first Actionplan has been drafted. Haspengouw is an open field landscape still reflecting the feudal social systems in the structure of landscape , the settlements, the fields, the castles and manor houses with their dependences .They still structure the landscape today. The main objective of the programme is to strengthen and ensure the continuity of the character of this cultural landscape trough the dynamic conservation or development and unlocking of its heritage values for the local population in the first, and to their visitors in the second place within regional development. By unlocking we understand offering a broad heritage experience in several fields of development: economy ( tourism ),cultural development , education, environmental care and planning ….
While dealing with this regional programme we where confronted with the question whether absolute universal objective and therefore ever lasting values exist or heritage valuing is in principle a relative assessment, relative in time and space, relative to other values and interests and is a social attribution of qualities to heritage resources that gives them a value for us today and here and maybe for others tomorrow. We understood that we had to focus and that value judgement had to be based on knowledge, supported by authoritative documentation by multidisciplinary research and that the experience of heritage values needed a strategy for communication. .
Using criteria in value judgment seemed helpful to identify relative importance and the power of heritage resources for unlocking policies but that it was exclusive for less sexy heritage issues. In addition to that the sum of positive points does not offer a comprehensive understanding of the significance of the site, which is much more complex due to interests sensitivities and values of different stake holders.
Therefore a prudent, respectful, sensitive attitude with as little as possible drastic and with reversible interventions on the resources seemed a more appropriate approach. It is based on the consciousness of our shared responsibility as temporary owners or ‘managers’ of heritage and on solidarity with mankind: future generations as well as our predecessors. All input is to be considered within global ethics.
Unfortunately we don’t have qualitative criteria yet to measure heritage conservation impact in sustainable human development which would guide us in our value judgements as our colleagues in environmental care have. This is in my view one of the priorities for research in heritage conservation for the next years.
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...the local population, which is our first target audience, experiences its heritage globally as a something holistic, not segmented into objects, buildings, customs and stories as some administrations in Europe still do. Hence the need for all heritage sectors to forge synergies in development programmes.
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...all heritage, including immaterial heritage, is situated somewhere. Cultural landscapes are heritage context and have become heritage themselves, subject to development. In this contextual approach, we meet our partners from environment, culture, economy, education and planning, who are working in the same cultural or heritage landscapes
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Again, the full article is here: http://www.fondazione-delbianco.org/seminari/progetti_prof/progview.asp?id=258
Basically, I think what many people recognize but don't express in so many words is that a building is not simply isolated in time and space and must not be ignored in the context of the heritage of the district or city as a whole, therefor its individual significance can be almost nil and people are nonetheless justified in calling for its preservation. People seem to understand that it's ethically questionable to demolish a whole district or town or city and replace it with something entirely new, even if the context - the heritage of the nation or globe - is barely scathed. This is because a district, town, or city has a heritage, a history, that is worth preserving in and of itself. Yet, when it comes to individual buildings in the context of the city, people are too quick to write off their destruction as no intangible loss at all! However, it is the very loss of numerous individual buildings that amount to the destruction or near destruction of a district, town, or city and thus the heritage of not just the individual buildings, but the context from which they are inseparable.
[/soapbox]
August 6, 2007, 9:15 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
i'm against demolishing buildings in general.
i used to live in a building that basically looked like a couple of blocks stacked together. it was a shoe factory, then a baby carriage factory. if there's anything insignificant historically, it's probably a factory. the most architecturally significant feature of the building itself (an entrance that wasn't brick and had an engraving i can't remember) was facing an alley. about 10-15 years ago, a wall fell of it onto the highway next to it, but instead of being demolished, they repaired it and eventually it was restored and turned into 100+ loft apartments with a wonderful downtown skyline (it was about 0.5 miles south of the rest of the skyline).
to me, it's not about being necessarily historically significant, it's about urban living and reusing the buildings that we have. luckily for my former city (st. louis), there was a very large amount of old buildings that were sitting empty and not being knocked down. many of them were very basic looking and not in good shape. the st. louis brewery (makes schlafly beer) started in a downtown building where the sun could apparently be seen shining through the roof from the basement in 1991, years before the loft-district boom that hit there.
this might sound like a bad idea to others, but i think that considering how downtown seems to be growing, it'd be better to save the buildings that aren't in good shape for later if they're not financially worth renovating at the moment. especially considering the fact that demolished buildings apparently end up as surface parking, or less. if newer buildings actually are built, the older buildings will look more and more out of place and i believe there will be a bigger push to demolish the old buildings.
btw, i find the old library extremely ugly, but i was relieved to hear that someone is going to renovate. as far as i know, st. louis still doesn't have a grocery store of any kind downtown. +5 pts jacksonville.
unfortunately, i do not have enough money to make these decisions. i also currently live at the beach and hate it. anyone have an opinion on the best apartment building to live in downtown? give me a private message.
