| Convention Centers: How do we compare? |
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| Thursday, 17 May 2007 | |
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For years we have been hearing that the Prime Osborn Convention Center is too small, out-dated, and isolated. Let's see how it stacks up against fourteen convention centers located in other U.S. cities. Jacksonville 2006 metropolitan population: 1,277,997 Facility name: Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center Facility location and hotel: LaVilla; no on-site hotel available. Facility square footage: 265,000 square feet of space with 78,540 square feet of exhibition space.
Austin
2005 metropolitan population: 1,513,565 Facility name: Austin Convention Center Facility location & Hotel: Downtown, two blocks from 6th Street Entertainment District; 31-story, 800-room Hilton Austin Facility square footage: 881,400 gross square feet of space with 246,097 square feet of column-free exhibit space, divisible into five contiguous halls. www.austinconventioncenter.com
2006 metropolitan population: 1,583,016 Facility name: Charlotte Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Downtown Charlotte Facility square footage: 280,000 square feet of contiguous exhibit space
Charlotte's convention center is a stones throw away from the heart of Uptown. www.charlotteconventionctr.com
2006 metropolitan population: 496,704 Facility name: Facility location & hotel: Downtown Chattanooga; The Chattanooga Marriott–341 rooms Facility square footage: 312,000 square feet, which includes 100,800 square feet of clear space exhibit space, 21 meeting rooms and six ballrooms.
Denver
2006 metropolitan population: 2,408,750 Facility name: Colorado Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Downtown Denver (16th Street Mall) Facility square footage: 584,000 square feet of contiguous exhibition space
2006 metropolitan population: 279,811 Facility name: Erie Bayfront Convention Center (opens Summer 2007) Facility location and hotel: Downtown waterfront; Sheraton Hotel (200 units) Facility square footage: $44 million dollar 145,000 square foot complex with 30,000 square foot exhibition hall and maritime museum www.bayfrontconventioncenter.com
Grand Rapids
Facility name: DeVos Place Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Downtown Grand Rapids; Amway Grand Plaza Hotel Facility square footage: $220 million 250,000 square foot facility, on 13-acre riverfront site. Opened in 2003 and expanded in 2005, the facility contains a 160,000 square feet Exhibit Hall, with a ceiling height of 72ft, at it’s highest point.
Indianapolis
2006 metropolitan population: 1,666,032 Facility name: Indiana Convention Center Facility location and hotel: Downtown Indianapolis; Center directly connected, via skywalks, to Hyatt (497 units), Marriott (615 units), and Westin (573 units) hotels. Facility also includes five restaurants: Espresso Caffe, Indiana Grille, Pizza Villa, American Deli and The Crossroads Bistro. Facility square footage: 725,000 square feet. Currently being increased in size to 1.2 million square feet, including 254,000 square feet of exhibition space.
This image captures a parking garage adjacent to the Indianapolis complex, featuring a local restaurant and a brewery at street level.
Louisville
2006 metropolitan population: 1,222,216 Facility name: Kentucky International Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Facility square footage: 300,000 square feet, including 145,000 square feet of contiguous, column-free exhibit space. The center also houses a Starbucks Coffee and the Kentucky World Trade Center.
Memphis
2006 metropolitan population: 1,274,704 Facility name: Memphis Cook Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Downtown Memphis; Memphis Marriott Downtown (600 units) Facility square footage: 350,000 square feet with 125,000 square feet of column free exhibition space.
Mobile
2006 metropolitan population: 404,157 Facility name: Mobile Arthur R. Outlaw Convention Center Facility location and hotel: Downtown riverfront; Renaissance Hotel – 374 units Facility square footage: 262,000 square feet of functional meeting space, including 100,000 square feet of exhibition space.
Daulphin Street, downtown Mobile's dining and entertainment district is a short walk from the city's convention facilities and hotels.
Nashville
2006 metropolitan population: 1,455,097 Facility name: Nashville Convention Center Facility location and hotel: Heart of downtown Nashville; Nashville Renaissance (673 units). Facility square footage: 310,000 square foot center with an 118,675 square foot exhibit hall. The City of Nashville is in the process of evaluating the need for a new $455 million convention center with 1.2 million square feet of gross space and 375,000 square feet of contiguous floor exhibition space. Minimum site requirements are 15 acres for the complex and 15 acres for future expansion. The new center would be among the top 40 largest facilities in the US to compete with other mid-sized markets, specifically Charlotte and Indianapolis.