August 6, 2007, 10:13 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Here's a cool one in Downtown St. Louis. Hopefully, whatever goes into 122 Ocean will be just as impressive.
City Grocers - St. Louis
This 2 story 6,500sf market includes a bakery and cafe serving breakfast & lunch
www.city-grocers.com
August 6, 2007, 10:34 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
hmmm....i never actually went there and for some reason everyone else gave me the impression that it was more of just a deli than an actual grocer. i guess these were people who were thinking more suburban. my mistake.
February 27, 2008, 11:18 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Regarding PS 4.....
It is my undestanding that develpment on the School could begin in as soon as two months. It is my hope that this, and particularly Lola Culver will be preserved as both have unique and inviting architecture.
Really ...All of these structures deserve a reuse...They are testiment to age and durability. A reuse for each of these locations should be feasible. Lets preserve what remains.
February 29, 2008, 1:57 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
LOL, I love the building huggers. Should we save FS #4, sure, but where do you move it. The land is too valuable to leave a fire station NEXT TO THE RIVER!!!!! Endangered buildings, well, what about the gutted and empty old JEA building at Duval and Julia Streets? That dump has been empty for at least 5 years. The thing that is killing the Seminole Club is that besides City Hall, the Church with its 9 blocks, and JEA, there is not much in that area. Peyton and his courthouse have some to blame for that.
March 3, 2008, 5:11 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Quote:
I suppose you think the old Haydon Burns Library is good looking too.
I dont want to get into a p.....g match with anyone here about historic structures. Seems everyone has their preference of Historical Significance. Personally I think the Haydon Burns Library is the UGLIEST structure in downtown.. but then there are probably alot that think the Annie Lytle School should go. Or the Park View Inn ( umm is that a historic structure yet? I hope not)
I AGREE that a building does not have to be striking or beautiful to have significance, and I think that if it is possible AT ALL to save and reuse an existing building such as Annie Lytle or the Lola Culvert School, they should be. Same with the Baptist convention ctr, or Haydon Burns. Lets save what history we have and not tear it down.. The Church certainly didnt NEED to be demolished, it was not in that bad of shape.
My opion about architectural fabric is , that we have so little of it from 50-100 years ago, that we should save anything we can possibly save , even if it costs more to do so. Cities Like Rome, Paris, London, take pride and have for centuries on preserving some of their oldest creations. Here in the United States, we live in a ..pretty much throw-away society. Its old so get rid of it, and I dont agree.
Regarding Annie Lytle....hopefully soon it will be removed from the endangered list. With regard to Fire Station 5 , theres little doubt it can be relocated somewhere in Brooklyn, seeing as most of Brooklyn has been demolished.
March 13, 2008, 9:34 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Annie Lytle should definitely not be touched. That place is scary and supposedly haunted, I don't think a bunch of retirees would want to live there.
March 13, 2008, 10:23 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
March 13, 2008, 11:21 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
There are videos on the internet depicting A/L as Haunted. Theres no doubt that its rundown look and overgrowth all over it certainly lend to it a haunted look.
This in turn ATTRACTS to it, vandals (for decades) Vagrants (for decades) and its latest enemy, satanists and people going into it supposedly hearing children singing , or some stupid nonsense , which is in fact ALL there is to that. If you go on to youtube and search for haunted schools , you ll see at least 30 videos ,, two of which contain A/L.
There is some paranormal site that has made a knock off video , which is simply pictures taken of the exterior of the School ... with some nice haunted music and narration to go along with it.
When I see it with my own two eyes , I ll belive it.. but I dont and never did belive School Four is haunted.