Despite being significantly larger than the Prime Osborn, Nashville is agressively seeking ways to expand their facilities to compete with the other second tier US cities. This diagram illustrates a few of the problems associated with the current convention center. www.nashvilleconventionctr.com
Raleigh
2006 metropolitan population: 994,551 Facility name: Raleigh Convention Center (under construction) Facility location & hotel: Downtown Raleigh; 17 story, 400 room Marriott Hotel (u/c) Facility square footage: 500,000 square foot facility with 150,000 square feet of convention space.
This section drawing illustrates how a vertical oriented complex could be assembled, for all those people who believe a convention center needs to take up three football fields.
Savannah
2006 metropolitan population: 320,013 Facility name: Savannah International Trade & Convention Center Facility location & hotel: Dowtown riverfront; Westin Savannah Harbor Hotel – 403 units Facility square footage: 330,000 square feet, with 100,000 square feet of exhibit space.
Tampa
2006 metropolitan population: 2,697,731 Facility name: Tampa Convention Center Facility location and hotel: Downtown riverfront; Marriott Waterside (717 units) & Embassy Suites (360 units). Facility square footage: 4-story tall 600,000 square foot complex, with 200,000 square feet of exhibition space. Although the center opened in 1991, local officials are conducting feasibility studies to determine the most suitable sites to double the size of the 12-year old facility. www.tampagov.net/dept_convention_Center/
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May 17, 2007, 6:41 am
brewery parking
You can't look at the pictures without thinking that Jacksonville is way behind most other cities in this category. Aside from the convention center itself, what we really need is parking garages like the one in the picture from Indy. The city ought to require anyone building a new garage to incorporate some kind of retail or office space on the first floor (preferably micro-breweries, as in the picture), so at least people walking down the street can have the illusion that it's a normal building.
It cracked me up that Mobile's convention center looks like a church. God or Mammon? Why not both!
May 17, 2007, 8:05 am
That is required. The city just doesn't stick by its guns, and either allows a cheesy false facade, or they leave it unfinished, and empty, like they did with the Library garage.
May 17, 2007, 8:23 am
Great Comparison
The numbers tell it all. Jax is not even decent competition to much smaller cities.
As an FYI, the Charlotte Hotel is the Westin, which has 700 rooms.
May 17, 2007, 8:50 am
Misleading
Let's check a few of these sites again
1. Jacksonville - marketing people would say LaVilla is part of downtown
2. Denver - the center is not on 16th Street and is at the "edge" of downtown
3. Nashville - also what used to be the edge of downtown....stuff built around the new center
4. Savannah - who are you kidding....the center is across the river from the heart of downtown and not accessible for pedestrians (only water taxi)
May 17, 2007, 8:59 am
Pursue what's best for the city, not a "me too" strategy
Here's my issue with this convention center debate. Yes, the Prime Osborne pales in comparison to that of other cities. But that's not the relevant comparison or way to frame the issue, in my humble opinion.
A new convention center is going to cost, let's say $200M. That may be low, that may be high, but let's say it's $200M, and that the building will be "good" for 20 years, before it's obselete and either a major renovation or overhaul will be needed for the center to remain competitive.
What will be the return on investment on this $200M? Will new conventions come to town? How many? Enough incremental visitors to justify TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS?!? How long will these visitors come? When will the new center shift from being state-of-the-art to an also-ran in the convention center world because of new renovations or construction on the part of other cities? (Take a gander at Alltel/Jax Municipal Stadium - when it was first built, it was THE PREMIER stadium in the NFL; now it's 10-11 years old and middle-of-the-road, and that's after some significant additions and renovations).
Conventions are a hyper-competitive business. I would wager that many of the centers listed above, while looking nice and sparkly, have turned out to be less than ideal investments.
Here's the way to frame the question, methinks. If the city found $200M in the basement of city hall, would building a brand new convention center be the BEST investment of this money? I'm sure the hotels, parking garages, and restauranteers would love it. And they should. But would this money be better spent on (pick one or many of the following): more police, improved park maintenance, more/better roads or transit, more library books, expanded literacy programs, etc., etc.? How does the "return" on other public goods compare to that of the convention center?
It may be worth a few minutes to google the search term "Heywood Sanders and convention centers." Sanders is a professor (now at UT-San Antonio, I believe) who has focused a lot of his research on the economics of convention centers and has DISPASSIONATELY examined the long-term impact of the construction and financing of such public buildings. Just click on the links that pop up and read away. You'll thank me later.
With apologies to one of my favorite TV shows, just because Shelbyville has a monorail (or a convention center), doesn't mean that's the best investment for Springfield. Is a convention center really where the city can generate the best bang-for-the-buck for its limited capital? I haven't seen that proven yet.
May 17, 2007, 9:28 am
Pavers
I hear your point, but you are assuming that the convention center has to be paid for entirely with public dollars. There are plenty of examples of Public-Private Relationships when it comes to convention centers.
As far as exonomic impact, I think it would far exceed 200 million - The USS John F Kennedy (before it was decommissioned) brought an economic impact of $300 mill PER YEAR.
May 17, 2007, 9:47 am
Public-private
Can you point me towards the plenty of examples of public-private partnerships? I'd be curious to read those. I am skeptical about how "plentiful" such partnerships are among the centers, but I'm happy to be proved incorrect.
May 17, 2007, 10:06 am
Misleading? Check out the scaled aerials
Tufsu1, there's no hidden agenda in this article, other than to show a little information, comparing Jax's facility and location with a few randomly selected situations in other cities. If you don't like the picture that's been painted, feel free to find additional centers, similar informaiton and post them here for discussion.
Now for the aerials, comparing Jax to the specific cities you mentioned.
First of all, let me say, you're right. The new convention center is not on 16th Street. Its on 14th Street, which is just two walking blocks away. That's not exactly the same distance from the Prime Osborn to Jacksonville's Laura Street, which would be the closest comparable thing we have to 16th Street (which runs through the heart of downtown Denver.)
The aerial suggests you're off base. The heart of Nashville's CBD is a two block walk to the NW and the Music Row entertainment district/Riverfront is a 3 block walk to the NE. Also notice in the aerial and Nashville image in the article, the hundred year old urban building fabric that remained in place along Broadway, between the center and Music Row. That three block walk is lined with bars, restaurants and retail shops, not surface lots. This is the "connectivity" or "clustering" of complementing uses that stimulate synergy and vibrancy. That's impossible in LaVilla.
No kidding going on here, the Savannah Convention Center is on the downtown riverfront and is clearly visually impacting and within close proximity to the waterfront's tourist district, via water taxi. This would be comparable to building a new center on the Southbank.
Here's Jax's aerial, at the same scale. You can't even see the Northbank's towers in this view. Also notice the highlighted parcels surrounding the Prime Osborn. Even if we had the money and market to add hotels, restaurants and other complementing uses nearby, most of the adjacent land is already accounted for and won't be apart of the process. Its simple. Expand at the site, without seriously considering the idea of connectivity and how complementing uses affect convention centers and don't be suprised if business doesn't increase, as some would believe.
Nevertheless, I'd say the information is far from misleading. The aerials show the real deal. Maybe it's about time we accept we have serious problems and just adding a big box in the surface lot next door, may not be the answer or most affordable solution in this highly competitive industry.
May 17, 2007, 10:55 am
Prime Osborn would be more competitive
If we had a hotel directly connected, and of course, this has been discussed for the twenty years the Prime Osborn has been open. Will there be another site chosen, probably, but if the same effort is made to build a new center that is being made to build a new courthouse, it will be 2025 before we are competitive.
May 17, 2007, 11:07 am
Can we support another +400 room hotel downtown?
Is there really a market for a +400 room convention center hotel in La Villa, with the 966 room Hyatt already operating downtown? Just over the past year, the proposed Courtyard by Marriott (San Marco Village), has been put on ice and Riverwatch dropped it's hotel component for residential condos. Hilton may be ready to build two on the Southbank, but those will cater to a lower market. Convention Center's aren't open every day, so the hotel would have to rely on more than the convention center business. For too long, we've made important decisions on issues, such as this, without even considering the impact of the site's immediate surroudings. This has created a core, that despite billions of re-investment dollars poured into it, little pedestrian activity and synergy has come of it.