It simply ran out its life as a School House , by an expressway being installed in its front yard. Likely had that not happened, it would still be in use. Its unfortunate setting with a flyover ramp, still overgrown, dilapidated , overgrowth and disrepair , fuels this incessant , stupid notion of the School being Haunted.
March 13, 2008, 11:36 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Its all good Cooly. I cant stop people from going into the Building or saying its Haunted. I simply belive that it is NOT haunted. everyone is entitled to belive what they wish.
I am hoping to bring about a change to the look of the place. If the owner will allow it.
March 14, 2008, 9:00 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Seriously?? This is where we're going regarding what to do with buildings, paranormal delusions??? How about we try and turn this back around and discuss things on a higher plain, like through reason and rationality.
I don't care how ugly a building is, how old, or how long it's been sitting there. The reason one should not destroy a building is because it was put there in the first place. There was a plan, there was a purpose, and as long as there still is a purpose, we need to find ways to use what we have.
There is no good reason to knock down a building for the sake of putting another in its place. Buildings should not ever go into such a state of disrepair that they must be demolished, but rather it is up to us as the designers, builders and owners to take pride in our achievements and take care of what we've worked so hard to acheive. If we did that...if we had pride at all, we'd repurpose the buildings we have and keep them as a symbol of one's acheivement.
March 14, 2008, 6:10 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
I see a pattern with vacant buildings ...almost always the windows get kicked out and the grafitting begins.
Then you have satanists and rituals of that sort going on in them.
I am keeping close tabs on PS # 4.... and Im starting to feel encouraged about its situation. I now belive it is about to undergo a revitilization.....long overdue for it. and hopefully end the 30 plus years of vandalism and destruction inflicted heavily on the interior of the Structure.
I guess in that situation , wheter it had been grafittied or not, it would have to be brought to modern codes interiorwise.. so either way , the grafitti is hopefully about to go bye bye forever.
March 14, 2008, 6:14 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Regarding the Lola Culver and John Gorrie Jr High School Buildings...
I spoke with a person today from DCSB who oversees the realestate aspects of the School System.... regarding these two Schools, plus Lackawana. Lackawana is decomissioned but is going to be used as a depository.. . The other two , Gorrie and Culver will be proposed to be reused as special schools ...on the order of what Lackawana was used for in its last years... If they are not used as Schools any further , then they will eventually go to Auction. I mentioned to the person at DCSB that Culver is listed as one of Jacksonville's most endangered buildings. He indicated that he didnt understand why that would be , because as far as he knew , Culver is NOT slated to be demolished or removed in anyway...in fact quite the opposite. And that he knew of , Culver was in no way unsafe to occupy...simply an outdated structure that the board could not afford to continue dumping tons of money into...
So maybe it will be in the future , that these two nice structures could see a reuse as lofts or something.. Hopefully they will not fall into disrepair as PS # 4 has.
July 8, 2008, 1:49 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
I for one, am shocked that the city let the First Christian Church next to the architectural firm be demolished in exchange for yet another friggin surface parking lot. Sometimes I really lose faith in this place.
July 8, 2008, 2:07 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Does anyone know what the deal is with the CHart House on the Southbank? Although funky, it is a tremendous example of period architecture and the exact type of architecture this city might be inclined to rip down and regret later? Who owns the land underneath it?
August 6, 2008, 3:13 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Okay, I am a little confused? If we have buildings (especially city owned buildings) why are we not having non profits come in and provide services to the community? I know my organization is looking for space and would love to continue the buildings historic past.
August 29, 2008, 11:10 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
While the jury is out on whether the Annie Lytle School is haunted or not, I can tell you that it is very nasty in the inside from homeless people living in there and doing their "business" in there.
August 31, 2008, 8:59 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
August 31, 2008, 10:21 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
you are spot on! having JSO and the jail downtown is a boneheaded thing. The new court should be shelved and a site outside, but close to the core should be developed and a "justice" campus, JSO, the jail and the courts can all be located in a contiguous area and still easily accessible and this would free up valuable core properties for wiser uses, a side benefit would be to get rid of the bail bond shops, nothing says urban decay more than a plethora of bail bond and check cashing shops. The bus station should be moved to or closer to the Amtrak station.
The social service providers needs to be relocated away from the central core also, these places attract (please do not take this the wrong way) a crowd downtown that doesn't need to be there, why not have the social service providers relocate closer to areas where these services are needed?