May 17, 2007, 12:11 pm
Excellent article, and excellent reply Lake
There have been economic impact studies of a larger Convention Center, and the numbers are huge. Jax can only compete for 7% of all conventions currently. That's pretty telling.
You have to understand that Convention Centers in and of THEMSELVES don't make money. There are fees charged for the use of the center, and they don't begin to pay the service on a debt that large. BUT, the money the visitors spend would be taxed. There would be sales taxes, room taxes. The hotels and restaurants that would sprout up around a center (because the ADDED revenue made the respective business plans work) would pay business licenses and property taxes. The airport would see greater activity which would encourage more carriers, flights, etc.
And THEN there is the private money made by hotels, restaurants, entertainment venues. Venues that might not even open without the ADDED revenue from conventioneers. These entitites in turn spend that money buying supplies, equipment and hiring.
Some of these visitors might return, or even move a business here. How many of you got your first exposure to a city from going to a convention?
The cost is high, but if there was no pay-off, would there really be so many players in the business? If a business (in a competitive industry at that) still had the decor and business equipment that it did in 1987, would you still patronize it, or would you likely find somewhere else?
It's like a businessman saying "I will never buy a computer, because it will be obsolete in a year". His competitor will buy a computer, and eventually another one in a few years, and they will STAY in business.
May 17, 2007, 1:21 pm
Good Aerials...but...
Try putting the Prime Osborn at the left edge of the Jax aerial.....then see what shows up at the right edge....could that be downtown?
As for Nashville.....prior to the arena and convention center opening, Broadway was the southern edge of downtown and was quite a scary place day or night
And Savannah....it would be comparable to the Southbank here except for one thing....there's no bridge for cars or people nearby....taking a water taxi ride is similar to riding the Skyway (and probably more expensive)...so what's the difference?
May 17, 2007, 3:32 pm
Prime Osborn + No Connectivity = Failure
You can shift the image all you want, but in reality it's still a SEVEN block walk (all seven blocks lined, with surface lots and parking garages), until you reach the downtown core (Omni Hotel/Times-Union Center). That's a huge problem that these other places don't have to deal with and that we need to focus on just as much as how much additional meeting space the Prime Osborn needs. To not consider how the center integrates with the adjacent areas, will only lead to the development of a substandard center.
There are two important factors being overlooked.
1. Edge or not, its only a TWO block walk from the heart of downtown Nashville. The Prime Osborn is SEVEN blocks, all lined with surface lots and garages, instead of retail shops.
2. Broadway may have been scary, but it had historic buildings still lining the street and in place. This allowed for the complementing support uses (restaurants, bars, retail, etc.) to set up shop nearby, creating an adjacent center of entertainment oriented activity.
Its much easier to lease an existing storefront and open a business in it, then to purchase parking lots (many of which in our case, aren't for sell), get construction financing and build a space from scratch. That's just flat out reality and one of the reasons this site is so passionate about saving our historic building stock. Nashville is a great example of what can happen when that stuff is left in place instead of being bulldozed like the area around the Prime Osborn.
Visibility! Ever see the views from both spots in person? It may be separated by the river, but that's still a superior location than a substandard center separated by SEVEN blocks of urban prairie land and parking garages. Taking the water taxi, a short distance, from the center to the heart of Savannah's entertainment and dining district is good part of the Savannah experience. Can't say the same thing right now about taking the skyway over SEVEN blocks of surface parking lots and garages, into Central Station, which is still not the heart of downtown's most vibrant spots.
Broadway Street in Nashville, connects the convention center with Music Row and the downtown riverfront. Unlike Bay Street, its three blocks of complementing entertainment oriented businesses along the way. This is impossible to do with the Prime Osborn because.....there are no buildings left for these places to open up into.
May 17, 2007, 8:41 pm
What about the tiny places... Even THEY are better????
No photos here, just more bad news for US vs THEM... I decided to take a look at those NOT so common places around the country. There are 100's of them too! EVEN THEY make us pale. We have a HELL of a LONG WAY to go just to pull even with tiny out of the way places! READ ON:
BRANSON MISSOURI (Okay, so it has some tourism, but it is about the size of Green Cove Springs! )
The Branson Convention Center will offer 220,000 square feet of flexible meeting space, including two exhibit halls totaling 50,000 square feet, which connects to a 23,000 square foot ballroom. There are also second floor meeting rooms. The convention center will offer a wide range of services, including complete onsite catering, top tier audio visual services, Internet, event management, business center and a single point of contact for all services. The convention center will also connect directly to the Hilton Branson Convention Hotel, a 12-story luxury hotel with 290 rooms and suites.
RAPID CITY, SD, In the middle of about 500 miles of NOTHING called the Badlands... Not that Rapid City is bad, in fact it is beautiful if tiny... and Colder then a Witches tits in a brass bra too!
Located in the center of Rapid City, the Rushmore Plaza Civic Center offers the very finest in meeting facilities. Surrounded by seven acres of park, delegates are welcomed to the complex by a quiet lake just a short stroll from the facility. Inside the Civic Center you will find a 10,000 seat arena; a 1,752-seat theatre; 150,000 sq. ft. of exhibit and meeting space; and complete support facilities for food services, staging, sound, light and all necessary accouterments to make your meeting a success. Outside there are 3,000 free parking spaces, giving you and your members convenient access to the Civic Center.
Oh there are some mountains nearby, but we could say there is a RIVER and BEACHES and better WEATHER and a MOUSE nearby... any more excuses?
The Knoxville Convention Center captures the essence of this beautiful region in the foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains. While you enjoy breathtaking scenery, the center’s staff will deliver great service and convenience in a technologically advanced facility. The Knoxville Convention Center, a half million square feet of space, reflects the alluring environment of the area. The spacious concourse designs present exquisite views of Knoxville and the delightfully landscaped World’s Fair Park. A natural theme reflecting the majesty of the mountains is carried throughout the interior design creating a calming atmosphere. Please browse our website and send us an email or call us to book your next event.
This one is really competition in OUR LEAGUE... The Nations 12TH largest City vs Columbus, Georgia! They too, rip us a new one! and that mouse isn't that far either.
Give your next meeting a historical look at the Columbus Convention and Trade Center, located in the Historic Columbus Iron Works. You’ll enjoy all the history and heritage of old Georgia combined with 200,000 sq. ft. of modern amenities within this recently restored local landmark. Situated on the banks of the Chattahoochee River, the Center offers a unique setting for meetings and conferences. The Trade Center is centrally located in downtown Columbus, which gives you access to first-class sleeping accommodations, restaurants and entertaining nightlife
Well we have a Hockey team that plays the "Fire Ants" and we have a Convention Center about half the size of the one in GREENVILLE SC! Where is Greenville SC?
The Carolina First Center, formerly Palmetto Expo Center, is one of the nation's largest convention and meeting facilities with more than 315,000 square feet of exhibit space and 88,000 square feet of meeting and conference space. With a $22 million enhancement plan underway, the Carolina First Center will continue to offer unbeatable flexibility and value to groups who are looking to expand their event.
Carolina First Center is a popular regional destination for corporate meetings, tradeshows, banquets, and special events. A strong area manufacturing economy, particularly in automotive services, has helped make Greenville an attractive site for related activities.
JACKSONVILLE LEADERSHIP? TIME TO PULL YOUR HEADS OUT!
Damn
Ocklawaha
May 18, 2007, 1:24 pm
Sad but True
When it comes to convention centers, Jacksonville is like the guy that still wears his Members Only jacket. We are not talking about Jacksonville against Chicago, Orlando and Las Vegas. Mobile? Are you kidding me? Our leaders are inept.
May 18, 2007, 5:08 pm
Convention centers are not about turning an operational profit and any myopic attempt to view them in this way will of course result in one not favoring expansion and/or relocation. The point of the convention center is to bring in business to the community as a loss leader of sorts. They City makes their money back in increased sales tax revenue, bed tax revenue and increased property taxes for the development which would occur around a propertly designed and sited convention center. This really isnt rocket science. Why are we stuck with small time (and minded) heirs as leader rather than visionary leaders??
May 18, 2007, 10:57 pm
YAWWWWWWNNNNN
You can't look at the pictures without thinking that Jacksonville is way behind most other cities in this category
Don't we have any paint that we can watch dry?