Another thing that should be relocated is the education building on the south-bank, surely they don't need prime riverfront property, they too should find a home near but not in the core.
regarding the homeless, I am not up on what outreach there is for them, but maybe a carrot and stick approach is necessary, they need to be removed but they also need help, a shelter and drug treatment, medical and mental health services should be offered, and if the homeless refuse the "help" then they need to be relocated.
August 31, 2008, 10:11 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
you are spot on! having JSO and the jail downtown is a boneheaded thing. The new court should be shelved and a site outside, but close to the core should be developed and a "justice" campus, JSO, the jail and the courts can all be located in a contiguous area and still easily accessible and this would free up valuable core properties for wiser uses, a side benefit would be to get rid of the bail bond shops, nothing says urban decay more than a plethora of bail bond and check cashing shops. The bus station should be moved to or closer to the Amtrak station.
The social service providers needs to be relocated away from the central core also, these places attract (please do not take this the wrong way) a crowd downtown that doesn't need to be there, why not have the social service providers relocate closer to areas where these services are needed?
Another thing that should be relocated is the education building on the south-bank, surely they don't need prime riverfront property, they too should find a home near but not in the core.
regarding the homeless, I am not up on what outreach there is for them, but maybe a carrot and stick approach is necessary, they need to be removed but they also need help, a shelter and drug treatment, medical and mental health services should be offered, and if the homeless refuse the "help" then they need to be relocated.
Taking the bums away from downtown?? Then who would I run off the chess tables?? I need a bum to play chess MAN!! If you get rid of all the BUMS then when I go downtown Ill feel like Im in the Twilight Zone!! Look Downtowns are full of nooks and crannies, where are the bums gonna sleep dude? In a suburban sidewalk? I think not. THEY DON"T NEED HELP!! THEY NEED CHANGE!!! Anything between 5 & 98 cents. Stop picking at the bums man!!!
Where the hell is StephanDare when we need him???!!!!! Argh!!!
January 6, 2009, 3:02 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Rumor has it that John Gorrie Jr. High has SOLD -
http://www.jacksonvilleconfidential.com/2009/01/sold.html
January 6, 2009, 3:18 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
The T-U is reporting today that the Weavers bought it, subject to School Board approval, and may use it for affordable housing for teachers and nurses. I think y'all got scooped.
January 6, 2009, 3:23 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
"affordable" meaning HUD housing, it better not.
January 6, 2009, 5:10 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
If its targeting nurses and teachers, its great news.
January 6, 2009, 7:36 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
I think they mean "market rate" housing and definitely not HUD. This is property affordable to those working as teachers, nurses, policemen, etc. and is designed to make spaces for those people in otherwise expensive neighborhoods (although I think the need for this in Riverside is highly debatable). I own property in the area and will closely monitor the situation but I am almost positive it would not be HUD.
Personally, I would MUCH prefer an upscale apartment complex there. It has so much potential IMO. I am a little afraid that Mrs. Weaver (who is apparently the more liberal of the two) will use this to attempt to be a do gooder at the expense of the area. The only saving grace may be that the Weavers do actually live at the end of Stockton Street so they have a vested interest in making the neighborhood better. Note that I have no evidence that they intend any harm but it is a vague fear I have. Overall, the Weavers have been great for the City and are great citizens.
January 6, 2009, 9:25 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
the new term for it is "workforce housing"....that way it doesn't have the stigma that affordable housing does
January 6, 2009, 9:47 pm
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Personally, I would MUCH prefer an upscale apartment complex there. It has so much potential IMO. I am a little afraid that Mrs. Weaver (who is apparently the more liberal of the two) will use this to attempt to be a do gooder at the expense of the area. The only saving grace may be that the Weavers do actually live at the end of Stockton Street so they have a vested interest in making the neighborhood better. Note that I have no evidence that they intend any harm but it is a vague fear I have. Overall, the Weavers have been great for the City and are great citizens.
Yes, I own 2 properties less than 3 blocks from it, and lease a commercial space across the street, so it very much concerns me as well.
January 7, 2009, 9:52 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
The sale is a go after last nights school board meeting
January 7, 2009, 9:59 am
Re: Jacksonville's Most Endangered Historic Buildings
Interesting, last I heard there was a potential buyer willing to pay a million for it...and the city sells it for half that.
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