May 20, 2007, 12:05 am
Slow down and continue to develop an idenity first
I am a newbie to Jax but I have to say that I do not see a great need for a new convention center, yet. I am from the Midwest and have seen it all to much, do not build a convention center to say, yea, we have one too. There are much bigger battles to win first. Jax needs to develop more of the puzzle first. For example, Jax really has no nightlife, especially downtown, and the draw for conventioneers to bring their family along for a mini vacation really is not here compared to cities such as Tampa or Orlando. Jax really needs to continue to focus on the growth and development of downtown, South Bank, San Marco, Riverside along with others. I believe all of these areas will merge together into a very nicely developed area within the next 10 years or so. Given that, it would be appropriate to start looking at a new convention center in maybe 5-7 years. In addition, Jax does not really have its own identity, until that is settled, a convention center is just another building which needs city subsidies to keep it going.
With that being said, I have had the opportunity to attend events at the Tampa Convention Center and the Rosen Shingle Creek Hotel in Orlando. I have to say I am surprised to learn that the Tampa facility is not that old, it was not an impressive facility and looks much older than its actual age. I was very impressed with the facility at Shingle Creek and I would have to say that while separated into sections, probably has as much space as the Tampa Convention Center. When the time is right, I would like Jax to look into placing a convention center near the sports facilities and the possible tie ins. Also, are there any hotels in Jax that have large meeting centers such as the Rosen Shingle Creek? Sometimes these are better than publicly owned convention centers.
It is not so much that a city needs a convention center, but what uses are there for one. When looking at comparable cities and their convention centers, space, money spent, etc. are great comparisons, but are the centers self sustaining and how often are they used. What is the true economic impact? Jax is unlikely to compete with Orlando, Miami, Tampa for convention business, so what is our market? I do not know for sure, but the Prime Osborn may be just fine for Jax, at least until we develop into something better. Until that time, lets continue to develop the downtown area into what I see as something great, but it is still down the road a few years.
I will say that I have been to the RAM brewery in Indianapolis and have to say that I am surprised to learn that there was a convention center, parking ramp right there, they did a wonderful job of mixing it in from the pedestrian view. In addition, Denver has done a fabulous job in redeveloping their downtown and would be a good model to get ideas from.
May 21, 2007, 12:17 pm
New Jacksonville Convention Center
Hello all. It's your favorite commenter. All of you who have had something to say about this post should come to Burrito Gallery tonight for the Emerging Architects Gallery. We're showcasing not only our own competition for the Clara White Mission, but also work done by UF Grad students on this very topic. The were given a program for a 300,000 SF Convention Center to take up residence in one of the surface parking lots for the stadium. The scope even includes the development of a hotel adjacent to the site on the river. Come check it out, 6-9.
Oh, and speaking of Savannah (being a SCAD grad and all), the convention center generated huge revenues for the city at it's opening. While it's success has waned in recent years, it is again on the upswing. Savannah will even be getting cruise ship traffic thanks in part to the convention center. And while it may not be a direct connection to the historic district (i myself would not want that monstrosity in the heart of the historic district), the river taxi is widely used to travel back and forth across the river.
May 31, 2007, 5:24 pm
Convention task force looks to Tampa
A snippet from the following Jacksonville.com article...
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/053107/bus_173777883.shtml
54-member advisory group to tour city's flourishing convention facilities, venues
By Alison Trinidad, The Times-Union
About 30 Jacksonville business and civic leaders are touring the Tampa Convention Center and its nearby entertainment district today to determine whether Jacksonville should build a bigger center of its own.
Most of those who have reserved a seat on the tour are part of a task force assigned to study the city's ability to support a larger convention center, be it an expansion or new construction. The 54-member task force has been studying the issue since January, and plans to make a recommendation to the city by October.
Businesses, tourism advocates and meeting planners say convention centers generate economic activity in a city by attracting out-of-towners who spend money in stores, restaurants and hotels. They say the Prime Osborn, formerly a train station, is too small and too far from hotels and things to do to compete in the convention business.
The task force has commissioned a study to evaluate the potential cost, economic impact and return on investment of a larger center, but results don't come in until the end of June. So far, the group said Jacksonville needs more than a bigger convention center to drum up business downtown - it needs a better image.
"A convention center by itself doesn't suddenly make us a vibrant, dynamic city," task force Chairman M.G. Orender said in April.
........ read the rest at Jacksonville.com
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/053107/bus_173777883.shtml
June 1, 2007, 6:20 pm
alternative for prime osborn
why doesn't the city use the prime osborn for creating a new courthouse? by repurposing the prime osborn to be home to the county courthouse, the land previously designated to be home to the courthouse can go to a new convention center.
and, both the new convention center and new courthouse advocates can be happy.
June 1, 2007, 6:42 pm
Because this is frankly a dumb idea. You dont put the new courthouse immediately adjacent to the existing train lines in an old train station. You put the transportation center in that building to tie it into the regional commuter rail which is to come, the skyway that is there now and any other regional transit in place (i.e. buses). The Courthouse needs also to be multilevel and built from the ground up for security reasons. The convention center however indeed would be a good fit for the current courthouse/city hall annex site and most of us support that move. Just build a new courthouse in the moonscape that is the future courthouse site and do it now!
June 1, 2007, 9:39 pm
hear hear, RG.
hello anyone? Common sense calling.
June 4, 2007, 1:39 pm
One More Example
Since everyone in the urban planning world seems to think Portland is the place to be, its worthwhile to check out their convention center. It is located across the river (about 1 mile) from downtown. Similar to our current center, it is connected to downtown via light rail (a bonus is the trip is free). Another option is a 3 block walk down to the river and across a pedestrian bridge. There are hotels and restaurants nearby, but in a suburban development pattern. For those wanting the urban experience, conventioneers hop on light rail and go downtown.
I use Portland as an example to again point out that the exact location of a convention center is not as important as it might seem. Being proximite to downtown (like Prime Osborn) is a significant benefit, but the real catch is conncting the urban core via transit.
June 4, 2007, 3:14 pm
Portland's convention center vs. Jacksonville's
From looking at the Google Earth aerials, it's not the most ideal location, yet its still head and shoulders above the Prime Osborn for several reasons, including:
1. Light Rail - It has a direct stop on Portland's Light Rail line, which takes you almost anywhere you want to go in that city, including Portland's International Airport. We have nothing in place like that and won't anytime soon (please don't mention the skyway).
2. Rose Garden - Unlike the Prime Osborn, it's not located in the middle of no where by it's self. The Rose Garden, which is where the NBA Trailblazers play, is virtually across the street.
3. Pedestrian walks - If you choose to walk across the river, there are a series of pedestrian greenways to cover the entire distance. Its one thing to walk from the Landing to Friendship Fountain, via the Main Street Bridge, but it's another to make that walk through a sea of surface parking lots and expressway ramps.
4. Surrounding neighborhood - No doubt, its not as lively and dense as the core of downtown Portland, but it's not in the middle of anywhere. The streets are gridded, there's buildings on them (instead of grass parking lots) and there's a full blown 3 story enclosed shopping mall, with a Nordstrom, Sears, Meier & Frank and a movie cinema, about 5 blocks to the East.
www.lloydcentermall.com/
Both are a similar in terms of the distance from the heart of their downtowns, railroad tracks and expressway ramps. Outside of that, they're nothing a like, when it comes to surrounding context. Plus, what makes this such a premier convention center? People speak of the vibrancy of Portland's downtown and light rail, but you rarely hear them mention the convention center.
If we're going to have to pump money into this (either way) locally, why settle for an isolated second rate structure? We'd be better off, getting out of the convention business, taking that money and applying it to other needs in the community.
June 20, 2007, 10:15 am
Convention Center Task Force
A group of appointed leaders and members of the community have been deliberating since January.
This is the link to the last white paper released by the group...
http://www.jcci.org/convention%20center/april%20handouts/MSIWhitePaper4%2026%2007%20Final.pdf
It starts...
A convention center will not be an asset in Jacksonville without sufficient and appropriate marketing and market infrastructure. Success is dependent on setting priorities for developing an infrastructure that builds demand for working, playing, and living in downtown Jacksonville.
What do you all think?
Other information is available at
http://www.jcci.org/convention%20center/CCTG%20HANDOUTS%20AND%20SUMMARIES.htm
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